Why always good and evil?

Shrykull · Post by **Shrykull** » 2002-07-09 10:42pm

Why does the constant theme of Star Wars always Good vs Evil? Why not two sith lords in a neck and neck power struggle for supremacy, and why does Count Dooku serve Dark Sidius (emperor palpatine) so loyally? I mean the guy can take on Yoda in both a lightsabre and the force (well equal him in that regard at least, the worst we've ever seen Palpatine do in the movies was force lightning on Luke, and in the books destroy a fleet with a force storm, I'd like to see him try to usurp Sidius.

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-09 10:46pm

Because the whole saga was started by George Lucas, who is not a science ficton writer, but a fantasy writer. In nearly all fantasy, Good and Evil are very clear cut.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2002-07-09 11:08pm

Shrykull wrote:the worst we've ever seen Palpatine do in the movies was force lightning on Luke, and in the books destroy a fleet with a force storm, I'd like to see him try to usurp Sidius.

Patience, my friend.

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-10 01:04am

Dark Sidius? I didn't understand half of the the original post.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2002-07-10 01:37am

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-11 01:46pm

In SW, not everything is always good or evil. Look at Han Solo, or Boba Fett. In any case, it can be argued that the Jedi are not quite as high and mighty as they like everyone to think. Read the Symbolism of Star Wars (on this site) for further information on that. Not only is it a beautifully written article, but it also makes a convincing argument (if I do say so myself).

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-11 01:53pm

HeHe, most of us are SD.net regulars, and have read most of Wong's stuff.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-07-11 06:06pm

If you want a Star Wars philosophy on light and dark, read I, Jedi. Damn, that's some interesting stuff.

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-11 06:12pm

Finally! Someone else who likes I, Jedi.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-07-11 06:19pm

Happy to oblige.

Not my favorite, but its up there.

"Mine is not to mind, only to obey the wishes of my master."
"Oh, very good. Spoken like an obiqutous Imperial courtier."
"Glad to make you feel at home."

Good one, Corran!

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2002-07-11 08:26pm

"Because the whole saga was started by George Lucas, who is not a science ficton writer, but a fantasy writer. In nearly all fantasy, Good and Evil are very clear cut."

Replace the second "fantasy" with "myths" and you may be on to something.

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-12 12:26am

Myths, Fantasy, in this context it's practically the same

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2002-07-12 07:41am

"Myths, Fantasy, in this context it's practically the same"

I emphatically disagree. It's the difference between the Arthur saga and The Wheel of Time. Or in other words, all the difference in the world.

It's the mythic part of Star Wars that requires a black and white setting. Many Fantasy stories strive to emulate this, but one should not blithely assume that the good and evil motif is required for it to be Fantasy.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-12 08:33am

Star Wars is not black and white. A lot of grey

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-07-12 09:38am

And that's what it makes so interesting, after all.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2003-01-11 07:29pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Read the Symbolism of Star Wars (on this site) for further information on that. Not only is it a beautifully written article, but it also makes a convincing argument (if I do say so myself).

Can't find it.

Even looked through the site index.

Cyaround,
Jason

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2003-01-11 07:33pm

Never Mind....found it...

http://www.stardestroyer.net/AOTC/Symbolism.html

Cyaround,
Jason

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-11 07:42pm

The key indicator of what made the Republic fall is Qui-Gon telling Anakin that they're not on Tatooine to free slaves. The Republic is insular, arrogant, and callous. It laid the seeds for its own fall by permitting discontent.

In a very real way, Anakin's fall was caused by the psychological after-effects of his upbringing as a slave, in conjunction with resentment toward the Republic (and Jedi) apathy toward the plight of people like him and his mother.

If the Republic and Jedi were not so apathetic toward the plight of the downtrodden, Anakin could have become the greatest Jedi. Instead, he became their doom.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2003-01-11 07:50pm

I have a question....SW is fantasy....but what's to prevent it to be debated with sci-fi series?
.... I have a serious dose of people who says SW can't be debated b/c it's fantasy and blah blah blah.

Cyaround,
Jason

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-11 10:07pm

<snip lord wong>

Damnit, that would have been the best script for Episode II ever considered. I could imagine the entire conflict over love thing replaced with conflict over what the republic should do etc and when Shmi dies anakin eventually gets REALLY pissed at the Jedi because Obi Wan said not to go help her and you get the idea. You fucking bastard, you need to write professionally, damnit!

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-11 10:10pm

I have a question....SW is fantasy....but what's to prevent it to be debated with sci-fi series?
.... I have a serious dose of people who says SW can't be debated b/c it's fantasy and blah blah blah.

the same thing thats preventing LotR Orcs and shit from being pitted against any manner of other universes: Absolutely nothing.

What they mean, Soontir, is that SW is written in classical fantasy/myth style, but its still scifi.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2003-01-11 11:56pm

Ok, thank you. I am now reassured.

Cyaround,
Jason

Coaan · Post by **Coaan** » 2003-01-13 10:09am

Shrykull wrote:Why does the constant theme of Star Wars always Good vs Evil? Why not two sith lords in a neck and neck power struggle for supremacy, and why does Count Dooku serve Dark Sidius (emperor palpatine) so loyally? I mean the guy can take on Yoda in both a lightsabre and the force (well equal him in that regard at least, the worst we've ever seen Palpatine do in the movies was force lightning on Luke, and in the books destroy a fleet with a force storm, I'd like to see him try to usurp Sidius.

How about Moderately good vs Slightly evil with chip on shoulder?

Doesn't work does it?

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-01-13 02:43pm

in EU Good -v- Evil isn't to so clear cut. The Bothans particilularily the annoying one on the council are positivly racist, evil, and arrogant. As are certain NR species like the Quarren.

My contrast species like the Chiss and later day Imperial Reminant seem to come off better.

One question i have is does Gavin Darklighter's old bothan G/f come back in NJO to get yer wee Bothan? That's make a good plot i think.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2003-01-13 09:33pm

Darth Pounder wrote:in EU Good -v- Evil isn't to so clear cut. The Bothans particilularily the annoying one on the council are positivly racist, evil, and arrogant. As are certain NR species like the Quarren.

That's just what bugs me, because this isn't true grayscale at all. It's simply substituting villains. There are guys in the Good camp that are actually Evil? Wow, what subtlety.

My contrast species like the Chiss and later day Imperial Reminant seem to come off better.

That's because the Chiss are fairly three dimensional and plausible, thanks to Zahn.

One question i have is does Gavin Darklighter's old bothan G/f come back in NJO to get yer wee Bothan? That's make a good plot i think.

Uh, this is completely garbled. What are you trying to say?

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