A return to the origins of the Jedi ...

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2002-09-24 05:05pm

Something that has bothered me for some time is that the EU seems to ignore the influence of the samurai on Jedi.

Oh, I know that Star Wars is a science fiction universe, but I always found the mystical aspect of the Jedi appealing.

It seems to me that they've drifted away from the mystical Force that binds the universe together and now made it some kind of superhuman ability.

~Crom

"Who are you?"

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-09-24 05:20pm

Traitor deals extensively with the Force as the mystical energy that binds the Universe together. It also expands upon what we already know, offering new perspective.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-24 05:26pm

KJA can shove the EU up his ass.

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2002-09-25 11:22am

I dislike what I've read of Kevin J. Anderson's work too. I've never been able to enjoy his interpretation of the Star Wars universe.

For instance, I never thought that Luke would rebuild the Jedi Temple. If I've learned anything from the earlier movies was that the Temple was not a good thing. It polarized the Force, when I don't think the Force was meant to be split between the light and the dark side. The Jedi seemed to be all caught up with repression.

AL · Post by AL » 2002-09-26 03:20am

I would think the Jedi temple on corusant would be used by the New PC correct EU created Jedi, and not on Yavin 4. But hey why not on Yavin 4 it was home to a sith race the massassi and that has to be a good influence on the Jedi in training.

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2002-09-26 11:35am

My problem is not with the location of the new Jedi Temple, but with the fact that there is a Jedi temple at all. I just thought that creating an organization, trying to recreate the old Jedi order, is a mistake. In fact I thought that was something that the Force was against.

I felt that a half-trained Jedi, like Luke, who lacked any orthodox training, was more what the Force wanted.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-09-26 12:33pm

Crom wrote:I dislike what I've read of Kevin J. Anderson's work too. I've never been able to enjoy his interpretation of the Star Wars universe.

For instance, I never thought that Luke would rebuild the Jedi Temple. If I've learned anything from the earlier movies was that the Temple was not a good thing. It polarized the Force, when I don't think the Force was meant to be split between the light and the dark side. The Jedi seemed to be all caught up with repression.

That's why Kyle Katarn rocks... no polarized force

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2002-09-26 12:34pm

Ok, in response to your original question:

Samauri in OUR WORLD influenced George in creating Jedi. There may or may not be actual samauri in the GFFA.

As for your current topic on the Jedi temple and recreation of the council, I've written a series of stories where my Jedi character stays as far away from Luke and the Academy as possible. She was originally trained by a Jedi Master and feels she has no need for the Academy.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-09-26 12:35pm

Crom wrote:My problem is not with the location of the new Jedi Temple, but with the fact that there is a Jedi temple at all. I just thought that creating an organization, trying to recreate the old Jedi order, is a mistake. In fact I thought that was something that the Force was against.

I felt that a half-trained Jedi, like Luke, who lacked any orthodox training, was more what the Force wanted.

Yes, that seems to be what "bring balance to the Force" was about. All that splittage between Dark and Light, did was unbalance the whole thingy.

BTW, IMO they were right: Vader did bring balance to the Force. There were too many friggin' Light Side jedis around.

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2002-09-26 12:35pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
Crom wrote:I dislike what I've read of Kevin J. Anderson's work too. I've never been able to enjoy his interpretation of the Star Wars universe.

For instance, I never thought that Luke would rebuild the Jedi Temple. If I've learned anything from the earlier movies was that the Temple was not a good thing. It polarized the Force, when I don't think the Force was meant to be split between the light and the dark side. The Jedi seemed to be all caught up with repression.
That's why Kyle Katarn rocks... no polarized force

KJA can rot in hell for all I care.

But Kyle was trained by HIS father, also a Jedi Master. See, individual training has its upsides!

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2002-09-26 12:41pm

Slartibartfast wrote: Yes, that seems to be what "bring balance to the Force" was about. All that splittage between Dark and Light, did was unbalance the whole thingy.

BTW, IMO they were right: Vader did bring balance to the Force. There were too many friggin' Light Side jedis around.

*ding ding ding*
The man gets a prize.

You hit the nail on the head. And that's why the council was so worried about Anakin. He was going to rock their little world.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-09-26 12:43pm

Kelly Antilles wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Crom wrote:I dislike what I've read of Kevin J. Anderson's work too. I've never been able to enjoy his interpretation of the Star Wars universe.

For instance, I never thought that Luke would rebuild the Jedi Temple. If I've learned anything from the earlier movies was that the Temple was not a good thing. It polarized the Force, when I don't think the Force was meant to be split between the light and the dark side. The Jedi seemed to be all caught up with repression.
That's why Kyle Katarn rocks... no polarized force
KJA can rot in hell for all I care.

But Kyle was trained by HIS father, also a Jedi Master. See, individual training has its upsides!

Was he? I only remember that he found an old saber left by his father inside some rusty droid. Where exactly is it stated that he was trained at all?

As far as I know, he was learning as he went (he practically becomes a Jedi from zero in a matter of days) but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-26 01:36pm

I think his dad gave him some subtle training by telling him to solve problems that required unconsiously using the force.

Darth Phoenix · Post by **Darth Phoenix** » 2002-09-26 01:46pm

I think katarn found his fathers lightsaber and started training has a jedi. I don't remenber his father giving him any lessons about the force.
i might be wrong.
By the way there is a chiss in jedi outcast.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-09-26 01:48pm

Darth Phoenix wrote:I think katarn found his fathers lightsaber and started training has a jedi. I don't remenber his father giving him any lessons about the force.
i might be wrong.

Never any formal training if I recall. Mostly just sublte teachings and hints. I believe Corran's father did the same.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-26 01:48pm

There's one in SW: Galactic Battlegrounds too. So what?

Darth Phoenix · Post by **Darth Phoenix** » 2002-09-26 01:50pm

has a bartender?!

greenmm · Post by **greenmm** » 2002-09-26 03:00pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
Crom wrote:My problem is not with the location of the new Jedi Temple, but with the fact that there is a Jedi temple at all. I just thought that creating an organization, trying to recreate the old Jedi order, is a mistake. In fact I thought that was something that the Force was against.

I felt that a half-trained Jedi, like Luke, who lacked any orthodox training, was more what the Force wanted.
Yes, that seems to be what "bring balance to the Force" was about. All that splittage between Dark and Light, did was unbalance the whole thingy.

BTW, IMO they were right: Vader did bring balance to the Force. There were too many friggin' Light Side jedis around.

I liked the little short comic that was in Tales Vol. 2. Aside from the humor in seeing Yoda and Windu in a fast food restaurant, Yoda in a highchair, and Yoda using the Force to "comp" his bill, though, I loved their dueling analogies.

Windu thought that Annakin would be like cream in coffee (or whatever they call it in SW): the cream is Light, the coffee is Dark, but stir them together and they become a uniform color. He saw Annakin as perhaps a way to bring the Dark back into the Jedi fold.

Yoda's viewpoint was like grains of salt. On one side, a huge-ass pile of salt -- The Jedi Order. On the other side, 2 grains of salt -- the Sith Master and his apprentice (since they knew that "always 2 are there", and that the Master had just lost his Apprentice). Yoda then blew on the big pile... until only 2 grains from the Order were left, and pointed out how both sides were now "in balance."

Sure, they wrote the story after we already knew that the only 2 surviving Jedi were Kenobi and Yoda (later represented by Yoda and Skywalker), with Vader and the Emperor for the Sith... but still an apt analogy, and extremely funny to see Windu's expression...

AL · Post by AL » 2002-09-26 04:31pm

why would luke rebuild the jedi temple?

I bet the Emperor left it standing as a reminder or a trophy. Look at how powerful I am, I exterminated the Jedi.

Once Coruscant was back in the Hand of the NR Luke would have learned alot about the Jedi History and how things work. THe force providing a way for the only Jedi to expand his knowledge and understanding of the Jedi and what it means to be a Jedi.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-26 04:35pm

I bet the Emperor left it standing as a reminder or a trophy. Look at how powerful I am, I exterminated the Jedi.

Once Coruscant was back in the Hand of the NR Luke would have learned alot about the Jedi History and how things work. THe force providing a way for the only Jedi to expand his knowledge and understanding of the Jedi and what it means to be a Jedi.

Yes but the Emperor cleaned all those records out, Remeber what happend? The Purges lead by Vadar aginst the last remain Jedi and the sons and daughters of the Jedi, ruthlessly hunted down all who knew about the Jedi Orders Teachings, The records themselves accorind to EU where all but destroyed except for a Copy on Dathomir and the Holocron which the Emperor himself held onto,

Everything else was destroyed

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2002-09-26 05:46pm

Kelly Antilles wrote:Ok, in response to your original question:

Samauri in OUR WORLD influenced George in creating Jedi. There may or may not be actual samauri in the GFFA.

As for your current topic on the Jedi temple and recreation of the council, I've written a series of stories where my Jedi character stays as far away from Luke and the Academy as possible. She was originally trained by a Jedi Master and feels she has no need for the Academy.

I really don't demand samurai in the Star Wars universe, what I was hoping for was people who used the Force without being Jedi. In factI was thinking about a fanfic on a planet outside the Republic about a man who was a Force-user, but had a different interpretation of what was going on.

I may have to read your fanfic, though, it sounds interesting.

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2002-09-26 05:52pm

AL wrote:why would luke rebuild the jedi temple?

I bet the Emperor left it standing as a reminder or a trophy. Look at how powerful I am, I exterminated the Jedi.

Once Coruscant was back in the Hand of the NR Luke would have learned alot about the Jedi History and how things work. THe force providing a way for the only Jedi to expand his knowledge and understanding of the Jedi and what it means to be a Jedi.

The Emperor exterminated the Jedi, which actually aided Luke, because it cleaned the slate for future Force-users. There was no more Jedi, and technically I would argue that Luke was not a Jedi. Basically I felt that Luke was setting up the whole situation that he had helped get the Universe out of in the movies.

Crom

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2002-09-26 06:33pm

Crom wrote: The Emperor exterminated the Jedi, which actually aided Luke, because it cleaned the slate for future Force-users. There was no more Jedi, and technically I would argue that Luke was not a Jedi. Basically I felt that Luke was setting up the whole situation that he had helped get the Universe out of in the movies.

Crom

Ok, if you think that, then explain Yoda? Why was he left alive?

(Yes, I know the answer to this question. I want HIS answer.)

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2002-09-26 09:58pm

Kelly Antilles wrote:
Ok, if you think that, then explain Yoda? Why was he left alive?

(Yes, I know the answer to this question. I want HIS answer.)

I'm not quite sure what you're asking, so I'm going to do my best.

First off, notice that I can't imagine anyone leaving Yoda alive. He's a Jedi Master, but not just any Jedi Master, he's openly recognized as the wisest and most powerful of the Jedi. Yoda's lived several centuries, I can't imagine he'd be easy to take down. He's had practice staying alive.

Secondly, I think it's shown in Episode II that Yoda is responsible for training children as they come into the Order. Everyone is trained by Yoda, Yoda practically is the Jedi Order.

Okay, now why leave Yoda, possibly the biggest threat to the Emperor? Well, that's really going to be shown in Episode III. If I were to guess, you'd notice that Yoda really isn't a threat by Empire Strikes Back. In fact, it's my guess is that Yoda is tired of fighting.

Do we see Yoda working to rebuild the Order or fight the Empire? No, he's hanging out in a swamp. Look at it from his shoes, every Jedi, when brought to the Order, was taught by him personally. And they're all dead. His entire family, his life work, has been utterly destroyed. And he saw it coming. That's a terrible burden to carry on. He's old, alone, and I think his death represents the death of the Old School of Jedi.

His being alive allows Luke to complete his training, although you'd notice that under Yoda's training Luke fails the final test of the Jedi. He never comes back to that, Luke finishes his training on his own. He never gets the indoctrination, and I think his costume illustrates that. he doesn't dress like a Jedi, which is important once you realize that EVERY Jedi dresses the same. I think it's a statement about how Luke really isn't a Jedi in the Yoda's school of the word.

I'm probably reaching now. But anyway, as far as I'm concerned Yoda's training of Luke was probably equivalent to the training a child gets apon arriving in the Order. No midi-chlorians, no here's how we dress, here's the CODE, none of that. Feel the Force, jump high, move some rocks, and see the future. That's it. And it's that simpler understanding of the Force that I think is more instanding with this foretold Balance.

Man, I hope I've answered your question.

~Crom

AL · Post by AL » 2002-09-26 10:25pm

Crom wrote:
AL wrote:why would luke rebuild the jedi temple?

I bet the Emperor left it standing as a reminder or a trophy. Look at how powerful I am, I exterminated the Jedi.

Once Coruscant was back in the Hand of the NR Luke would have learned alot about the Jedi History and how things work. THe force providing a way for the only Jedi to expand his knowledge and understanding of the Jedi and what it means to be a Jedi.
The Emperor exterminated the Jedi, which actually aided Luke, because it cleaned the slate for future Force-users. There was no more Jedi, and technically I would argue that Luke was not a Jedi. Basically I felt that Luke was setting up the whole situation that he had helped get the Universe out of in the movies.

Crom

The emperor proclaimed Luke a Jedi in rotj. "so be it...Jedi." That powerful a Sith Lord proclaiming someone a Jedi. That is a very power statement. If it was intentended that way or not is hard to say after all Lucas has not commented on this.

In your statement, you are saying even though Luke was instructed by Yoda, that Luke would be free to orgainze the New Jedi Order as he saw fit. I must diagree, Yoda stesses to Luke on many occasions that a Jedi hold the deepest commitment and made it a point to distiguish the darks side from the light.