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I've heard a bunch of ppl bitching about AOTC being crap, but they only seem to concentrate on 2 things. 1. Anakin being a whinney little baby and 2. The lightsaber dual between Anakin and Dooku looking like a police raid with all the flashing red and blue.

Explanation for Anakins bitchy behaviour could that he wasnt trained until he was 9 and so missed out of a bit of training early on about how to control his emotions, but look at Luke, he didnt get "trained" (I say "trained cos he wasnt trained to be a balanced Jedi, more of a weapon to bring down the Empire, he's even said that in some of the EU) till much later in his life than is dad and he isnt a complaining every 5 seconds about his mentors. Bad writting? Anyone wanna field this one?

Just a quick thing about the dual with Dooku and Anakin, it was more arty. Yes? No?

Dorsk 81
No, there is much more ugly things in AOTC and in all prequels, IMHO.
The list:
1) the Jedi are nothing of the mysterious tampliers, they are more like the Spetznaz-KGB workers
2) the Anakin-Amidala love story is so poorly written, that better it was no story at all. Consider Han and Leia, 1000 times better.
3) the war in AOTC is plastic, like in TPM. Nothing of the war, no men die. Droids and clones, the first just machines (who cares for a machine killed), the second - biomechanisms, no one cares again. Nothing of the real war, just tons of CG characters slam and kill each other, makes no feelings at all.
4) the Dooku vs. Yoda thing dissapointed me much, Yoda is more like a wise man, not a kickaround ninja-turtle (sorry, but he looks exactly like this).
5) the CG. Personally, I hate most of CG characters. They don't look real. You can still note that Chewie looks far more real than Jar Jar Binks.
6) the shitty Binks again, I hope he gets killed someday
7) the stupidity of Yoda is overwhelming. Considet two moments:
- The map has been erased
- Very serious. Have to think about it.
And the other. Ben transmits. A destroyer droid walks into view. Yoda: "Ugh, something is not right on Geonosis, I feel" (is he too stupid to see the droid, or get that all in the room saw it?)...
And so on. There is so much bad about the prequels that the list of it would make a special thread, and maybe I'll translate that list someday.

The Binks thing: I've said it before and I'll say it again, Jar Jar Binks makes the Ewoks look like fucking Shaft! Ok, the Ewoks, maybe not the greatest species, but at least if you wanted to punch them in the face you'd hit their masks, but it you did the same for Jar Jar you'd find yourself hitting some plastic thing perched on a guys head.

The Jar Jar=Crap topic is as well known as the alphabet, so can we leave him where he belongs? On the key-chains of five year olds.

I rather think Anakin's behaviour is the result of the lack of a father's presence.

He was the typical example of "mom's little treasure". Of course he can't control his emotions since he wasn't tought so and it's understandable.

When he lost his mother his whole world fell apart, his emotional state reached a histerical level. Yes, it can be annoying but inevitable to describe his turn towards the dark side.

Yoda sensed - in TPM - that Anakin's fear of loosing his mother should be a critical problem.

Stas Bush wrote: No, there is much more ugly things in AOTC and in all prequels, IMHO.
The list:
1) the Jedi are nothing of the mysterious tampliers, they are more like the Spetznaz-KGB workers
2) the Anakin-Amidala love story is so poorly written, that better it was no story at all. Consider Han and Leia, 1000 times better.
3) the war in AOTC is plastic, like in TPM. Nothing of the war, no men die. Droids and clones, the first just machines (who cares for a machine killed), the second - biomechanisms, no one cares again. Nothing of the real war, just tons of CG characters slam and kill each other, makes no feelings at all.
4) the Dooku vs. Yoda thing dissapointed me much, Yoda is more like a wise man, not a kickaround ninja-turtle (sorry, but he looks exactly like this).
5) the CG. Personally, I hate most of CG characters. They don't look real. You can still note that Chewie looks far more real than Jar Jar Binks.
6) the shitty Binks again, I hope he gets killed someday

Totally agree with you!

Stas Bush wrote: 7) the stupidity of Yoda is overwhelming. Considet two moments:
- The map has been erased
- Very serious. Have to think about it.

That's not exactly stupid. Since only a jedi could've erased the datas that means a kind of traitor is/was in the Order. Since he got no clue who could it be it's understandable that he needs to think about it.

Meditate on this, you will...

I rather think Anakin's behaviour is the result of the lack of a father's presence.

Thats the typical teenage angst cliche. You don't have one of your parents so you grow up to be a "rebel". It's probably one of the reasons, but not an excuse.

He was the typical example of "mom's little treasure". Of course he can't control his emotions since he wasn't tought so and it's understandable.

Your probably right there, about the mom's little treasure thing, Anakin was all she had and so when she could she'd give him anything he wanted. It's not exactly front page news that spoiled kids can grow up to be a royal pain in the ass.

Yoda sensed - in TPM - that Anakin's fear of loosing his mother should be a critical problem.

You'd think that if Yoda knew it'd be a problem, he'd make Obi focus more on controling his emotions. He won't be making that mistake again.

Dorsk 81 wrote:Thats the typical teenage angst cliche. You don't have one of your parents so you grow up to be a "rebel". It's probably one of the reasons, but not an excuse.

It's not an excuse it's a reason.

I don't understand what you want exactly...?

You're looking for an excuse? You won't find any since it was filmed by this because of the above stated reasons.

Your probably right there, about the mom's little treasure thing, Anakin was all she had and so when she could she'd give him anything he wanted. It's not exactly front page news that spoiled kids can grow up to be a royal pain in the ass.

If it's not front page news - and of course it isn't - then everyone should have figure it out by himself...

You'd think that if Yoda knew it'd be a problem, he'd make Obi focus more on controling his emotions. He won't be making that mistake again.

Anakin is the first padawan of Obi. The only reason Yoda allowed to train Anakin was the oath of Obi towards Qui. The real mistake is that Yoda didn't train him personally, knowing that the boy has a "special" potential. (Highest midichlorian number...)

4) the Dooku vs. Yoda thing dissapointed me much, Yoda is more like a wise man, not a kickaround ninja-turtle

I agree totally. When I first heard that Yoda was gonna use his lightsaber, I first thought that he was going to use telekinesis to move and handle the weapon, while he stands aside relatively pristine. That would have been cooler, I think.

It's not an excuse it's a reason.

I don't understand what you want exactly...?

You're looking for an excuse? You won't find any since it was filmed by this because of the above stated reasons.

No, I mean that it's not an excuse for anyone, in general, not just Anakin.

Anakin is the first padawan of Obi. The only reason Yoda allowed to train Anakin was the oath of Obi towards Qui. The real mistake is that Yoda didn't train him personally, knowing that the boy has a "special" potential. (Highest midichlorian number...)

I'm guessing that he let Obi train him out a respect for Qui, he told Obi to train him not Yoda. Or maybe to help Obi greive for Qui, it was obvious that Obi cared alot for his former master after the Academy Award Winning "NOOOOOOOOO!".

SPOOFE wrote:

4) the Dooku vs. Yoda thing dissapointed me much, Yoda is more like a wise man, not a kickaround ninja-turtle

I agree totally. When I first heard that Yoda was gonna use his lightsaber, I first thought that he was going to use telekinesis to move and handle the weapon, while he stands aside relatively pristine. That would have been cooler, I think.

Now that would have been cool.

1) the Jedi are nothing of the mysterious tampliers, they are more like the Spetznaz-KGB workers

I never got the impression that they were anything else. Previous movies and EU keep referring to the Jedi as guardians or servants of the Republic.

2) the Anakin-Amidala love story is so poorly written, that better it was no story at all. Consider Han and Leia, 1000 times better.

Yes, their "romantic" dialogue was pretty lame. However, I think this was a flaw that a lot of people completely blew out of proportion. It amounted to only a few minutes out of the movie, and was not at all the focus of the film.

Also, their crappy love scenes DO make sense if you think about it. Both of them are inexperienced young people, especially Anakin, who's lived under the celibate Jedi Order. What do real, unexperienced young people and teens sometimes do when they try to hit on each other? That's right, they use crappy pickup lines which don't come out as smooth (and artificial) as they do in most movies. Sometimes they'll TRY to emulate the movies, with less than stellar results. Besides, I got the impression right away that Anakin and Padme's relationship is anything but true love. They're two desperate people, a celibate Jedi and a politician, who WANT to love, even if they really don't truly love. Notice how Padme didn't even care that the man she "loved" butchered an entire village. In a mere two or three years, their secret marriage will fall apart, and Padme's going to be running for her life (if not killed) from her husband.

3) the war in AOTC is plastic, like in TPM. Nothing of the war, no men die. Droids and clones, the first just machines (who cares for a machine killed), the second - biomechanisms, no one cares again. Nothing of the real war, just tons of CG characters slam and kill each other, makes no feelings at all.

I thought that was the whole point, that soul-less, manufactured armies had replaced normal soldiers, who think and feel. Cloning and AI has often been used throughout scifi to show the dangers of a conformist, unquestioning society. The Clone Wars, which should be disastrous, also lead into the OT and the EU, where both cloning and droids are feared and looked down upon.

4) the Dooku vs. Yoda thing dissapointed me much, Yoda is more like a wise man, not a kickaround ninja-turtle (sorry, but he looks exactly like this).

I thought this was just a fun scene thrown in for the fans. The EU has mentioned Yoda defeating Dark Jedi, leading to questions as to whether he could actually fight, which he never did in the OT. It was kinda silly, but I thought it was cool and wasn't very offended by it.

5) the CG. Personally, I hate most of CG characters. They don't look real. You can still note that Chewie looks far more real than Jar Jar Binks.

Some of the CG was passable (and even great), some of it was...not. I agree that there were times when they would have been better off with a guy in a suit.

6) the shitty Binks again, I hope he gets killed someday

He has all of 2 minutes screen time in this movie. Besides, he wasn't even THAT bad in TPM. I was a lot more turned off by kiddie-Vader (Yippee!? Dark Lords of Sith DO NOT say such things!).

7) the stupidity of Yoda is overwhelming. Considet two moments:
- The map has been erased
- Very serious. Have to think about it.
And the other. Ben transmits. A destroyer droid walks into view. Yoda: "Ugh, something is not right on Geonosis, I feel" (is he too stupid to see the droid, or get that all in the room saw it?)...

Oh come on, this is a guy who can't even properly piece together a sentence! Being wise but sounding dumb has always been part of Yoda's coolness.

Jim Raynor wrote:Some of the CG was passable (and even great), some of it was...not. I agree that there were times when they would have been better off with a guy in a suit.

Actually, most of the times they'll do it fine with non-CGI effects. But in some cases, it was necessary.

I don't get it.What is wrong with the Anakin Amidala love scene?Yes,I agree that the frolicking in the meadow did take place too long but IMO,that angle was played out perfectly.


Anakin and Amidala were playing out romance scenes from some girly romance novel.But that's the beauty of it,cause their romance is exactly that.And when it hits reality,its going to hurt.And we already see that glimpse when George protrayed that metallic arm at the end.

Yoda introduction may have betrayed the orginal image of Yoda as the wise mentor in the OT,but his fight scene didn't wreck the movie.Indeed,if we ignore the coolness factor,his fight scene actually illuminates the Jedi even more.

Here is a Jedi who can obviously fight,move way better than the younger Jedi.Yet,he doesn't flaunt it.He doesn't flaunt his wisdom in Obiwan face,he doesn't flaunt his power,he doesn't flaunt his strength,he is reserved and reserve his strength.He is like the officer you respect,cause while you know he's infinitely better than you,he doesn't use it to dennigrate you but helps you up on your feet.


If we are to go with my theory on the Jedi split,in which the Jedi Order becomes split between the Yoda clan and Anakin clan,then it fits even better.Anakin represents the new Jedi all too well.They are arrogrant,impeteous and they are frankly know it all asses.Even Obi-wan is tainted.Their actions on Coruscant.Anakin believes his power is enough to protect Amidala.Anakin jumps off that speeder.Obiwan jumps off the roof onto a hovering droid.All this speak of pumped up ego syndrome,and they're going to fall because of that.

Also, remember that Anakin is getting very mixed messages from people he looks up to. On one hand, the Jedi Order is telling him he needs to be humble, serve the greater good, etc., while at the same time telling him he's got more raw power than any Jedi ever. On top of that, Chancellor Palpatine is encouraging Anakin's ego as a means of corrupting him to the Dark Side, telling him how he will be the greatest Jedi ever and how superior he is to all the other Jedi. That's a heady message for a 19-year-old, and not one easily ignored.

Finally, you never see Anakin really get in trouble for his mistakes. Worst-case scenario, Obi-Wan smacks him on the wrist and tells him he's been a bad Padawan. Anakin slaughtered a village of sandpeople and the woman he "loves", or at least lusts after (and who can blame him?), and supposedly respects for her beliefs and intelligence doesn't even act bothered by that mass-murder, and in fact seemingly comforts him for the trauma he went through killing the sand people, as well as the loss of his mother.

Now that would have been cool.

no not cool it has no feeling like an elegant emotional sword fight. Which did not happen to me it look like Yoda was try to smack Dooku with his light saber instead of trying to dispense him with more diliberate moves.

His Divine Shadow wrote:

SPOOFE wrote:

4) the Dooku vs. Yoda thing dissapointed me much, Yoda is more like a wise man, not a kickaround ninja-turtle

I agree totally. When I first heard that Yoda was gonna use his lightsaber, I first thought that he was going to use telekinesis to move and handle the weapon, while he stands aside relatively pristine. That would have been cooler, I think.

Now that would have been cool.

I thought that too. Why did not George Lucas think of that ? It would have been a great.

Seriously, what is the problem with Yoda being a warrior as well as a teacher? Was Luke trying to find a "wise old teacher" or a "great warrior"? The impression I got from ESB was that he was a Warrior who was past his prime, and was now passing on his knowlage and training to later generations of fighters. Even the EU supports him as a force to be reckoned with (if you'll excuse the pun); the reason the cave was so evil was that he killed a powerful dark jedi there.

I must agree that the fight was a little... unbeleavable? It just didn't feel right, too blatantly CG. However, my problem is with the exicution, not the concept.

When I heard Yoda was going to fight, I envisioned him fighting off hoards and hoards of droids with an unprecedented use of the Force. I pictured Yoda switching from telekinetically and physically slicing up droids with his lightsaber, anticipating and dodging blaster bolts, pushing droids back, ramming them into each other, hurling destroyer droids into other droids, ripping off limbs and heads and using them to intercept blaster bolts and tear up droids at incredible velocities, blocking blaster bolts both telekinetically and physically with his lightsaber, making super leaps, flips, twirls, etc....simutaneously.

Hopefully something like that will be seen in Episode III.

PainRack wrote:I don't get it.What is wrong with the Anakin Amidala love scene?Yes,I agree that the frolicking in the meadow did take place too long but IMO,that angle was played out perfectly.


Anakin and Amidala were playing out romance scenes from some girly romance novel.But that's the beauty of it,cause their romance is exactly that.And when it hits reality,its going to hurt.And we already see that glimpse when George protrayed that metallic arm at the end.

Yoda introduction may have betrayed the orginal image of Yoda as the wise mentor in the OT,but his fight scene didn't wreck the movie.Indeed,if we ignore the coolness factor,his fight scene actually illuminates the Jedi even more.

Here is a Jedi who can obviously fight,move way better than the younger Jedi.Yet,he doesn't flaunt it.He doesn't flaunt his wisdom in Obiwan face,he doesn't flaunt his power,he doesn't flaunt his strength,he is reserved and reserve his strength.He is like the officer you respect,cause while you know he's infinitely better than you,he doesn't use it to dennigrate you but helps you up on your feet.


If we are to go with my theory on the Jedi split,in which the Jedi Order becomes split between the Yoda clan and Anakin clan,then it fits even better.Anakin represents the new Jedi all too well.They are arrogrant,impeteous and they are frankly know it all asses.Even Obi-wan is tainted.Their actions on Coruscant.Anakin believes his power is enough to protect Amidala.Anakin jumps off that speeder.Obiwan jumps off the roof onto a hovering droid.All this speak of pumped up ego syndrome,and they're going to fall because of that.

I agree with you on this. I like the Jedi split idea. The pre-OT movies are meant to show how the Republic becomes decadent, and this would have to be shown in the Jedi Order as well. I think the whole movie is meant to show how the Jedi in the end fail. They have become to sure of themselves, even Mace Windu didn't think the fact that their control of the force was lessened to be a great drama. He expected that things would just work out, as they always had for the Jedi. Just my two cents.