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From the tactical hologram it seemes that the Alliance had corrcect information about the DS2. (At least the size of the generator was known.)
The presence of the MF (armed with vibration missiles -according to the novelization) in the battle was only an accident. Solo gave it to Calrissian in the very last moment.
Question1: Or was it planned that the MF would destroy the DS2?
From the movie it seems that there were two waves of fighters. (After the first wave (led by the MF) had just turned off from the DS2 there were still fighters among the cruisers.) I think Wedge belonged to the first wave and Wedge's fighter was not enough to destroy the generator. The Y- wings have nearly the same firepower as X- wings, so they were not enough either.
Question2: Did the A- wings carried those missiles required? (It would suggest that A- wings are far more effective aginst heavily armed targets than X or Y - wings.)
Lando ordered the A- wings to turn back, but maybe it was only because he thrusted himself.
So far I have seen B - wings only in the first wave.
Question3: Were the B - wings designated to be the primary tools in the destruction of the DS2? If yes, how? Could those ion cannons overload a so huge generator? (As I know, the original B - wings have the standard torpedo armament, but only a single launcher.)

vakundok wrote:From the tactical hologram it seemes that the Alliance had corrcect information about the DS2. (At least the size of the generator was known.)
The presence of the MF (armed with vibration missiles -according to the novelization) in the battle was only an accident. Solo gave it to Calrissian in the very last moment.
Question1: Or was it planned that the MF would destroy the DS2?
From the movie it seems that there were two waves of fighters. (After the first wave (led by the MF) had just turned off from the DS2 there were still fighters among the cruisers.)

Concussion missiles was the term used- Calrissian credited them with greater penetration, IIRC?

I think Wedge belonged to the first wave and Wedge's fighter was not enough to destroy the generator. The Y- wings have nearly the same firepower as X- wings, so they were not enough either.

Why not? All of Red and Gold Group were tasked with flying into the superstructure to knock out the main reactor- it was purely circumstance than it was a pair of proton torpedoes and a salvo of concussion missiles that ended up doing the job.

Question2: Did the A- wings carried those missiles required? (It would suggest that A- wings are far more effective aginst heavily armed targets than X or Y - wings.)

I would say so- the massive rapid fire concussion missile salvo fired by the A-Wings into the Executor bridge globe are very similar to the one the Millenium Falcon fires, in terms of looks.

Lando ordered the A- wings to turn back, but maybe it was only because he thrusted himself.

A Y-Wing headed back as well.

So far I have seen B - wings only in the first wave.

I'm not sure if B-Wings were part of Red/ Gold Group- either way, we don't see any attack the Death Star.

Question3: Were the B - wings designated to be the primary tools in the destruction of the DS2? If yes, how? Could those ion cannons overload a so huge generator? (As I know, the original B - wings have the standard torpedo armament, but only a single launcher.)

The B-Wings are credited in official material with the heaviest warload out of all Alliance fighters, including the Y-Wing.

Vympel wrote:

vakundok wrote:From the tactical hologram it seemes that the Alliance had corrcect information about the DS2. (At least the size of the generator was known.)
The presence of the MF (armed with vibration missiles -according to the novelization) in the battle was only an accident. Solo gave it to Calrissian in the very last moment.
Question1: Or was it planned that the MF would destroy the DS2?
From the movie it seems that there were two waves of fighters. (After the first wave (led by the MF) had just turned off from the DS2 there were still fighters among the cruisers.)

Concussion missiles was the term used- Calrissian credited them with greater penetration, IIRC?

I think Wedge belonged to the first wave and Wedge's fighter was not enough to destroy the generator. The Y- wings have nearly the same firepower as X- wings, so they were not enough either.

Why not? All of Red and Gold Group were tasked with flying into the superstructure to knock out the main reactor- it was purely circumstance than it was a pair of proton torpedoes and a salvo of concussion missiles that ended up doing the job.

Question2: Did the A- wings carried those missiles required? (It would suggest that A- wings are far more effective aginst heavily armed targets than X or Y - wings.)

I would say so- the massive rapid fire concussion missile salvo fired by the A-Wings into the Executor bridge globe are very similar to the one the Millenium Falcon fires, in terms of looks.

Lando ordered the A- wings to turn back, but maybe it was only because he thrusted himself.

A Y-Wing headed back as well.

So far I have seen B - wings only in the first wave.

I'm not sure if B-Wings were part of Red/ Gold Group- either way, we don't see any attack the Death Star.

Question3: Were the B - wings designated to be the primary tools in the destruction of the DS2? If yes, how? Could those ion cannons overload a so huge generator? (As I know, the original B - wings have the standard torpedo armament, but only a single launcher.)

The B-Wings are credited in official material with the heaviest warload out of all Alliance fighters, including the Y-Wing.

So, concussion missiles. Thanks. In the novelization, Wedge said "It is too big, my proton torpedoes canot even dent it." - or something similar. This led me to think that no fighter (armed with proton torpedoes) could destroy the reactor itself. So, I deleted both the X and Y wings (and the proton torpedoes of B - wings) from the "primary DS2 destroying tool" list.
Is it sure that those A - wings fired concussion missiles? If I remember well, those blasts came from their cannons.

The "twang" sounds that accompanied the launch of the missiles were not the sounds of blaster or laser cannons firing.

It should also be noted that there were more twang than missiles,so,its possible that there was a misfire by the A-wing.

Q1:Lando was the leader of the fighter group that will destroy the Death Star.There weren't any staggering out of fighters waves,although there were several mixed fighter groups.

Q2:The EU will say yes.

Q3:No.The figther groups were a mix of X-wings,A-wings and Y-wings.They may had B-wings attached to them.


Also,one should note that WEG credited the Death Star kill to Wedge Antilles,as it was his proton torpedoes which hit the equipment that caused the generator to overload.

The alliance plan can be broken down as this

"Fighters (plural) fly into the Death Star and fire lots of warheads into it, and then get the hell out of there before it explodes"

However, this plan was monkey wrenched by the presence of an Imperial task force, there there fighters. The Alliance idea of sending there fighters in was rather more difficult with swarms of Tie Fighters and Tie Interceptors trying to shot them down, Tie Bombers (probaby) attacking Capital ships, and possibly Tie Avengers and Tie Defenders tossed in the mix. I doupt there were any Missile Boats. I'll lay 10:1 those are with the Chiss/Hand of Thrawn forces.

Otherwise, the Falcon and probably most of, if not all of, the rebel star fighters would have flown into the Death Star, gonne to the main reactor, lined up to blast it and then all run, and then all of them would have fired warheads then taken off out every possible exit in one of the wildest races in history.

Actually i don't think a B-Wing could have flown the DS run. The shape would have killed it in severl instances where even the Falcon got damaged. But i definately remember seeing B-Wings in the scene where Calrisian orders the shisp to lock the Strike foils into attack posture.

According to Wedge in the novelization, the proton torpedoes were unable to destroy the reactor. So, I do not know why the X and Y wings were there for.
Officially the A - wings can carry concussion missiles. It is said that they fired those missiles to the globe of the Executor. However there are problems with this:
That attack sounded me like regular blaster fire (SE saved from TV), but I was unable to find the sound of A - wing blaster fire to compare.
Those blasts definitely came from the guns and I highly doubt that the guns would be combined missile launcher/blaster guns.
The A - wing is officially an interceptor isn't it? So I canot imagine it to be more effective against heavily armored targets than X and Y wings.

The group led by Lando consisted 5 X, 4 B, 5 A and 8 Y wings at least, so B wings were present in the task force originally headed to attack the DS2. Yes, those B wings most likely would have been destroyed where the Falcon lost its radar dish, however the existence of that very narrow section was unknown at the start of that attack.

So, now the "primary DS2 destroying tool" list:
- concussion missiles of the single Falcon,
- concussion missiles of the A wings,
- ion cannons of the B wings,
- waves of torpedoes fired from X, Y and B wings with Ties from the DS2 just wandering/waiiting out there.
Each of them is questionable.

EDIT: Hmm. Maybe I was wrong and there were not a primary DS2 destroying tool at all. Maybe it was the sheer firepower of all of the fighters. Thanks Solauren and all of you!

It can be assumed that had the MF not been in the area with the concussion torpedos, the Rebel fighters would have kamikazied the reactor in order to destroy the DS2.

Howedar wrote:It can be assumed that had the MF not been in the area with the concussion torpedos, the Rebel fighters would have kamikazied the reactor in order to destroy the DS2.

If I remember well, Ackbar said that they would try to destroy the main reactor, not that they would destroy the reactor (at all costs).

It's possible that certain squadrons may have had heavier warhead loadouts for the direct assault, with other squadrons within the entire group or wing having other loads to cover them on the way/

I'd always thought that proton torpedoes had a higher payload, but they don't have the penetration of concussion missiles, which is why Wedge wasn't sure if his torps could knock out the reactor. Torps=good against shielding; missiles=good against armor.

Darth Yoshi wrote:I'd always thought that proton torpedoes had a higher payload, but they don't have the penetration of concussion missiles, which is why Wedge wasn't sure if his torps could knock out the reactor. Torps=good against shielding; missiles=good against armor.

This explanation seems to fit, so it can be true.

vakundok wrote:According to Wedge in the novelization, the proton torpedoes were unable to destroy the reactor. So, I do not know why the X and Y wings were there for.
Officially the A - wings can carry concussion missiles. It is said that they fired those missiles to the globe of the Executor. However there are problems with this:
That attack sounded me like regular blaster fire (SE saved from TV), but I was unable to find the sound of A - wing blaster fire to compare.
Those blasts definitely came from the guns and I highly doubt that the guns would be combined missile launcher/blaster guns.
The A - wing is officially an interceptor isn't it? So I canot imagine it to be more effective against heavily armored targets than X and Y wings.

The group led by Lando consisted 5 X, 4 B, 5 A and 8 Y wings at least, so B wings were present in the task force originally headed to attack the DS2. Yes, those B wings most likely would have been destroyed where the Falcon lost its radar dish, however the existence of that very narrow section was unknown at the start of that attack.

So, now the "primary DS2 destroying tool" list:
- concussion missiles of the single Falcon,
- concussion missiles of the A wings,
- ion cannons of the B wings,
- waves of torpedoes fired from X, Y and B wings with Ties from the DS2 just wandering/waiiting out there.
Each of them is questionable.

EDIT: Hmm. Maybe I was wrong and there were not a primary DS2 destroying tool at all. Maybe it was the sheer firepower of all of the fighters. Thanks Solauren and all of you!

Wedge said his torpedoes can't dent the generator and this meant the concussion missiles were required as their penetrative abilities were stronger.However,Wedge torpedoes were effective against the supporting struts,which we are told are cooling equipment for the reactor.

This is why WEG attributes the kill to Wedge,as it was his torpedoes that caused the generator to overload.

PainRack wrote:Wedge said his torpedoes can't dent the generator and this meant the concussion missiles were required as their penetrative abilities were stronger.However,Wedge torpedoes were effective against the supporting struts,which we are told are cooling equipment for the reactor.

This is why WEG attributes the kill to Wedge,as it was his torpedoes that caused the generator to overload.

I disagree WEG.
WEG says it was overloaded. The novelization says it collapsed. The novelization seems to be closer to what we saw.
Besides, there were two towers. I think the destruction of the half of the "cooling system" (in the novelization it was labelled as energy controller) could not cause the overload of a reactor.

Is there any chance the Emperor falling into the reactor damaged it from the inside. When the generator exploded we see aring of energy kinda like the one that shot up the shaft when Vader threw Palpy in. don't forget that in HttE a Dark Jedi's death blew a hole in several meter thick rock. Just a wee though though i may be wrong.

Did that shaft actually lead to the reactor?

vakundok wrote:
If I remember well, Ackbar said that they would try to destroy the main reactor, not that they would destroy the reactor (at all costs).

What, you think they'd spend tens of thousands of lives (not to mention their only chance at destroying both the DS2 and the Emperor) to just say, "Oh dear, my torpedos are too weak, well I guess I'll just go now!"

Darth Pounder wrote:Is there any chance the Emperor falling into the reactor damaged it from the inside. When the generator exploded we see aring of energy kinda like the one that shot up the shaft when Vader threw Palpy in. don't forget that in HttE a Dark Jedi's death blew a hole in several meter thick rock. Just a wee though though i may be wrong.

The shaft was pretty wide, so I don't think that Palpatine's Dark Side explosion really caused any damage to the reactor itself.

I think the depth that Palpatine dies at can be determined (or at least a lower limit) by timing how long he falls, but I don't think it's anywhere near ~450 kilometres.

He probably just landed on something in the shaft like a walkway and done blowed up and go boom.

Several thing of note in the original plans of the Rebels to destroy the Death Star II

1. They did not expect the armed resistance from the station(as it weapon systems are not yet operational) so it appears that the Rebels expected most(if not all) of the fighters to make it into the core to attack it. They had several groups of fighters who's only job was to attack the Death Star. They did have 'interceptor' mentioned as the Imperials were detected. So it appears that the cruisers still had their own fighter still on board ready to go if needed.

2. It appears that all of the B-Wings were intended to attack the Death Star core.

3. It appears that they inteanded for Han to lead the Starfighter but he had volenteered to lead Strike Team to the bunker(remember the conversation between Han and Lando "Who says they didn't, but I'm not crasy. Your the respectable one remember.") This may explain why Han let Lando use the ship as Han knew Lando would need it.

Could B-wings even fit down the shaft? I know they couldn't with the S-foils extended.

Howedar wrote:Could B-wings even fit down the shaft? I know they couldn't with the S-foils extended.

I think a B-Wing went into the shaft. But it might have been a Y-Wing. I haven't seen Ep. VI in a while.

A B-Wing flying sideways would fit even with its S-Foils, which wouldn't be a problem since that particular ship has the funky design with the body rotating around the cockpit.

It's entirely possible the Rebels didn't know HOW heavily armored the reactor was when they decided to take it out with a fighter strike. It's also probable that they didn't expect only 1 or 2 X-Wings and the Falcon to make it to the reactor; while a single X-Wing's proton torpedos might not have made a dent in it, a squadron or two unloading might have done the job.

Doesn't one of the sourcebooks say that the A-Wings are loaded with concussion missiles with a range of .5 kilometers that have far higher-damage payloads than proton torpedos? The Complete Guide To Starfighters or something?

From what I recall Lando ordered the A-Wings to break off into the side passages in order to draw off the Imperial pilots that were chasing them.

Kerneth wrote:A B-Wing flying sideways would fit even with its S-Foils, which wouldn't be a problem since that particular ship has the funky design with the body rotating around the cockpit.

Golly, that doesn't matter a whole lot in zero-G, does it?

Howedar wrote:

Kerneth wrote:A B-Wing flying sideways would fit even with its S-Foils, which wouldn't be a problem since that particular ship has the funky design with the body rotating around the cockpit.

Golly, that doesn't matter a whole lot in zero-G, does it?

Don't forget the g-force issue, Howedar. I'm not sure how good the grav compensators are on fighters, so maybe the designer of the B-Wing (a certain Admiral Ackbar) wanted the pilot to be 'head up' to the centre of any given turning circle or something. *shrugs* Hey, it is just a suggestion.

That aside, has there ever been any suggestion that any of the rebel fighters were carrying something heavier than their normal war-loads? something like super-sized gravity bombs or concussion 'torpedoes' slung underneath the Y-Wings' hulls or something?

Howedar wrote:

Kerneth wrote:A B-Wing flying sideways would fit even with its S-Foils, which wouldn't be a problem since that particular ship has the funky design with the body rotating around the cockpit.

Golly, that doesn't matter a whole lot in zero-G, does it?

You are hardly in zero-G when your inside a sphere 900 km in diameter.