A mechanism for Slave-1 Seismic Charges

[Sriad]

I was thinkin' maybe they're discs of some supersciencey material that're spun until they reach whatever energy level is needed, then a charge in the center of the disc is detonated, and we get the nifty radial devestation effect as shown in AOTC. Whaddayah think?

[Ender]

I was thinkin' maybe they're discs of some supersciencey material that're spun until they reach whatever energy level is needed, then a charge in the center of the disc is detonated, and we get the nifty radial devestation effect as shown in AOTC. Whaddayah think?

I think the idea of using force fields to direct the blast is far more realiztic then your vague, and frankly crack addled explanation.

That or the explosion is spherical and the rings are just isotropic.

[Slartibartfast]

Well we do see the ring shattering stuff. And we see the Jedi fighter escaping destruction by moving out of the ring's plane. I don't think it can be a sphere.

[Sriad]

I was thinkin' maybe they're discs of some supersciencey material that're spun until they reach whatever energy level is needed, then a charge in the center of the disc is detonated, and we get the nifty radial devestation effect as shown in AOTC. Whaddayah think?

I think the idea of using force fields to direct the blast is far more realiztic then your vague, and frankly crack addled explanation.

That or the explosion is spherical and the rings are just isotropic.

Right. Using force fields to shape radial explosions in a starship conflict would be way more realistic than using explosives to shape radial explosions in a starship conflict. What was I thinking?

Right, it's a SF environment. Force fields are fine...
My explanation is vague becuase I don't know what kind of materials it would be made out of, what would shape the blast (force field, explosives, maybe it's just built to blow up in one exact way, whatever.), and I'm generally not up on Star Wars design principles. I was just pointing out a way to make the things work that would satisfy all the evidence we saw on screen, seeing as there's no speculation on this to be found anywhere else on the site.

But anyway.
Here's a more detailed speculation, which may be wrong in the specifics because I don't know as much about SW stuff as some people here:
The idea is that we want to produce some hideously destructive event that happens on only one plane.
So what we do is make a flawlessly balanced disc or a ring out of some very strong material, like neutronium armor. Then we spin it until it's only barely holding it's shape against the centripital acceleration, and then when we want it to blow up, some extra kick is applied: an explosion in the middle of the ring, a force field, whatever. The ring shatters into very small particals, which fly out radially at some rediculous speed, and they slam into things on a directed plane, yielding the effects we saw in AOTC.

[Cyborg Stan]

From what I remember of AOTC (which for the scene in question, is rather vague), the seismic charge plane moved slowly, glowed blue and was possibly translucent, and didn't seem to be too slowed down by the asteroids it cut through, and seemed to impart momentum to the debris it touches in a direction perpendicular to it's travel. It doesn't seem that your explanation would allow for this.

[beyond hope]

Does the fact that we've seen planar rings with the explosion of Alderaan and both Death Stars have any bearing on this, or no? How about this: we've seen a planar wave like that on three occasions. In two cases a Death Star blew up. In the other case, Alderaan blew up. One of the going theories on the ring we see when Alderaan explodes is that the planetary shield was powered by a hypermatter reactor, and that the hypermatter is responsible for the rings in all three instances. My theory is that the seismic charge uses hypermatter to produce the ring-shaped explosion. The different colors of the rings could have a couple different explanations: perhaps it's a matter of the power of the explosion, or perhaps a reactor detonation would include contaminants of some sort which would alter the ring's coloration. Does that sound workable?

*note: everything after the first sentence is the edit. I decided to go ahead and post my theory.*

[Spanky The Dolphin]

So you're saying that Alderaan had a hypermatter reactor at its core?

Because that's what would be needed for that to fully work out.

[Old Plympto]

Let me be the first to suggest it:

Alderaan had a planet-sized seimic charge as its core.

[beyond hope]

So much for that idea then. Okay, scratch "all planar rings come from hypermatter."

[Sea Skimmer]

The explosion is being flattened out by two force fields, they've got the capability to make shaped charges out of what should be spherical explosions in more then one weapon. Proton torpedoes and concussion missiles for example.

Edit: fixed word

[Darth Garden Gnome]

I have observed that the asteroids the seismic charge destroyed were actually shaking apart and shake off noticable amounts of dust before the charge activates in its planar form. You know, when its all just a big blue sphere of energy.

Or maybe twas my eyes playing tricks on me. If I get up off my lazy ass and hook up the DVD player I'll make sure later.

[Captain Cyran]

Damnit...my DVD player is on the fritz. Something I noticed about the Seismic Charges is that it's a three charge explosion, there are a quick two flashes before the seismic charge goes up vertically, then there is a third flash just before it turns into a wave. I don't know what that might mean for the Seismic charge, maybe it's just another interesting little fact...just thought I'd say it though.

About the planar explosion, it's probably just a shaped charge using force fields to make the blast more dangerous. after all, what's more dangerous, an explosive that covers a sphere of area or a ring of the same amount of explosive that as such will also go far longer before loosing it's energy.

As for the actual content of the seismic charge...not a clue in hell.

[Crazedwraith]

Damnit...my DVD player is on the fritz. Something I noticed about the Seismic Charges is that it's a three charge explosion, there are a quick two flashes before the seismic charge goes up vertically, then there is a third flash just before it turns into a wave. I don't know what that might mean for the Seismic charge, maybe it's just another interesting little fact...just thought I'd say it though.

About the planar explosion, it's probably just a shaped charge using force fields to make the blast more dangerous. after all, what's more dangerous, an explosive that covers a sphere of area or a ring of the same amount of explosive that as such will also go far longer before loosing it's energy.

As for the actual content of the seismic charge...not a clue in hell.

Well the ring does more damage but is alot easier to dodge. If OBI-1 had been in clear space they would have been no dange al he had to to was rise a bit reatie to the charges plane and it missed

[Captain Cyran]

Well the ring does more damage but is alot easier to dodge. If OBI-1 had been in clear space they would have been no dange al he had to to was rise a bit reatie to the charges plane and it missed

That weapon is in no way an anti-fighter weapon in open space, no one in their right mind would say it could be used as anti-fighter in open space, for exactly the reason you said, plenty of time to dodge. In a belt like where they were in, any normal pilot probably wouldn't have made it.

If I had to guess, the Seismic Charges probably have more of a mining role than a military one, of course, Episode III (Or the ICS, which I have not read) could prove me wrong.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

If I had to guess, the Seismic Charges probably have more of a mining role than a military one, of course, Episode III (Or the ICS, which I have not read) could prove me wrong.

More likely it is a ground based weapon. "Seismic" would be the key word. Massive shockwaves from the charge explodng in a atmosphere could cause seismic upheaval. Not to mention if the planar wave could be angled paralell to the ground in the wake of an attacking army; ouch.

[Durandal]

I was thinkin' maybe they're discs of some supersciencey material that're spun until they reach whatever energy level is needed, then a charge in the center of the disc is detonated, and we get the nifty radial devestation effect as shown in AOTC. Whaddayah think?

I think that that explanation is about as vague and decipherable as your average Star Trek solution-of-the-day involving neutrinos and phase variances.

The "shaped charge" idea necessitates that the bomb would also produce two force fields, one upward and the other downward, each having discrete boundaries. The problem is that this force field would have to extend out infinitely in order to keep the outburst planar, and we would certainly see the effects from these force fields on the asteroids around them. Also, it does not explain the very uniform appearance of the outburst. Explosions, while they can be approximated as spheres, are not even close to perfectly spherical. We should have seen some sort of variances at the front of the "wave."

[kojikun]

Aren't seismic charges meant to be used on-planet as a battlefield weapon? I thought the planar nature was meant to maximize destructive potential outward but not upward..

[Chardok]

I don't know, I kinda like the "Spinny explosion thingy" Idea....reminds me of spinfusors from Tribes, which are arguably the coolest fucking weapons ever invented.

[Sriad]

I haven't seen the scene in question for a while either; I'm only working from what I remember and what I can pick up from Mike's description in the AOTC analysis page (in tech, about a third of the way down). If the ring moves slowly, either I'll have to write it off as artistic liscence, or cash in. The vibrating asteroids thing, I have no idea about. Also, the fact that they don't appear to be heated when they shatter is a problem.
Neh.

I think that that explanation is about as vague and decipherable as your average Star Trek solution-of-the-day involving neutrinos and phase variances.

The "shaped charge" idea necessitates that the bomb would also produce two force fields, one upward and the other downward, each having discrete boundaries. The problem is that this force field would have to extend out infinitely in order to keep the outburst planar, and we would certainly see the effects from these force fields on the asteroids around them. Also, it does not explain the very uniform appearance of the outburst. Explosions, while they can be approximated as spheres, are not even close to perfectly spherical. We should have seen some sort of variances at the front of the "wave."

...no it doesn't necessiate that there be force fields involved to keep it planar, because the only significant momentum involved would be from the initial spin-up; the effect of the final detonation the shape of the blast would be trivial compared to the rotational inertia.

Note that I wasn't trying to provide a vigorous "explanation" for the design of the seismic charges, simply a mechanism that might explain their effects, and keep your Trekizing harpings to yerself. I may be badly out of touch with cutting edge physics, but I'm fairly sure that rotational inertia is somewhat better understood than phase variances.

[Durandal]

...no it doesn't necessiate that there be force fields involved to keep it planar, because the only significant momentum involved would be from the initial spin-up; the effect of the final detonation the shape of the blast would be trivial compared to the rotational inertia.

I don't think you know what you're talking about. In order to keep the explosion flat and level, you must apply continuous force to do so, otherwise it will simply scatter once it breaches the confines of the force field.

Note that I wasn't trying to provide a vigorous "explanation" for the design of the seismic charges, simply a mechanism that might explain their effects, and keep your Trekizing harpings to yerself. I may be badly out of touch with cutting edge physics, but I'm fairly sure that rotational inertia is somewhat better understood than phase variances.

This is not cutting-edge physics; it's extremely fundamental physics. Ascribing the effect to a "supersciency material" that, for some mystical reason, generates a planar explosion when detonated is not an acceptable description for a mechanism. Mechanisms make predictions, like the one that Sea Skimmer proposed. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who sees similarities between you're "Supersciency Material" theory and DarkStar's "Mysterious Chain Reaction" theory.

[Howedar]

Okay, time for my hairbrained theory.

So, we've got this mysterious chargeup time, before the radial explosion. What if the weapon is using forcefields as a sort of radial lasing chamber, to let the explosion and shit bounce back and forth inside a bit to become effectively planar? The the forcefields would be killed, and the explosion would continue outwards in a planar fashion.

[beyond hope]

IIRC someone else proposed this before: could a planar forcefield itself be the weapon?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I doubt it. I don't see how a forcefield on it's own could be visible in space, let alone why it would explode spherically before being flattened.

As Howedar said, a forcefield is probably involved, to contain and then flatten the initial explosion after detonation.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

As Howedar said, a forcefield is probably involved, to contain and then flatten the initial explosion after detonation.

One must wonder what would happen if these force-fields were not active, allowing for a spherical explosion. Boy, Obi-Wan sure would've been screwed then!

[Sriad]

I don't have a clue.

Dude, normally I have some respect for you, but in this case you aren't even reading what I'm posting. So I'll say this as simply as I possibly can.

Explosives don't matter. They're completely tangental.
What is happening, I'm saying, is this: You have a disk. You spin the disk until centripital acceleration tears it apart. When this happens, the shrapnel doesn't fly all over, up down and backwards. It still has exactly the same momentum as before, but now instead of a disk of [material X] it's a disk of highly energetic particles expanding radially.

Okay?
Obviously this requires some tinkering to guarantee that the disk breaks all over at the same time, instead of in just one or two places. That's the only aspect of what I'm suggesting that involves pseudo science.