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Will someone with technical skills go through the timeframe for the AOTC movie,capture some stills and post it up?

From the AOTC VCD Disc II, the frames from 44:43-44:47 and 44:37-44:40

For the later, there seems to have been a shield reaction on the LAAT when hit. On the first, the LAAT was hit, but no visible carbonisation was seen, as opposed to frames from 45:00-45:10.

I don't know if this is the exact scene you're looking for, but the good Doctor has this pic on his site:

Image linked for people with shitty resolutions

Oh, and wtf? You have the VCD of AOTC? Did you miss the memo about DVD players or something?

VCDs are still very popular in mainland and south Asia because of their widespread use and low costs.

Can't the first two images also be chalked up to a flak burst effect? Trying to knock down the fats moving LAATs the Separatists swicthed to flak burst mode to try and increase their chances for a hit. Besides the distance involved seems to be rather large, in the arena we saw something more akin to skin hugging shields as the laser bolts bounced off as they touched the bellies of the LAATs.

The lats one is most definately a shield interaction of some kind.

I'll say this before IP jumps on your ass:

Flakbursts don't exist.

That is all...

Stravo wrote:Can't the first two images also be chalked up to a flak burst effect?

Doesn't exist, as Spanky said.

Stravo wrote:Trying to knock down the fats moving LAATs the Separatists swicthed to flak burst mode to try and increase their chances for a hit.

Wow. Flakbursts producing smaller explosions than modern AA missiles damaging SW-level shielding.

Stravo wrote:Besides the distance involved seems to be rather large, in the arena we saw something more akin to skin hugging shields as the laser bolts bounced off as they touched the bellies of the LAATs.

Brainbug. Shield interactions are not created equal. Shields do not terminate at any specific point, according to the films and the AOTC ICS.

Stravo wrote:The lats one is most definately a shield interaction of some kind.

Just like the others. In some frames you'll even notice that the bolt keeps going through the "flakburst." They're all shield interactions.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I'll say this before IP jumps on your ass:

Flakbursts don't exist.

That is all...

Then please explain how in TESB AT-AT's shot at the T-47's, and the blasts exploded in midair. Mike says it is a special AA mode.

YT300000 wrote:

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I'll say this before IP jumps on your ass:

Flakbursts don't exist.

That is all...

Then please explain how in TESB AT-AT's shot at the T-47's, and the blasts exploded in midair. Mike says it is a special AA mode.

Wow. Do you get up and think: "I'm a perpetual newb and can use the Appeal to Authority fallacy."?

What's to say that the T-47s don't have shields?

And care to link to your claim?

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

YT300000 wrote:

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I'll say this before IP jumps on your ass:

Flakbursts don't exist.

That is all...

Then please explain how in TESB AT-AT's shot at the T-47's, and the blasts exploded in midair. Mike says it is a special AA mode.

Wow. Do you get up and think: "I'm a perpetual newb and can use the Appeal to Authority fallacy."?

What's to say that the T-47s don't have shields?

BoP is on you to show they do

And care to link to your claim?

Last TL thread

Ender wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

YT300000 wrote: Then please explain how in TESB AT-AT's shot at the T-47's, and the blasts exploded in midair. Mike says it is a special AA mode.

Wow. Do you get up and think: "I'm a perpetual newb and can use the Appeal to Authority fallacy."?

What's to say that the T-47s don't have shields?

BoP is on you to show they do

Perhaps, but apparently it was evidence enough for everyone to accept that TIEs have shields when someone isolated lasers terminating in bursts next to TIEs in the Falcon chase.

Ender wrote:Last TL thread

I'm not digging through whichever of the billion threads for it. He made the claim and appealed to it, so he can link to it.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Ender wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote: Wow. Do you get up and think: "I'm a perpetual newb and can use the Appeal to Authority fallacy."?

What's to say that the T-47s don't have shields?

BoP is on you to show they do

Perhaps, but apparently it was evidence enough for everyone to accept that TIEs have shields when someone isolated lasers terminating in bursts next to TIEs in the Falcon chase.

Ties are irrelevent. BoP is still on you to show snowspeeders are shielded

Ender wrote:Last TL thread

I'm not digging through whichever of the billion threads for it. He made the claim and appealed to it, so he can link to it.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... ion+theory
IIRC

Ender wrote:Ties are irrelevent. BoP is still on you to show snowspeeders are shielded

Wow! No beams, who woulda thought.

Actually the burden of proof is on people to demonstrate that those are, in fact, purposely-generated energy bolts magically blowing up, which is, in my experience, what people mean by "flakbursting".

The fact that Hoth was a combined arms assault, and AT-ATs have unidentified tubes above their side guns, and the fact that "flak" in the novelisations are associated with "explosive solids" it could simply be physical ordinance exploding.

Not to mention that there's all manner of odd TL behavior, possibly a rapidly deactivated LS beam flash heats atmosphere when cut-off (before the destructive pulse) which explains why terminated TLs above the Death Star had no burst: no atmosphere to interact with.

Personally, what I want to see is a real hypothesis for purposeful flakbursting of energy weapons. And not one already kicked to death in the below thread.

Ender wrote:

Ender wrote:Last TL thread

I'm not digging through whichever of the billion threads for it. He made the claim and appealed to it, so he can link to it.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... ion+theory
IIRC

Last of Billion Damned TL Tech Threads

the current hypothesis is that flak weapons are explosive solids, and they look like energy blasts because missiles and torpedos on the OT are all colored to look as such.


This does not at all change the fact you tried to shift the burden of proof onto him when it was your responsibility to prove they were shielded as you originally proposed. You asked him to prove a negative very clearly.

Insofar as I am aware they don't have shields. In fact, official evidence (which can only be overriden by direct conflict with canon) indicates otherwise (IE unshielded.)

We could say in reverse that the AT-ATs simply carry the "projectile" style blaster cannons (possibly the side turrets) and those are what are generating the flak bursts. Its also possible they are concussion grenades from supporting AT-STs (which are known officially to carry projectile weapons.)

Ender wrote:the current hypothesis is that flak weapons are explosive solids, and they look like energy blasts because missiles and torpedos on the OT are all colored to look as such.

The proton torpedoes do NOT look like blaster bolts. Neither do concussion missiles.

And where is this hypothesis, is it one that's been going on for awhile? And it still is irrelevent with perspective to the LAAT shields, since energy beams have been observed to pass through so called "flakbursts."

Better yet, why do these projectiles not arc in gravity?

Ender wrote:This does not at all change the fact you tried to shift the burden of proof onto him when it was your responsibility to prove they were shielded as you originally proposed. You asked him to prove a negative very clearly.

Hence "perhaps," hence an admission that it was true. I was venting on a past irritation that it was good enough that there were little blasts for everyone to run around the universally declare "down with the EU" because now TIEs had shields.

Conceeded on the Shifting of the Burden of Proof Fallacy. Which is why I dropped that point. I think a combination of Mad's theory and odd atmospheric affects explains the job alright though.

The bolts shot at the LAATs were definitely NOT projectiles though.

Note: What have I told IP about checking his sources before making claims? Or is this going to be one of those "I'm going to crawl into my canon shell and not come out" arguments that I used to have with SB trekkies?

Connor MacLeod wrote:We could say in reverse that the AT-ATs simply carry the "projectile" style blaster cannons (possibly the side turrets) and those are what are generating the flak bursts. Its also possible they are concussion grenades from supporting AT-STs (which are known officially to carry projectile weapons.)

Indeed, which would explain bursts out of nowhere; projectiles moving at velocities to quick to see explode in mid-air near T-47s. It is possible that the Imperials originally dispatched concussion fire against the civilian airspeeders before it became apparent they were more upgraded and armored.

Connor MacLeod wrote:Note: What have I told IP about checking his sources before making claims? Or is this going to be one of those "I'm going to crawl into my canon shell and not come out" arguments that I used to have with SB trekkies?

I thought there had been speculation/sources on the shielding of T-47s at Hoth. But I think now that the speculation about shields in the Battle of Hoth had been regarding the AT-ATs, not the T-47s.

EDIT: I was thinking of this post,

Ender wrote:

Lord Poe wrote:

Connor MacLeod wrote:On top of that, flak bursting would be supremely effective in ground combat (such as oh.. . Geonosis?) Yet we hardly ever see it used.

What do you mean, "hardly ever"? We saw it on the ground combat with the walkers around the speeders at Hoth

Walkers are shielded

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... &start=200

there.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Connor MacLeod wrote:Note: What have I told IP about checking his sources before making claims? Or is this going to be one of those "I'm going to crawl into my canon shell and not come out" arguments that I used to have with SB trekkies?

I thought there had been speculation/sources on the shielding of T-47s at Hoth. But I think now that the speculation about shields in the Battle of Hoth had been regarding the AT-ATs, not the T-47s.

I only engaged in that as one of several possible scenarios because in the flak burst debates I encountered a lack of flexibility in reasoning.

I might point out that the lack in observed "drop" could be explained if the blaster cannons are firing a massless "targeting laser" at low power. There are numerous precedents for this (B-wings are capable of it, but there are other examples such as Wraith squadron.) Such a "Tracer" might very well be a guidance for the projectile as well.

So you're saying the projectile is self-propelled and follows a level-flight pattern along the targetting laser path?

And the B-Wing's targetting laser is an optional attachment to one of its hardpoints, IIRC, it is not a function of the blaster cannon.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Ender wrote:

Lord Poe wrote: What do you mean, "hardly ever"? We saw it on the ground combat with the walkers around the speeders at Hoth

Walkers are shielded

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... &start=200

there.

I can't say why he says Walkers are shielded.

Walkers could very well posess the same kind of "powered" armor mentioned in the AOTC ICS for LAATs. But our primary evidence for shields in the LAAT case comes from the novels. Luke specifies the armor being the defensive mechanism giving the Rebels problems in TESB (although that doesnt rule out augmentation of the armor by other systems.)

Connor MacLeod wrote:*snip*

There's Star's End-style anticoncussion fields.

Connor MacLeod wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Ender wrote:Walkers are shielded

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... &start=200

there.

I can't say why he says Walkers are shielded.

Walkers could very well posess the same kind of "powered" armor mentioned in the AOTC ICS for LAATs. But our primary evidence for shields in the LAAT case comes from the novels. Luke specifies the armor being the defensive mechanism giving the Rebels problems in TESB (although that doesnt rule out augmentation of the armor by other systems.)

It is based off a rather ambigious sentance in the OT ICS, as later posts in that thread show. it can be read as walkers have shields, or that the armor is being described as shielding the walkers contents.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:So you're saying the projectile is self-propelled and follows a level-flight pattern along the targetting laser path?

Could be. Its hard to tell what sort of path the projectile might follow (or the velocity it moves at) because we can't see it (the fact that "explosions" occur without a tracer in existence suggests this in fact.

And the B-Wing's targetting laser is an optional attachment to one of its hardpoints, IIRC, it is not a function of the blaster cannon.

According to what? I would love to hear this source.

It functions as a separate laser cannon. It is in fact treated as such in at least 3 sources I can name (Galaxy Guide 5, SWTJ, and EGV&V. On top of that, there is STILL the targeting laser reference from Wraith Squadron - Wedge confuses targeting lasers for full-powered bursts. A similar tactic to what is employed in confusing Yuuzhan Vong dovin basals, I might add. ) Either way, it supports my theory nicely.