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I'm slightly confused. I skipped the Conquest series, and only recently picked it up. In it, Luke asks Jaina and gang to find the Errant Venture, because only the Errant Venture, as an independent ship packs enough firepower to rescue the Jedi on Yavin IV.

What gives? In shadow of the past, Errant had what? 4? 6? turbolasers working, right? Even if Errant had retrofitted the ship, in Rebel Stand, the warmaster father stated that the Errant Venture had displayed little combat ability, thus, he had ignored it. Later on, we learn that this is true, as Wedge had stripped off parts from the Lusankya to repair the Errant Venture.

PainRack wrote:I'm slightly confused. I skipped the Conquest series, and only recently picked it up. In it, Luke asks Jaina and gang to find the Errant Venture, because only the Errant Venture, as an independent ship packs enough firepower to rescue the Jedi on Yavin IV.

What gives? In shadow of the past, Errant had what? 4? 6? turbolasers working, right? Even if Errant had retrofitted the ship, in Rebel Stand, the warmaster father stated that the Errant Venture had displayed little combat ability, thus, he had ignored it. Later on, we learn that this is true, as Wedge had stripped off parts from the Lusankya to repair the Errant Venture.

It suppossedly traded off all the weapons it got to keep in Vision of the Future for an axial mounted superlaser. Wedge placed cannons from the Lusankya (though how a single ISD can hold many of the weapons on an Executor class is beyond me) on the Errant Venture. The power for these systems and internal space probably means that the superlaser had to be disabled, but such is life.

In Spectre of the Past, the Errant Venture had fallen into disrepair over time as Booster Terrik did not have enough money to maintain all of its systems over the decade or so he had it, even in its stripped-down state. However, in exchange for his services in Vision of the Future, the NRDF allowed him to keep the full weapons complement that was fitted on.

Later, in the NJO, some weapons from the Lusankya were added on to Errant Venture and then the axial superlaser was installed at some point.

Ender wrote:Wedge placed cannons from the Lusankya (though how a single ISD can hold many of the weapons on an Executor class is beyond me) on the Errant Venture.

Given the mincing pacifist nature of the New Republic it's possible the Lusankya was never refitted to full Executor-class levels. In the Black Fleet Crisis the NR dreads the confrontation with the Yevethan SSD because they had nothing to match it. That seems to me to be evidence that the New Republic never repaired any of it's SSD's to Imperial standards.

Woah. When the hell did they add an axial superlaser to the Errant Venture? I thought I'd read pretty much all the novels and I don't remember that. Was it in a comic book?

Kerneth wrote:Woah. When the hell did they add an axial superlaser to the Errant Venture? I thought I'd read pretty much all the novels and I don't remember that. Was it in a comic book?

It is heavily implied by the NJO sourcebook. It doesn't come out and say it got a SL, but the exact passage is something like "though he has removed most of the weapons, Boster isn't worried. he always has a secret weapon up his sleave. His current one was installed after dealing with the Hutts. The Ship's techs whisper 'Darksaber', but Booster just says 'What secret weapon?'"

HDS might have the real thing

Stormbringer wrote:

Ender wrote:Wedge placed cannons from the Lusankya (though how a single ISD can hold many of the weapons on an Executor class is beyond me) on the Errant Venture.

Given the mincing pacifist nature of the New Republic it's possible the Lusankya was never refitted to full Executor-class levels. In the Black Fleet Crisis the NR dreads the confrontation with the Yevethan SSD because they had nothing to match it. That seems to me to be evidence that the New Republic never repaired any of it's SSD's to Imperial standards.

They dreaded it because the Yevetha had 3 SSDs, not because their SSD was outgunned.

Ender wrote:Given the mincing pacifist nature of the New Republic it's possible the Lusankya was never refitted to full Executor-class levels. In the Black Fleet Crisis the NR dreads the confrontation with the Yevethan SSD because they had nothing to match it. That seems to me to be evidence that the New Republic never repaired any of it's SSD's to Imperial standards.

They dreaded it because the Yevetha had 3 SSDs, not because their SSD was outgunned.[/quote]

Are you sure they had three? I've only seen one consistently mentioned, the Pride of Yevetha though I could be wrong since I haven't read those books in years.

Of course the NR should have at least two SSDs of their own. That they didn't bring them up as reinforcements shows either military stupidity or an acknowledgement that they won't matter.

Stormbringer wrote:

Ender wrote:

Given the mincing pacifist nature of the New Republic it's possible the Lusankya was never refitted to full Executor-class levels. In the Black Fleet Crisis the NR dreads the confrontation with the Yevethan SSD because they had nothing to match it. That seems to me to be evidence that the New Republic never repaired any of it's SSD's to Imperial standards.

They dreaded it because the Yevetha had 3 SSDs, not because their SSD was outgunned.

Are you sure they had three? I've only seen one consistently mentioned, the Pride of Yevetha though I could be wrong since I haven't read those books in years.

the missing black fleet had 3 unaccounted for SSDs. The Yevetha had the Black Fleet. It is possible that the other two went off somewhere else, but Occam says the Yevetha had them.

Of course the NR should have at least two SSDs of their own. That they didn't bring them up as reinforcements shows either military stupidity or an acknowledgement that they won't matter.

They would have just captured the Guardian and it would be in the drydocks for repairs, or they might not have gotten it yet (depends on which happened first that year). Either way they would have been limited to 1 at the time, and it was suppossedly involved in a campaing against the Empire.

the missing black fleet had 3 unaccounted for SSDs. The Yevetha had the Black Fleet. It is possible that the other two went off somewhere else, but Occam says the Yevetha had them.

Possibly, he could be mistaken since we only encounter one and the other two ships have apparently dropped out of existance. Either way the two never participated in any action or made an appearence as far as I know.

They would have just captured the Guardian and it would be in the drydocks for repairs, or they might not have gotten it yet (depends on which happened first that year). Either way they would have been limited to 1 at the time, and it was suppossedly involved in a campaing against the Empire.

It's possible the Guardian is laid up still. The Lusankya should still be in action though. The skirmish with the Empire wasn't that significant from what we see. And given the moaning and groaning Leia did about how the had nothing to face the Pride I'd say it's a case of it being inferior to Imperial standard.

Stormbringer wrote:

the missing black fleet had 3 unaccounted for SSDs. The Yevetha had the Black Fleet. It is possible that the other two went off somewhere else, but Occam says the Yevetha had them.

Possibly, he could be mistaken since we only encounter one and the other two ships have apparently dropped out of existance. Either way the two never participated in any action or made an appearence as far as I know.

Well, no we are only given explicit confirmation of one, and only in a pratial listing of the fleet. Rest of the time they just say the fleet. Other could still be there.

Basically, we have no idea what happened, so we assume that they continued on as before, which would put them under Yevethan control.

They would have just captured the Guardian and it would be in the drydocks for repairs, or they might not have gotten it yet (depends on which happened first that year). Either way they would have been limited to 1 at the time, and it was suppossedly involved in a campaing against the Empire.

It's possible the Guardian is laid up still. The Lusankya should still be in action though. The skirmish with the Empire wasn't that significant from what we see.

It was enough to warrant both the Lusankya and the Guardian once it was fixed. That implies a pretty big push to me.

And given the moaning and groaning Leia did about how the had nothing to face the Pride I'd say it's a case of it being inferior to Imperial standard.

Actually the statement is that they have nothing on its scale, and this is shown to be false by the existance fo the Lusankya.

So after the imperial prisoners took the Blackfleet for their own, what happened to all those ships and SSD?

Also, why did Thrawn never build an SSD himself? It would've been nice for his flagship to be a little bit more protected than an ISD so he could concentrate more on tactics than his own failing shields.

Well, no we are only given explicit confirmation of one, and only in a pratial listing of the fleet. Rest of the time they just say the fleet. Other could still be there.

Basically, we have no idea what happened, so we assume that they continued on as before, which would put them under Yevethan control.

It's unlikely given that the slave defection apparently broke the back of Yevethan resistance. If they still had two ships larger or at least equal to the NR's best I doubt that would have been the case.

It's entirely possible they had to scavenge crucial parts from the other two SSDs. Twelves years wear and tear might just have worn them down.

It was enough to warrant both the Lusankya and the Guardian once it was fixed. That implies a pretty big push to me.

That's a big force but it doesn't mean that the Imperials had an equal opposing force.

Actually the statement is that they have nothing on its scale, and this is shown to be false by the existance fo the Lusankya

Or that the Lusankya isn't the equal of the Pride of Yevetha.

Trytostaydead wrote:Also, why did Thrawn never build an SSD himself? It would've been nice for his flagship to be a little bit more protected than an ISD so he could concentrate more on tactics than his own failing shields.

He never had the combination of excess shipyard capacity and time. Rather than crank out a single SSD, he preferred larger numbers of smaller, more tactically flexible vessels.

Stormbringer wrote:

Ender wrote:Wedge placed cannons from the Lusankya (though how a single ISD can hold many of the weapons on an Executor class is beyond me) on the Errant Venture.

Given the mincing pacifist nature of the New Republic it's possible the Lusankya was never refitted to full Executor-class levels. In the Black Fleet Crisis the NR dreads the confrontation with the Yevethan SSD because they had nothing to match it. That seems to me to be evidence that the New Republic never repaired any of it's SSD's to Imperial standards.

Actually, there's nothing to say every single turbolaser battery was fitted to the ISD II. Even if all the remaining batteries were, the Lusankya had been shot up and beaten up to a phase where it may have only had a token number of functional weapons. Either way, no one is saying that the full standard Executor weapons load is aboard the Errant Venture.

Furthermore, none of that is supported by NRDF behavior, particularly with a paradigm shift toward Star Destroyers and heavier ships like Mediator Battlecruisers and Viscount Star Defenders. Furthermore, in the BFC Trilogy, they think all the SSDs were stripped down into scrap. They didn't think they had anything to match the DLS Pride of Yevetha because they weren't aware of the NRS Lusankya.

Actually, there's nothing to say every single turbolaser battery was fitted to the ISD II. Even if all the remaining batteries were, the Lusankya had been shot up and beaten up to a phase where it may have only had a token number of functional weapons. Either way, no one is saying that the full standard Executor weapons load is aboard the Errant Venture.

True and I haven't followed the NJO. And with knowing how many weapons were useable and how many made it onto the Venture we can't really do more than speculate.

Furthermore, none of that is supported by NRDF behavior, particularly with a paradigm shift toward Star Destroyers and heavier ships like Mediator Battlecruisers and Viscount Star Defenders. Furthermore, in the BFC Trilogy, they think all the SSDs were stripped down into scrap. They didn't think they had anything to match the DLS Pride of Yevetha because they weren't aware of the NRS Lusankya.

Are you seriously suggesting that they forgot they had a SSD?

Stormbringer wrote:Are you seriously suggesting that they forgot they had a SSD?

No, just that it was either an unpublicized fact, or a secret.

They claim that the NRS Lusankya was scrapped. This was obviously not the case. You come up with the fix for why.

Either way, they thought they didn't have anything to match it because they who were making the comparison clearly had no knowledge of the NRS Lusankya.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Stormbringer wrote:Are you seriously suggesting that they forgot they had a SSD?

No, just that it was either an unpublicized fact, or a secret.

They claim that the NRS Lusankya was scrapped. This was obviously not the case. You come up with the fix for why.

Either way, they thought they didn't have anything to match it because they who were making the comparison clearly had no knowledge of the NRS Lusankya.

Given that it was Leia among other bemoaning the fact that the New Republic didn't have any Super Star Destroyers I rather doubt they were kept in the dark. If the entire high command didn't know of it's existance who would?

I think it's far more likely that Mon Mothma (who ordered the scrapping of captured SSDs) simply had the Lusankya repaired at a bare minimum level rather than bringing her up to Imperial standard. Given that the ship was fairly well gutted and demolished the idea that they rebuilt it in sub-standard configuration is possible.

Stormbringer wrote:I think it's far more likely that Mon Mothma (who ordered the scrapping of captured SSDs) simply had the Lusankya repaired at a bare minimum level rather than bringing her up to Imperial standard. Given that the ship was fairly well gutted and demolished the idea that they rebuilt it in sub-standard configuration is possible.

Impossible.

The ship had already outfought and destroyed HIMS Reaper commanded by Admiral Pelleaon at the Battle of Orinda before the Black Fleet crisis. The NRS Lusankya was also clearly indicated to be fully-restored as of X-Wing: Isard's Revenge, and went on to fight at Pheada (spl?) against Interim Council Chairman "Lord" Carnor Jax's Imperial Star Destroyer.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Impossible.

The ship had already outfought and destroyed HIMS Reaper commanded by Admiral Pelleaon at the Battle of Orinda before the Black Fleet crisis. The NRS Lusankya was also clearly indicated to be fully-restored as of X-Wing: Isard's Revenge, and went on to fight at Pheada (spl?) against Interim Council Chairman "Lord" Carnor Jax's Imperial Star Destroyer.

So? The Lusankya's rebuild was all while Mon Mothma was still the Head of State. Given she ordered the scrapping of other captured SSDs it's not unreasonable to conclude the refit did not bring her back to full imperial standard.

So what if she out fought Reaper? Calamari cruisers have done the same against Executor class SSDs.

All Isard's Revenge really indicates is that her damage was made good. It doesn't indicate anything about what sort of repairs and refits they made to her overall.

Stormbringer wrote:So what if she out fought Reaper? Calamari cruisers have done the same against Executor class SSDs.

1.) The MC80B put some turbolaser bleed-throughs on a half-shielded dilapidated and fatigued Iron Fist, while getting her engines shot up losing shields.

2.) The MC90 stood up to the Knight Hammer and some Victory-class ships for sometime, but scored no damage at all.

And the Lusankya is said to be scrapped in favor of building Defender-class Star Destroyers. Sorry, Stormbringer, but "not up to specs" is in no way the same thing as scrapped. You're squeezing bullshit through a pinehole of semantics, and that just doesn't fly.

1.) The MC80B put some turbolaser bleed-throughs on a half-shielded dilapidated and fatigued Iron Fist, while getting her engines shot up losing shields.

Finally, someone that agrees with me on this topic!

2.) The MC90 stood up to the Knight Hammer and some Victory-class ships for sometime, but scored no damage at all.

Just one thing. I was under the impression that they actually won Orinda (even destroying Endurance in the process.) They then lost the Reaper in another battle.

1.) The MC80B put some turbolaser bleed-throughs on a half-shielded dilapidated and fatigued Iron Fist, while getting her engines shot up losing shields.

2.) The MC90 stood up to the Knight Hammer and some Victory-class ships for sometime, but scored no damage at all.

Neither of which disproves my point that a lesser warship could have taken on the Reaper.

And the Lusankya is said to be scrapped in favor of building Defender-class Star Destroyers. Sorry, Stormbringer, but "not up to specs" is in no way the same thing as scrapped. You're squeezing bullshit through a pinehole of semantics, and that just doesn't fly.

So what if she was scrapped in favor of a newer, more effecient and effective class? It's not unreasonable for them to scrap massive resource sink like an aging SSD.

That doesn't change the fact that the Lusankya was noteably absent or ignored in the Black Fleet Crisis. Leia who knew about it certainly never considered it. That suggests that it was refitted in a non-standard manner.

Stormbringer wrote:Neither of which disproves my point that a lesser warship could have taken on the Reaper.

An inferior warship can, in the right circumstances, scare a superior ship into retreat, or survive for some time (witness the various episodes where the Japanese hammer lone Allied destroyers in 1942 using thousands of shells) against them.

To DESTROY the superior warship by itself, however, is much more difficult. Sure, there are lucky critical hits, but they are rare.

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:

Stormbringer wrote:Neither of which disproves my point that a lesser warship could have taken on the Reaper.

An inferior warship can, in the right circumstances, scare a superior ship into retreat, or survive for some time (witness the various episodes where the Japanese hammer lone Allied destroyers in 1942 using thousands of shells) against them.

To DESTROY the superior warship by itself, however, is much more difficult. Sure, there are lucky critical hits, but they are rare.

Given that she was merely beated off and not destroyed that doesn't change the point at all.