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Just once, I'd like to see a movie in which Stormtroopers, Battle 'Droids, and Redshirts don't perform like cannon fodder.

I mean, every time we see a Stormtrooper on-screen in the SW universe, he's an idiot who not only can't shoot straight, but couldn't catch any kind of intruder even if the guy's feet were glued to the floor.

And the Battle 'Droids? Please. We see their praises sung in the literature, but a quick review of AoTC revels that George Lucas envisions them as a sort of comic relief.

We don't even need to get into the Redshirts ...

I mean, every time we see a Stormtrooper on-screen in the SW universe, he's an idiot who not only can't shoot straight, but couldn't catch any kind of intruder even if the guy's feet were glued to the floor.

We see Stormtroopers in situations where they are trying to not kill or injure their targets, so of course they aren't going to aim very well. From AoTC, however, we know that Stormies/Clones make quite an effective military unit when they are ordered to do so. Assuming that Stormies can't aim on account of the times we see them in the movies is a hasty generalization, anyway.

And the Battle 'Droids? Please. We see their praises sung in the literature, but a quick review of AoTC revels that George Lucas envisions them as a sort of comic relief.

Did you not watch the two prequels? GL makes it quite clear that battle droids are not extremely efficient.

There's a huge difference between "not very effective" and "comic relief."

"Droids in the film are idiots, not soldiers.

And the Clones are apparently - like all Rebel units in the OT - realistic, unlike anything fielded by the Empire or Seperatists.

I don't think that the battle droid was that bad of fighting force. They did actually win the ground battle in TPM.

Even against the Jedi is AOTC, they manager to bloody the Jedi. Doubtful that a human army woul;d have done better.

As for the Clonetrooper. Well one battle does not a clone war make. Apparently the cheaper battle droids are cannon fodder but the destroyer and super battle droids appear to be more of a menace.


As for the Storm trooper. Other than the pitful performance on Endor. The Storm trooper walk over the rebels at Hoth, and the broading action on Leai's ship.

I don't think that the battle droid was that bad of fighting force. They did actually win the ground battle in TPM

Against the Gungan Army. That's not saying much. A few well-trained Jedi probably could have massacred every single one of them.

And I just realized I accused Axis of making a hasty generalization while doing the exact same thing myself. Silly me.

Durran Korr wrote:

I don't think that the battle droid was that bad of fighting force. They did actually win the ground battle in TPM

Against the Gungan Army. That's not saying much. A few well-trained Jedi probably could have massacred every single one of them.

And I just realized I accused Axis of making a hasty generalization while doing the exact same thing myself. Silly me.

Don't forget, it was the droid army in AOTC that put the hurt on the jedi. True they still sucked and only won through numbers, but they still would have won if not for the clonetroopers.

Axis Kast wrote:Just once, I'd like to see a movie in which Stormtroopers, Battle 'Droids, and Redshirts don't perform like cannon fodder.

I mean, every time we see a Stormtrooper on-screen in the SW universe, he's an idiot who not only can't shoot straight, but couldn't catch any kind of intruder even if the guy's feet were glued to the floor.

Their accuracy is comparable to modern soldiers, as long as you don't have unrealistic crack shot expectations borne out of mostly film where you routninely see nonsense like a cop nailing a bad guy in the head from 50m away with a pistol. We see Stormtroopers clean up in ANH, their victory on Hoth is obvious (consider that Snowtroopers entered the base before the shield was dropped, clearly dismounts from AT-ATs on another sector fo the battle), and though we didn't see many Ewoks die in ROTJ (because they're so cute and cuddly and it's a PG movie), the novelization explicitly talks of the Ewoks getting slaughtered en masse.

As for the ease of catching an intruder

"They let us go. It's the only explanation for the ease of our escape"

"Easy, you call that easy?"

"They're tracking us."

And again in ESB

"Did your men disable the hyperdrive on the Millenium Falcon?"

And the Battle 'Droids? Please. We see their praises sung in the literature, but a quick review of AoTC revels that George Lucas envisions them as a sort of comic relief.

TPM has them as comic relief more than AOTC. I didn't find it funny when they were slaughtering Jedi in the Arena, and you've got to admit the Droideka and Super Battledroids are no joke.

Vympel wrote:TPM has them as comic relief more than AOTC. I didn't find it funny when they were slaughtering Jedi in the Arena, and you've got to admit the Droideka and Super Battledroids are no joke.

Of course, they just HAD to insert that fucking stupid "Uh-oh!" "Roger-roger" when the Acklay came up to a pair of them. They should have shot the fucker in the throat instead of getting worried. Makes me mad every time I see it.

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:

Vympel wrote:TPM has them as comic relief more than AOTC. I didn't find it funny when they were slaughtering Jedi in the Arena, and you've got to admit the Droideka and Super Battledroids are no joke.

Of course, they just HAD to insert that fucking stupid "Uh-oh!" "Roger-roger" when the Acklay came up to a pair of them. They should have shot the fucker in the throat instead of getting worried. Makes me mad every time I see it.

George Lucas has a serious problem with too much comic relief. Case in point: the whole Threepio's head thing.

What you are saying is that Trade Federation Battle Droids are what they are a cheap easy to produce and easy to conceal army. They are an army designed to overwhelm the opposition with shear numbers rather than intellegence. The War Droids used by the Empire in the Dark Empire series, at least the ST-9's and 10's, performed in a similer fasion as the Trade Fed Droids only with better tactical programming. The Viper Automotons are another matter though.

Isolder74 wrote:What you are saying is that Trade Federation Battle Droids are what they are a cheap easy to produce and easy to conceal army. They are an army designed to overwhelm the opposition with shear numbers rather than intellegence. The War Droids used by the Empire in the Dark Empire series, at least the ST-9's and 10's, performed in a similer fasion as the Trade Fed Droids only with better tactical programming. The Viper Automotons are another matter though.

Just some nitpicks. SD, not ST. SD-9's could take on about 100 standard troops at once, and win. SD-10's were even better. They had much better programing, shit-loads of super powerful armour and kick-ass weaponry.

The X-1 Viper "Automadons" were really powerful. One could easily take out a CR-90 Corellian Corvette and take no damage (some sort of super shielding, absorbs all energy from blasters/TLs).

Vympel wrote:

TPM has them as comic relief more than AOTC. I didn't find it funny when they were slaughtering Jedi in the Arena, and you've got to admit the Droideka and Super Battledroids are no joke.

Agreed, TPM has them as much more comic relief than AOTC does. Also I agree the Droidekas are no joke, but the Super Battledroids are. In fact, they are perhaps the stupidest droid design seen in all of the new trilogy!!
Reasons:
1)They have heavy armor
2)They have heavy weapons
3)They appear to have more independant thought than Battle Droids.
4)They can't hit the broad side of a barn...I'm almost serious.

#'s1-3 indicate the Seperatists were willing to spend more resources on these droids than the others. #4 indicates they put those resources everywere except where it counts. Really really stupid.

If you watch the Geonosis fight you may notice there are quite a few droids there. You may also notice there are many fewer Jedi than droids. Finally, you may notice just how uncoordinated morst of the Droid's fire was, and just how inaccurate much/most of it was. What this led to was each Jedi only had to deal with ~30-45% of any particular droid's fire, and very few Jedi had to deal with incoming fire from more than 2-4 droids for even a moment or two.
If the droid army had coordinated its fire, fired accurately, and concentrated its fire, they could have won with far fewer losses. I expect such suckyness from the battle dorids, but the more resource intensive Super Battle Droids should have been 3-500% better than they were onscreen. Think about the RoF these things have. Now think of accurate fire from a group of 5, all trained on one Jedi. Few Jedi would survive that kind of fire. They suck.

Yea George could've at least just had maybe 10 Squads of troops...Instead there were like 20+...It could've easily helped show the Jedi as badass Motha F....errr...and Battle droids should've been directed to do better with about the same results in the end as what AOTC showed.... Dang GL...~Jason

Considering that the droid armies appear to be controlled by master computers either aboard command carriers or in underground bunkers, I'd say they performed quite well. It makes sense that they would be rather clumsy since their controllers were caught of guard ( at least at geonosis.)