Super Star Destroyer

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2003-06-03 12:50pm

So what is this ship???is it a battleship or is it a heavy carrier and if so how many small craft does it carry?

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2003-06-03 01:01pm

I think it is a battleship, and had no problem taking onboard 140+ Tie fighters/Tie Interceptors/Tie Bombers. I think that is a very small amount for a ship that size.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-06-03 02:22pm

If a regular star Destroyer is a battleship, then this has to be a comman ship. Han said it was in ROTJ and the Emperor told Vader to go to "the command ship."

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2003-06-03 02:47pm

"Super Star Destroyer" is only Rebel slang.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-06-03 03:23pm

From the discription Command Ship i get the impression these ships where there to co-ordinate the large battle groups like Death Squadron. Unfortunately we never really see any other ship apart from Executor in fleet action. Any EU references to Executor Class Star Destroyers are poorly written and the ships are dumbed down so the Rebels win.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-06-03 03:25pm

It is a supercarrier.

Far more of its volume and operations is dedicated to fighters and troops than the weapons and armor and shields it could support.

The battleship model of command ship would be the Soveriegn-class or Eclipse-class.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-06-03 03:32pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:It is a supercarrier.

Far more of its volume and operations is dedicated to fighters and troops than the weapons and armor and shields it could support.

The battleship model of command ship would be the Soveriegn-class or Eclipse-class.

A supercarrier with only 144 fighters?

Darth Phoenix · Post by **Darth Phoenix** » 2003-06-03 03:39pm

It is just like is name says, a comand ship for fleets.
It his not a supercarrier if it only carries 144 fighters, comparing with the 72 fighters i think from 1 ISD.
It also allows for making extensive repairs to smaller ships like the ISD without the need to take them to a shipyard, while still carrying very heavy firepower and shields.

IMHO of course.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-06-03 03:39pm

Darth Pounder wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:It is a supercarrier.

Far more of its volume and operations is dedicated to fighters and troops than the weapons and armor and shields it could support.

The battleship model of command ship would be the Soveriegn-class or Eclipse-class.
A supercarrier with only 144 fighters?

WEG numbers are bullshit. There's no way in hell it has only 144 fighters.

Furthermore. The Super-class Star Destroyer contained 144 fighters.

The Executor-class Commandship does not.

WEG is simply wrong without extreme bizarre continuity fixes. Better to take everything they say on ships and space combat with enormous helpings of salt.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-06-03 03:53pm

Dark Primus wrote:I think it is a battleship, and had no problem taking onboard 140+ Tie fighters/Tie Interceptors/Tie Bombers. I think that is a very small amount for a ship that size.

Depends entirely on which SSD we are talking about. The Executor is most assuradly NOT a battleship. Size comparitively it is armed inferior compared to 30 ISDs which it equates to in mass. The Executor is most accurately described as a heavy carrier. It carries a minimum of 360 squadrons of strike craft. The Sovereign is a front line battleship while the Eclipse is best described as a heavy battleship.

Soulman · Post by **Soulman** » 2003-06-03 04:07pm

It depends upon whether you discount WEG. As nothing save it's size (correct me if I'm wrong) says that WEG is wrong maybe we should try to rationalise it's size, otherwise the rest of WEG should probably be thrown out.

The Exectutor could be largely empty space, with the impressive size just for intimidation. Although the industrial capacity of the GE would speak against this the Executor project may also have been used as a smokescreen for the Death Star (assuming both were being built at around the same time). As the DS would probably require some of the best engineers that the Empire had (whose movements may have been followed by the Rebels) the Exectutor(s) may have been used to cover their movements. A couple of leaks about massive starships being built by the Empire's best engineers and some grainy photos might have delayed the Rebels finding out about the DS.

Or probably not. *shrugs*

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2003-06-03 04:27pm

The Exectutor could be largely empty space, with the impressive size just for intimidation

That is one of the MOST stupid things I ever heard!

Soulman · Post by **Soulman** » 2003-06-03 04:51pm

Tribun wrote:
The Exectutor could be largely empty space, with the impressive size just for intimidation
That is one of the MOST stupid things I ever heard!

*shrugs* I'm just trying to rationalise the WEG stats, it's not my fault they are stupid. Alternatively every crew member could have a massive brothel (would the whores be counted as crew though?), olymic swimming pool and parklands.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-06-03 05:45pm

The Super Star Destroyer is a mix between a heavy command vessel and a battleship. In Star Wars fighters only serve as secondary roles, but the space inside the executer appear to inticate that it can carry more that 144 fighters. It also carries a large force of AT-AT's, AT-ST's, prefab garision bases and not to mention the hundreds of shuttles and landing barged needed to land its troops. We've seen that 5 AT-At's can do alot of damage but that force would not fair well trying to take a heavily populated planet. ;The Executer appears to carry everything a fleet would need to "disipline" a rebellious planet.

Admiral Drason · Post by **Admiral Drason** » 2003-06-03 08:47pm

I would like to add that if you look at Saxtons web site he has a couple imperial battle ships all ready listed, so the Executer is a super Carrier/Comand Ship, the Soverign and Eclips are super Battle Ships O Doom/Comand Ships.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-06-03 08:47pm

Soulman wrote:It depends upon whether you discount WEG. As nothing save it's size (correct me if I'm wrong) says that WEG is wrong maybe we should try to rationalise it's size, otherwise the rest of WEG should probably be thrown out.

The Exectutor could be largely empty space, with the impressive size just for intimidation. Although the industrial capacity of the GE would speak against this the Executor project may also have been used as a smokescreen for the Death Star (assuming both were being built at around the same time). As the DS would probably require some of the best engineers that the Empire had (whose movements may have been followed by the Rebels) the Exectutor(s) may have been used to cover their movements. A couple of leaks about massive starships being built by the Empire's best engineers and some grainy photos might have delayed the Rebels finding out about the DS.

Or probably not. *shrugs*

So, its hollow. Like a Borg Cube.

Executor-class ships are meant to be command ships. While in combat they could do very well, with their nearly-impenetrable shielding that only massive assaults can bring down, it is not designed to be constantly fighting. Some of these ships are refitted, with more guns put in to make them more formidable, but usually Vengeance, Eclipse, Sovereign, etc. SSD's would be used for direct combat.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-06-03 09:17pm

YT300000 wrote:Executor-class ships are meant to be command ships. While in combat they could do very well, with their nearly-impenetrable shielding that only massive assaults can bring down, it is not designed to be constantly fighting. Some of these ships are refitted, with more guns put in to make them more formidable, but usually Vengeance, Eclipse, Sovereign, etc. SSD's would be used for direct combat.

That bit on the shielding is very much incorrect. It takes a mere 6 ISD or Mon Cal cruiser level ships to knock out the shields of an Executor. Executors have fewer weapons then they should, they mount only the same weapons as smaller ships rather then larger weapons (IE, mini super lasers), their armor is not significantly different then ISDs. Executors are very much command ships as well as heavy carriers.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-06-03 09:22pm

I don't think Sovereign class Star Destroyer's are battleships. Otherwise the Empire never built its first true battleship until 10 years after Endor! And even then, it was a grand total of four (IIRC) battleships.

What navy has 25,000 destroyers and 4 battleships? To me, at least, they seemed more like siege platforms/command ships. They are obviously big enough to coordinate fleets without risking too much damage, and their superlaser grants them the ability to lay waste to any planet in the galaxy. It would also seem strange if Imperial "battleships" all have superlasers.

Now obviously a SD is just that, a Destroyer (think Star Fighters and Star Cruisers before dismissing it as "just an intimidating title"; destroying stars after all would be pretty intimidating, but I digress). Meanwhile a ECS is just that, a command ship. Rather than resorting to using giant planet-crackers as battleships, it would seem to be that the battleship class lies in the middle of the SD and the ECS.

The best example of that I can think of is the Allegiance (Dark Empire). Thoughts?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-06-03 09:34pm

There are a number of ships in the 3-5 km range in the comics.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-06-03 09:36pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:I don't think Sovereign class Star Destroyer's are battleships. Otherwise the Empire never built its first true battleship until 10 years after Endor! And even then, it was a grand total of four (IIRC) battleships.

What navy has 25,000 destroyers and 4 battleships? To me, at least, they seemed more like siege platforms/command ships. They are obviously big enough to coordinate fleets without risking too much damage, and their superlaser grants them the ability to lay waste to any planet in the galaxy. It would also seem strange if Imperial "battleships" all have superlasers.

Now obviously a SD is just that, a Destroyer (think Star Fighters and Star Cruisers before dismissing it as "just an intimidating title"; destroying stars after all would be pretty intimidating, but I digress). Meanwhile a ECS is just that, a command ship. Rather than resorting to using giant planet-crackers as battleships, it would seem to be that the battleship class lies in the middle of the SD and the ECS.

The best example of that I can think of is the Allegiance (Dark Empire). Thoughts?

Umm, the empire has a fuckload more then just 25,000 destroyers. ISDs are cruisers. Given the bare minimum number of total ships listed for the Empire, the ISD most definately is NOT a destroyer. It merely means the Sovereign is a super battleship and the Eclipse just magnitudes higher.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-06-03 09:37pm

WHY does a command ship need to be so large? Are there mile long super carriers at sea? Seriously I think its sort of a brainbug that a command ship NEEDS to be so much larger than other ships in the fleet.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-06-03 09:45pm

It logically follows that Executor is far more than just a command ship.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-06-03 10:11pm

Howedar wrote:It logically follows that Executor is far more than just a command ship.

Indeed, it doesn't have a hangar big enough to hold a Star Destroyer in it for nothing.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-06-03 10:17pm

Stravo wrote:WHY does a command ship need to be so large? Are there mile long super carriers at sea? Seriously I think its sort of a brainbug that a command ship NEEDS to be so much larger than other ships in the fleet.

No shit. Hence why Imperator-class destroyers have C4I abilities and can easily serve in the common pocket armadas deployed against the Alliance and later the Republic as command ships.

The Command Ship as in the Executor is a prestige vessel, that's part of its definition. It is like the Bismarck for Germany.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-06-03 10:30pm

Stravo wrote:WHY does a command ship need to be so large? Are there mile long super carriers at sea? Seriously I think its sort of a brainbug that a command ship NEEDS to be so much larger than other ships in the fleet.

Intimidation. The Tarkin doctrine is a perfect example of this: Rule by fear of force, not force itself.

What will you be more afraid of, a large ship that can BDZ planets and is painted white, or a REALLY REALLY big ship that is painted black and more powerful.