StarDestroyer.Net BBS

The thread about Darksaber got me thinking: I hate a lot of the EU books.

Everything KJA did ranged from mediocre to crap.

I had the displeasure of reading the Courtship of Princess Leia, which was the complete pile of shit that followed the chronologically previous books (Allston's thankfully good Wraith Squadron series). It's one of the most poorly written books in the entire EU, beating out even KJA. None of the characters even remotely act like they should and the plot was a contrived fantasy kludge with a wholly unsatisfying ending.

And so far The New Rebellion is reading like an average fanfic, which is bad considering that it's a novel (in fact, I often put it off in favor of manga or something). The same thing for Children of the Jedi. And the Rogue Squadron books. They just didn't...pop. Mostly blah.

In fact, there are very few EU books I'd actively recommend to someone else.

We were made to suffer; it's our lot in life. Why can't they recruit decent authors who don't have a background mainly in fantasy?

Would you rather they recruit ST writers?

Kuja wrote:Would you rather they recruit ST writers?

Already have. Vonda N. McIntyre (Crystal Star) and Kristin Kathryn Rusch (New Rebellion).

Dalton wrote:

Kuja wrote:Would you rather they recruit ST writers?

Already have. Vonda N. McIntyre (Crystal Star) and Kristin Kathryn Rusch (New Rebellion).

I think my point has been made.


New Rebellion just fucking blew. Suddenly, one planet with three star destroyers is a threat to the ENTIRE REPUBLIC!

One thing I have a beef with is that NR politians can't do ANYTHING. Borsk Fey'lya wreaks havoc in the Thrawn trilogy and the X-wing series. Then we have political assholes sproating up in Courtship, Black Fleet Crisis, and New Rebllion. SW writers seem to have a huge brainbug that there must ALWAYS be some kind of political backstabber. It's a wonder the NR Senate ever got off the ground.

I knew there was a reason that I didn't like Crystal Star. And The Children of the Jedi was even worse. However, I recommend everything by Zahn, most of Stackpole, and Jeter (Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy). And of course, Salvatore is the man.

Kuja wrote:New Rebellion just fucking blew. Suddenly, one planet with three star destroyers is a threat to the ENTIRE REPUBLIC!

They weren't even Imperator class either, they were Victories for goodness sake! And all the NR managed to throw together was a Mon Cal Cruiser and a few smaller warships.

Planet of Twilight sucked the big ones, too. It seems that practically all of the Bantam novels were crap, with the exception of Zahn's work and some of Alston's stuff. Del Rey had to throw in their lot before we got any half-way decent writers to come in; and even then all we got was the NJO (half of which is garbage).

Anyone read Tatooine Ghost by Troy Denning? Now *that's* a story that goes back to the roots. Very good book.

Dalton wrote:Anyone read Tatooine Ghost by Troy Denning? Now *that's* a story that goes back to the roots. Very good book.

It's Troy Denning! He wrote Star By Star too, both excellent books.

Dalton wrote:

Kuja wrote:Would you rather they recruit ST writers?

Already have. Vonda N. McIntyre (Crystal Star) and Kristin Kathryn Rusch (New Rebellion).

And Alan Dean Foster (Splinter of the Mind's Eye).

YT300000 wrote: And Alan Dean Foster (Splinter of the Mind's Eye).

Foster's written ST?

Kuja wrote:

YT300000 wrote: And Alan Dean Foster (Splinter of the Mind's Eye).

Foster's written ST?

The Star Trek Log series. They are fairly entertaining books, and keep with what TOS did (don't break with canon).

Dark Journey, is absolutely horrible. About half the NJO books are merely mediocre.

The NJO has been an entirely mixed bag...weak beginning, very strong middle to late middle (with the exception of the horrible Dark Journey, again), and it looks like the end is going to be weak as well. The last two books have been a step down in quality from Remnant, Traitor, and Destiny's Way, and the authors haven't really made an attempt to start winding anything down despite there only being two books left. And the next book, The Final Prophecy, will probably be just pointless filler like the last two books have been, with the final book bringing the arc to a very rushed conclusion.

Dalton wrote:

Kuja wrote:Would you rather they recruit ST writers?

Already have. Vonda N. McIntyre (Crystal Star) and Kristin Kathryn Rusch (New Rebellion).

True but AC Crispin who is another Trek writer did a pretty damn good job with the second Han Solo trilogy. Good books if you ask me, one of the best in the EU if you ask me.

New Rebellion pissed me off. The fact that the villian had a hand held transmitter capable of sending a signal across the galaxy to detonate bombs in droids is idiocy.

Dalton wrote:We were made to suffer; it's our lot in life. Why can't they recruit decent authors who don't have a background mainly in fantasy?

I don't know why they have such difficulty in getting good writers. I suspect it's just a lack of effort. They seem to be after authors that have made a name for themself without ever really looking at the quality of their work. If they had some of the writers that publish in Star Wars Tales then they'd have gold mine, but they never gave any of them a shot.

I don't know why they do it. It's not just the nature of franchise writing, WH40K manages a standard of writing far in excess of that of the EU. And even some of the other lesser franchises have done so as well. I think it just comes down to Lucasbooks being unwilling to put forth the effort to nuture real talent.

Oh, and add the Bounty Hunter War books to that. Just crappy books that never seemed to go anywhere. The atmosphere tried to be going to for black and gritty but never quite made it. Instead it just came off ridiculous.

Now that I think about it Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter had the same problem.

I highly enjoyed Shadow Hunter.

YT300000 wrote:I highly enjoyed Shadow Hunter.

The comic was cool, even if a tad ridiculous "Hey Maul, could you just swing by BLACK SUN--the most powerful criminal orginization in the galaxy, second only to the Empire itself--and kill everybody? Yeah, thanks."

Shadow Hunter was boring.

Stormbringer wrote:True but AC Crispin who is another Trek writer did a pretty damn good job with the second Han Solo trilogy. Good books if you ask me, one of the best in the EU if you ask me.

Oh, I'm by no means saying that someone who wrote ST books would automatically be a shitty EU author. I liked Crispin's Han Solo books too (even if I thought the Brian Daley books were much, much better).

The books that are so far the cream of the crop to me (of what I have, anyway) are the five Zahn novels, all of Allston's X-Wing books, the Daley Han Solo books, Denning's Tatooine Ghost, and the three Crispin Han Solo books.

I've never read NJO though. I hope they come out with some compilations soon.

There are pretty much 9 NJO books that I could honestly recommend paying full paperback price for.

Dark Tide 1&2
Edge of Victory 1&2
Star by Star
Enemy Lines 1&2
Traitor
Destiny's Way


Remnant is debatable, and it slides downhill from there. Agents of Chaos was dreck, and Balance Point was miserable enough that I managed to convince my self I had read it once rather than finish it.

Might be quicker to list those I did enjoy.


Both Zahn series are good reads. Despite what people say about chiss wanking and minimalist writing, the fact remains they are entertaining books that are damn hard to put down.

Allston's stuff rocks, Wraith squadron was good, but it could have been better if not for the fact that it was written in a forced period. I believe that had he been able to go with his own ending instead of complying with CoPL, it could have been outstanding. Rebel lines ruled, but the fact that all he established was shot out the airlock in DW undercuts it. Now Starfighters of Adumar though, that stands tall above the rest of the EU. Only book to not invlove force sensitives in some way shape or form, funny as all get out, and brilliant when it comes to the resolution of Wedge's romance life and fitting the broken timeline there.

I, Jedi was very good. One of the things that always gets me with Stackpole is that his characters come off as preachy. But this was one time when it worked. Corran and the other Padawans, or Corran and the Camassi (whose name escapes me now) discussing moral use of the force is great because one fo the points that KJA never came close to covering is how the Jedi, having lost all their teachings, have to relearn how to properly use their powers. The fact that it fixed continuity errors (EG what hapened to Kam after DE 2 because he wasn't in the JAT) was great, the fact that it was still a good read after rehashing all of KJA's hackwork for the first third is a testament to Stackpole's skill.

Bacta War holds a special place for me just because it was the first SW EU I ever read.

Cloak of Deception by James Luceano (sp?), while the plot was a bit dry, was amazing if you had a keen eye for details. Read through the passages with Palpatine (especially when he is meeting with the rebel groups leader) and look for the little things. You can see that Palpy is using the force to influence people, and it outlines the base differences between the OR and the core, differences that lead to the Clone Wars.

Troy Denning, well, superlatives fail me. I simply cannot heap enough praise on the man for both Tatooine's Ghost and Star by Star. NJO has been hit or miss, but had he written the whole thing...

the Black Fleet Trilogy is nice because you get a view of how the republic, particularily the military, is rebuilding in the wake of Palpatine's devestation, Thrawn's campaing, and Kyp & Dalaa's terrorism. Other then that rather forgettable.

NJO Conquest, people say the turnaround with the NJO started with SbS, I disagree. here we really started to see the inner workings of the Vong, and it changed them from being 2D evil villans of the week to a real culture to clash with. It also really built up Anakin, which made his death all the more shocking.

SW Tales: Duty. I'd just like to see that in ep3. Few words, yet so much power.

NJO Conquest, people say the turnaround with the NJO started with SbS, I disagree. here we really started to see the inner workings of the Vong, and it changed them from being 2D evil villans of the week to a real culture to clash with. It also really built up Anakin, which made his death all the more shocking.

This was one of my favorites, too. I read it in one sitting.

Oh, and the Courtship of Princess Leia deserves exclusion from the suck-list, IMO.

Dalton wrote:Anyone read Tatooine Ghost by Troy Denning? Now *that's* a story that goes back to the roots. Very good book.

I did!

I agree with many of your choices, Rob. I wish I could like the Rogue Squadron books, but the way the Imperials are portrayed as complete idiots, while Wedge and the A-Team get away with intricate yet simple plans made me want to hurt people. In "Bacta War" we had an ISD captain literally become a drooling moron. In "Wraith Squadron" an ISD captain that decides there's no reason to move his ship while its being torn to pieces by a BLOCKADE RUNNER hovering over a moon. A book where an ISD captain that abandons his primary mission to destroy a RS base and uses his ISD to try to capture the Falcon instead of sending the hundreds of support craft locked up in its hangars to handle this secondary objective. RS always "just happen" to run into "green" pilots who are so stupid they follow their dead wingmen into sides of canyons and buildings.

Now I'm getting pissed again. Where's RSA....

Lord Poe wrote:I did!

And of course, I must again profusely thank my Lord Poe for recommending that book to me

Lord Poe wrote:I agree with many of your choices, Rob. I wish I could like the Rogue Squadron books, but the way the Imperials are portrayed as complete idiots, while Wedge and the A-Team get away with intricate yet simple plans made me want to hurt people. In "Bacta War" we had an ISD captain literally become a drooling moron. In "Wraith Squadron" an ISD captain that decides there's no reason to move his ship while its being torn to pieces by a BLOCKADE RUNNER hovering over a moon. A book where an ISD captain that abandons his primary mission to destroy a RS base and uses his ISD to try to capture the Falcon instead of sending the hundreds of support craft locked up in its hangars to handle this secondary objective. RS always "just happen" to run into "green" pilots who are so stupid they follow their dead wingmen into sides of canyons and buildings.

Now I'm getting pissed again. Where's RSA....

Heh, sorry. Yeah, the Imperials were often morons, but it's not like they didn't get their fair share of beating the shit out of the Rebs.

Lord Poe wrote: I agree with many of your choices, Rob. I wish I could like the Rogue Squadron books, but the way the Imperials are portrayed as complete idiots, while Wedge and the A-Team get away with intricate yet simple plans made me want to hurt people

Argh, you've brought back the bad memories!