StarDestroyer.Net BBS

The Lancer is said to cost the same as a heavy cruiser and is only good against star fighters. I cannot find its price or the price of a heavy cruiser but a Nebulon-B costs 194,000,000 credits which if we divide by 350,000 credits for a TIE Defender (says over 300,000 credits so rough estimate) gives us 554 fighters which is just over 46 squadrons. You could refit an entire fleet of Star Destroyers (6) with Defenders and it would go farther if the TIEs were replaced with Avengers and the Interceptors with Defenders. A heavy cruiser should cost significantly more then a Nebulon-B. So are these anti-starfighter capital ships just a blatant wastes of money, personnel, and time better spent on more advanced fighters or is there a reason for it to exist? I mean it carries no troops, no starfighters, no support craft, and is rather slow so what's the point?

First of all, where did you get those cost figures????

Second of all, wasn't the Lancer frigate a freak-out reaction to rebel fighters taking out the DS1???

The fact that the imperial command was panicing, and the fact that Tie Defenders wern't in production yet (They may have been though, when did Zarrin's revolt take place?) and the Tie advanced was still in the prototype stages may have been involved with a relativy poor decision.

194.000.000 for a Nebulon-B? All I can remember is that in WEG the corvette was 4.500.000 (new).

Nebulon B
TIE Defender
Lancer Frigate

They had Nebulon-Bs back then which are not only good against star fighters but cap ships.

EDIT: And Carrack cruisers.

I think it is a typing error. 19,400,000 is more likely. Check the Bulk Cruiser (600m (?) and 6.5 M) and the Corellian Gunship (4.8 M).

Since when has WEG been canon?

It might come under EU, very low end EU, and is only valid in situations where it isn't contradicted by something higher.

Sir Sirius wrote:Since when has WEG been canon?

Since when the Lancer or the Defender have been canon at all? I think this topic is an "official topic".

The Essential guide says the Imps only built a small number of Lancers because they cost as much as standard capships, but were only effective against fighters. The whole thing was caused by paranoia after rebel X-wings killed the Death Star

What are small numbers for an organisation like the GE?

And i don´t think the costs of the capital ships are to low - i mean, what could they spent the money for?

They have more than enough energy, more than enough materials available, most of the work is done by droids.

Its possible, that the main costs originate from license fees and within the bureaucracy.

As for the Lancers and expansive TIE-models: Couldn´t it be, that the Empire was subsidizing KDY and SFS?

Lancers are devastatingly useful against fighters. But against capships, they are a waste of money.

As I recall, the Lancer frigate predates the TIE Defender. The development of more advanced fighters and the high cost of the Lancer is probably why the Empire never built many of them.

vakundok wrote:Since when the Lancer or the Defender have been canon at all? I think this topic is an "official topic".

Since both have been featured in the novels, that makes them canon. Unless you mean "in the movies" when you say "canon," in which case neither are.

The TIE Defender was developed after Hoth, while the Lancer frigate predates that.

Darth Yoshi wrote:

vakundok wrote:Since when the Lancer or the Defender have been canon at all? I think this topic is an "official topic".

Since both have been featured in the novels, that makes them canon. Unless you mean "in the movies" when you say "canon," in which case neither are.

The TIE Defender was developed after Hoth, while the Lancer frigate predates that.

I knew it!!!!!!!!!!

Wasn't the TIE Defender rushed into production to stop Zarrin???? (Who had found a way to shield his TIEs)

Or was the Defender also developed after the Imperials panicked after the disaster at yavin????

Actually, the TIE Defender was a more advanced version of the TIE Advanced, sometimes referred to as the TIE Avenger (not to be confused with Vader's fighter, the TIE Advanced X-1). The TIE Defender was teh key to Zaarin's coup attempt, which led to teh development of the Missile Boat by Thrawn to counter it.

Darth Yoshi wrote:Actually, the TIE Defender was a more advanced version of the TIE Advanced, sometimes referred to as the TIE Avenger (not to be confused with Vader's fighter, the TIE Advanced X-1). The TIE Defender was teh key to Zaarin's coup attempt, which led to teh development of the Missile Boat by Thrawn to counter it.

Dammit. I knew i should have finished playing TIE Fighter.

WEG cost figures are completely absurd, with some hand weapons costing 500 while you can get decent starfighters for 40,000. They should be ignored completely since they where intended purely the support the role-playing aspect of the game.


The Lancer did predate the Defender by an number of years.

Darth Yoshi wrote:Actually, the TIE Defender was a more advanced version of the TIE Advanced, sometimes referred to as the TIE Avenger (not to be confused with Vader's fighter, the TIE Advanced X-1). The TIE Defender was teh key to Zaarin's coup attempt, which led to teh development of the Missile Boat by Thrawn to counter it.

I don't really like grouping the TIE/D with the TIE/A; their linages are somewhat related but IIRC, it's not a direct descendant.

Darth Yoshi wrote:

vakundok wrote:Since when the Lancer or the Defender have been canon at all? I think this topic is an "official topic".

Since both have been featured in the novels, that makes them canon. Unless you mean "in the movies" when you say "canon," in which case neither are.

I thought so far that "canon" means the movies, the radio dramatizations and the novelizations of the movies only.

WEG is full of errors, without doubt. But we have very few clues to the costs of things in the SW universe. From the canon we only know that some kind of (scrappy) ship could be bought for 10,000 imperial credits while a second line speeder worths less than 2,000. (And the hones price of travelling from Tatooine to Alderaan is also around 2,000. Whether it involves a "blockade-running" is unknown.)

EDIT:
Side note: If I remember well, the Advanced was Zaarin's baby and the Defenders were loyal to the emperor. Thrawn designed the missile boat as a cheaper alternative to carry the firepower of the Defender.

40,000 credits for a decent starfighter in WEG? It must be a used fighter in questionable condition. Even a new TIE/ln costs more than 50,000.

However the topic is about why to build Lancer frigates instead of building advanced fighters.
1. The 194 M price of he Nebulon-B must be wrong. Let it be 19.4 M.
2. The fighters alone canot escort convoys. They require a carrier ship (additional costs and a ship that must be defended at all costs).
3. The price of the Lancer frigate is unknown and confusing. (Eg.: In the SW:Rebellion game it costs 14 while the Nebulon-B costs 34 and even this game is a low level official source, isn't it?)

TIE Defender 300,000
Skipray Blastboat 285,000
TIE Advanced (Avenger) 250,000
XM-1 Nova Wing Missileboat 225,000
A-9 Vigilance Interceptor 185,000
TIE Drone 170,000
I-7 Howlrunner 165,000
V-38 Assault Fighter 150,000
TIE Bomber 150,000
Star Wing Assault Gunboat 125,000
TIE Interceptor 120,000
TIE Line Fighter 60,000

T-65AC4 "Advanced" X-wing 225,000
B-Wing 220,000
T-65AC2 X-wing 200,000
E-Wing 185,000
A-Wing 175,000
T-65B X-wing 150,000
Y-Wing 135,000
T-Wing 110,000
New Republic Defender 45,000

Preybird Assault Fighter 200,000
Razor Starfighter 115,000 (Not available new, same price used)
Pinook Starfighter 85,000
R-41 Starchaser 75,000 (Not available new)
Hornet Interceptor 75,000
Planetary Fighter 68,000
Zebra Starfighter 65,000
Z-95 Headhunter 45,000 (Not available new)
Toscan 8-Q 35,000 (Not available new)
C-73 Tracker 20,000 (Not available new)
CloakShape 15,000 (Not available new, +15,000 for hyperdrive)

Half price for used fighters.

What amazes me about those numbers is that Luke could get a ship for 10,000 credits albeit without weapons placements and for 100,000+ credits for one starfighter is truly absurd! Unless the engines, shields and laser canons shoots the price up which is doubtful... Hmmm...if there's a fault in this reasoning let me know...~Jason

I do not know. In reality the price of decent fighters start from around 50 M USD. I think used civil planes (Cessna category or maybe better) can be bought for 5 M.

Nightmare, could you give us the price of a Lancer frigate?

True pretty much everything indicates the Defender cam after the Lancer. However the Carrack and Nebulon-B were already well established at that time. In part the Defender example was my attempt to show the you can have this or this for the same investment. Yes one needs a carrier for fighters but a Lancer also needs a Carrack or Nebulon-B hanging around at the very least to prevent some Rebel starship from showing up and taking it out. If it wasn't so slow I might hold it in higher regard but Nebulon-Bs are well established as Escort Frigates and quite effective against both fighters and capitals ships.

The real question here is more of if they should stay in production, which other people seem to agree is no.

FOG3 wrote:The real question here is more of if they should stay in production, which other people seem to agree is no.

The Lancer is a purpose- built ship. (Just like an A-10 in present days.) My answer depends on its price that I do not know. (If the Lancer is more expensive than 5-6 squadrons of Interceptors and an Escort Carrier, my answer will be no as well.)

vakundok wrote:I do not know. In reality the price of decent fighters start from around 50 M USD. I think used civil planes (Cessna category or maybe better) can be bought for 5 M.

You can get a Cessna 182 new for under $200,000 US. A low-end business jet will run you $3-4 million US. Decent fighters start at many tens of millions of US dollars.