StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I picked the book up at Books a Million yesterday. I had hoped that the book's content would be improved from the last version. Yet when I reached the page for the AT-AT I saw the words "Height:15m" staring back at me. Adding insult to injury, the Executor is still listed as 12.8 km. Another problem I had with the book was that the background for some of the vehicles didn't make much sense. According to the book the Acclamator class assault ship was made obsolete by introduction of Star Destroyers. Yet the two vessels functions in warfare are completely different. I could easily see a modernized version off the Acclamator still being used by the Empire. They describe the SPHA-T as having treads yet anyone who watched AOTC can tell you the thing was a walker.

The book isn't entirely bad. The art is great, very detailed and in entirely in color. There is a very interesting section in the beginning of the book that lists many of the major manfacturers in the galaxy and gives about a good bit of background on each. (Kuat Drive yards was a major galactic corporation nearly 5,000 years before the events of Ep4!) There is also an appendices section that recounts, in moderate detail, the major battles of all the films so far. This sort of thing is done better in the Inside the Worlds series of books, particularly the maps of the battlefield showing troop positions and movements, but the effort is appreciated.

I recommend the book mainly because it has all of the new vehicles from TPM, AOTC, and NJO. In addition, the physical quality of the book is very good. But some of you may find the glaring inaccuracies enough reason to avoid the purchase.

So, basically, it has the same strengths and weaknesses as older Essential Guide Variants.

Well, that the super star destroyer is now listed as 12.8 km in length is an improvement. It used to be just 8 km. It should be around 17 km though.

That's what you get when you AVERAGE the two lengths. Utterly absurd.

Maybe they think 17 kilometers is still too long.

. They describe the SPHA-T as having treads yet anyone who watched AOTC can tell you the thing was a walker.

That's probably because the orginal did have treads and they just fucked up.

Save your money. You'll have to get the new NEW Essential Guide after
EP 3 comes out.

According to the book the Acclamator class assault ship was made obsolete by introduction of Star Destroyers. Yet the two vessels functions in warfare are completely different.

There's more than one means to achieve obsolescence. For example, note that the reactor systems of the two vessels look very dissimilar... perhaps the power generators on the Acc are less efficient? Or some other piece of technology, integral to the Acc design, was rendered obsolete by a superior design on the ISD?

It's like how vacuum tube computers are obsolete, even though Pentium 4 desktop PC's aren't used to calculate artillery trajectories.

Lord Poe wrote:Save your money. You'll have to get the new NEW Essential Guide after
EP 3 comes out.

You sure that'll be the end of it? I can envision another addition after that, with more EU material.

beyond hope wrote:You sure that'll be the end of it? I can envision another addition after that, with more EU material.

True. Stick to the ICS, then.

SPOOFE wrote:

According to the book the Acclamator class assault ship was made obsolete by introduction of Star Destroyers. Yet the two vessels functions in warfare are completely different.

There's more than one means to achieve obsolescence. For example, note that the reactor systems of the two vessels look very dissimilar... perhaps the power generators on the Acc are less efficient? Or some other piece of technology, integral to the Acc design, was rendered obsolete by a superior design on the ISD?

It's like how vacuum tube computers are obsolete, even though Pentium 4 desktop PC's aren't used to calculate artillery trajectories.

Given the general lack of rapid advances in star wars tech, even over thousands of years it just seems implausible to me that the Acclamator would become obsolete so fast. Particularly since based on all the behind-the-scenes stuff I've read there's a distinct possibility we may actually see full blown OT ISD's in Episode 3. That would shorten the time from 40 or so years to 3!

I could see it if that the Acclamator was superseded by a better troopship. But the ISD is designed for ship-to-ship combat. A role that has considerably different requirements in the long run from landing 16,000 troops and supporting them in battle. In my opinion the two ships actually complement each other very well and make sense within the Republic/Imperial fleet as a whole.

The Acclamator carries more troops, more cargo and equipment and can get to critical areas faster than an ISD(Class.6 hyperdrvie vs. a class 1). Just due to the ship's basic physical design, it makes more sense if one wants to deploy troops into combat. On the other side of the coin the ISD outguns the Acclamator considerably making it much more suited to blowing the hell out of enemy capships.

I think it's just typical EU uncreativity assuming that the Republic would use Acclamators in the same manner that the Empire used Star Destroyers. IIRC, some Clone Wars story a while back had the Republic sending 20 Acclamators to defend a planet. This sort of laziness is what gave us those ridiculously incorrect numbers for the Executor class and AT-AT.

The ICS is higher-level canon anyway, since each ICS book is directly tied to a movie.

Clone Sergeant wrote: Another problem I had with the book was that the background for some of the vehicles didn't make much sense. According to the book the Acclamator class assault ship was made obsolete by introduction of Star Destroyers. Yet the two vessels functions in warfare are completely different. I could easily see a modernized version off the Acclamator still being used by the Empire.

The role of the fleet was radically changed from "conquer the seeperatists" to "patrol the spacelanes". the change in goals means a change in design means the old design is obselete because it doesn' fulfill the new role as well.


That said, the real reason for that statement is probably because the author doesn't grasp the difference between a troop transport and a destroyer.

Clone Sergeant wrote:

SPOOFE wrote:

According to the book the Acclamator class assault ship was made obsolete by introduction of Star Destroyers. Yet the two vessels functions in warfare are completely different.

There's more than one means to achieve obsolescence. For example, note that the reactor systems of the two vessels look very dissimilar... perhaps the power generators on the Acc are less efficient? Or some other piece of technology, integral to the Acc design, was rendered obsolete by a superior design on the ISD?

It's like how vacuum tube computers are obsolete, even though Pentium 4 desktop PC's aren't used to calculate artillery trajectories.

Given the general lack of rapid advances in star wars tech, even over thousands of years it just seems implausible to me that the Acclamator would become obsolete so fast. Particularly since based on all the behind-the-scenes stuff I've read there's a distinct possibility we may actually see full blown OT ISD's in Episode 3. That would shorten the time from 40 or so years to 3!

I could see it if that the Acclamator was superseded by a better troopship. But the ISD is designed for ship-to-ship combat. A role that has considerably different requirements in the long run from landing 16,000 troops and supporting them in battle. In my opinion the two ships actually complement each other very well and make sense within the Republic/Imperial fleet as a whole.

The Acclamator carries more troops, more cargo and equipment and can get to critical areas faster than an ISD(Class.6 hyperdrvie vs. a class 1). Just due to the ship's basic physical design, it makes more sense if one wants to deploy troops into combat. On the other side of the coin the ISD outguns the Acclamator considerably making it much more suited to blowing the hell out of enemy capships.

I think it's just typical EU uncreativity assuming that the Republic would use Acclamators in the same manner that the Empire used Star Destroyers. IIRC, some Clone Wars story a while back had the Republic sending 20 Acclamators to defend a planet. This sort of laziness is what gave us those ridiculously incorrect numbers for the Executor class and AT-AT.

See my post

Clone Sergeant wrote:Given the general lack of rapid advances in star wars tech, even over thousands of years it just seems implausible to me that the Acclamator would become obsolete so fast.

Agreed for reasons of technological stasis. The only good explanation is that the Acclamator was a flawed design, and that a better one was made after the weaknesses in the Acclamator were discovered.

Even in a society which experiences technological stasis, things must still be designed, and mistakes can happen even with an extremely well-understood technology. They don't even have to be outright negligence; the design might actually be good but the design specs were poorly suited to its application. Given the absence of a full-scale Republic army for a millenium, it's possible that they decided to do a ground-up new design for the Acclamator rather than trying to dig up old plans for troop transports.

Darth Wong wrote:

Clone Sergeant wrote:Given the general lack of rapid advances in star wars tech, even over thousands of years it just seems implausible to me that the Acclamator would become obsolete so fast.

Agreed for reasons of technological stasis. The only good explanation is that the Acclamator was a flawed design, and that a better one was made after the weaknesses in the Acclamator were discovered.

Even in a society which experiences technological stasis, things must still be designed, and mistakes can happen even with an extremely well-understood technology. They don't even have to be outright negligence; the design might actually be good but the design specs were poorly suited to its application. Given the absence of a full-scale Republic army for a millenium, it's possible that they decided to do a ground-up new design for the Acclamator rather than trying to dig up old plans for troop transports.

I have no issue with the Acc. being flawed, becoming outdated or unsuited to new requirements. I just take issue with the author's implication that a destroyer can replace the role of a troopship in a navy. If he really wanted to talk about the eventual fate of the Acc. and have it make actual sense he could have said the ship was too small to carry AT-AT's and other newer, larger walkers(which I believe it is),so it was phased out in favor of a better vessel.

The Accalamator could be considered an assault amphibious ship, right? Well, it would seem to me, that the ISD, with its larger complement of turbolasers, fighters, heavier shields and armour would be just as capable of wading through enemy defences to drop troops on the planet.

Considering that an ISD is a multi-role ship, its not implausible that they decided to swap a single role, capable assault ship, with a multi role destroyer that can also fulfill the roles of landing troops, albeit at a lesser efficiency.

PainRack wrote:The Accalamator could be considered an assault amphibious ship, right? Well, it would seem to me, that the ISD, with its larger complement of turbolasers, fighters, heavier shields and armour would be just as capable of wading through enemy defences to drop troops on the planet.

Considering that an ISD is a multi-role ship, its not implausible that they decided to swap a single role, capable assault ship, with a multi role destroyer that can also fulfill the roles of landing troops, albeit at a lesser efficiency.

Pretty much my thoughts. If you look at the progression from Acc. to Vic. to ISD, you can see a progression of military doctrine.

The Acclamators were pretty well armed troop transports for the new Clone Army. Then they had to come up with a escort for the Acclamators so you get the Victory. A dedicated warship with little if no troop capcity. In the end, it seems that the Empire welded the two schools of thought together for the Imperator. A ship that is a ship of the line but is still capable of carring troops and their support craft.

The ISD could make the Acc obsolete without actually replacing it ship-for-ship.

Keep in mind that Acclamators were used as multi-role craft at Geonosis, and carry sufficient firepower to devastate a planetary surface, so they're not exactly what you'd call an analogue to a modern troop transport.

It's possible that they get thumped in some battle somewhere so they decided to switch to multi-role craft with a greater emphasis on firepower rather than cargo capacity.

Clone Sergeant wrote:

SPOOFE wrote:

According to the book the Acclamator class assault ship was made obsolete by introduction of Star Destroyers. Yet the two vessels functions in warfare are completely different.

There's more than one means to achieve obsolescence. For example, note that the reactor systems of the two vessels look very dissimilar... perhaps the power generators on the Acc are less efficient? Or some other piece of technology, integral to the Acc design, was rendered obsolete by a superior design on the ISD?

It's like how vacuum tube computers are obsolete, even though Pentium 4 desktop PC's aren't used to calculate artillery trajectories.

Given the general lack of rapid advances in star wars tech, even over thousands of years it just seems implausible to me that the Acclamator would become obsolete so fast. Particularly since based on all the behind-the-scenes stuff I've read there's a distinct possibility we may actually see full blown OT ISD's in Episode 3. That would shorten the time from 40 or so years to 3!

I could see it if that the Acclamator was superseded by a better troopship. But the ISD is designed for ship-to-ship combat. A role that has considerably different requirements in the long run from landing 16,000 troops and supporting them in battle. In my opinion the two ships actually complement each other very well and make sense within the Republic/Imperial fleet as a whole.
<snip>

Well although i agree that the ISD being a linear descendant of the Acclamator (rendering it obselete) seems farfetched to me you need to also rememebr that the ISD is NOT a pure combat vehicle. The Republic-era Dreadnoughts, several of the heavy battlecruisers seen in the Marvel series, etc those are the true fleet combat ships. The ISD is a multipurpose vessel. It serves as a combination of an amphibious assault landing dockship and a naval cruiser (note on that the novelisations specifically reference the ISDs as being "cruisers").

Once again they are a multi-role vessel and thus can be considered to be a next generation advancement upon the Acclamator as that ship was designed as a troopship (pure LHD) that was pressed into multi-role service. Thus the ISD fills in the role that the Acclamator was forced into not designed for). AS such the ISD is the descendant of the Acclamator's role if not her design principles.

Its interesting that they provide acceleration specs. Unfortunatly they are mostly wrong.

CmdrWilkens wrote:<snip>

I agree with what your saying. I just was annoyed at that the book makes such a broad statement that could misinterpreted by Joe Everyfan to mean that the Empire/Republic uses destroyers and troopships interchangably in warfare.

Overall, the artwork is pretty, but the text is a rehash from the previous guide and it seems he did a very brief read through of alot of descriptions (EG claims that a proton torp releases a stream of protons instead of being a nuke, vong stuff has the barest resemblence to the descriptions in the books). Lot of stuff you would expect is missing (VSDs and the Death Stars totally gone, Dreadnaughts get a tiny blurb), and stuff that was barely in the books is there (Jabitha, or the Inferneo).


And would someone please explain to me how a shit that can go FTL, make kilometers/sec accelerations in space, and mount KT level lasers, can only go the same speed as a WW2 fighter in the atmosphere?


oh, and

page 17 wrote: A trio of A-wings single-handedly destroyed the Executor, Darth Vader's personal Super Star Destroyer, at the Battle of Endor.

Ender wrote:Overall, the artwork is pretty, but the text is a rehash from the previous guide

That's too bad. I was really looking forward to it. Oh well, maybe I'll put that towards the Worlds of AOTC instead.

page 17 wrote: A trio of A-wings single-handedly destroyed the Executor, Darth Vader's personal Super Star Destroyer, at the Battle of Endor.

"The Author Would Like to Thank:
George Lucas, Steve Sansweet, Enabaran_Tain..."

*sigh* Oh well.