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I was wondering how reliable the assessment of stormtrooper armor being bulletproof is.

And it got me to thinking about something else: could an A-10 Thunderbolt II's GAU-8/A main gun firing PGU-14/B Depleted Uranium Incideniary shells punch through the armor of an AT-AT at any range? And if it could, what would the maximum effective range be?

Using information I found on the internet, which gave the weight of the depleted uranium core of the shell at roughly .60 pounds (which translates to roughly .27 kg mass), and the gun's muzzle velocity at 3325 ft/s (roughly 1013 m/s), I worked the muzzle kinetic energy of the round out to be 1.4x10^5 Joules. So, first off, am I messing something up? And if I'm not, is that enough kinetic energy to punch through an AT-AT's armor, at any point, when applied to an object with a .27 kg mass and a diameter of .015 meters (the entire shell is .030 meters, but I found a .015 m diameter stated for the uranium core, and that's the only part I'm using in my energy calculation.)

How would a modern-day army fare against the Imperial army, if units were committed in reasonable quantities (I'm not saying they have to be equal, just that they should be nothing silly, like the entire Imperial army against one U.S. army division, or the whole PLA against only one ISD's ground compliment)? For that matter, would something like an F-22 or a MiG-29 be any sort of threat against TIEs in atmospheric combat?

A GAU-8 would knock a stormie on his arse and probably KO him, but his armour will not be penetrated by it. A head or neck shot or possibly a torso shot (don't knwo about the KE absorbtion qualities of stormie armour) would probably kill kim through simple impact and KE transferrance.

Single round comparisons are pretty pointless. PGU-14 is hard pressed to go through 100mm of current RHA plating, one round will annoy a modern tank at best. Its only has an effect against MBT's by striking from above and in quantity, hundred fifty rounds or so per tank.

I expect it would effective against lesser walkers such as the AT-ST, but the AT-AT would be completely immune beyond lucky strikes damaging its exposed weaponry.

One round has enough KE to knock a stormtrooper down consistently. It would also have enough KE to injure him seriously, but the armor would not fail.

weemadando wrote:A GAU-8 would knock a stormie on his arse and probably KO him, but his armour will not be penetrated by it. A head or neck shot or possibly a torso shot (don't knwo about the KE absorbtion qualities of stormie armour) would probably kill kim through simple impact and KE transferrance.

Any calcs to back up those claims? I know stormy armor is tough but I can't think of any example where a stormy survived that kind of hit.

Stormbringer wrote:

weemadando wrote:A GAU-8 would knock a stormie on his arse and probably KO him, but his armour will not be penetrated by it. A head or neck shot or possibly a torso shot (don't knwo about the KE absorbtion qualities of stormie armour) would probably kill kim through simple impact and KE transferrance.

Any calcs to back up those claims? I know stormy armor is tough but I can't think of any example where a stormy survived that kind of hit.

I have to agree, the armor was designed to help against energy weapons of one sort or another and their is no data that I can think of that would show its effectiveness against a weapon of this sort. You might have a point with smaller projectile weapons but not with larger weapons. Besides which, death by kenitic shock or death by massive organ displacment, its still dead.

There's no evidence that stormtrooper armour can withstand anti-tank weapons. But the ability to survive small-arms fire is nothing to sneeze at.

To put it in perspective, think of how few casualties the Rangers would have had in Mogadishu if they were wearing stormtrooper armour. A couple of guys took direct hits from RPG's; they would have been the ONLY casualties!!!!

Using information I found on the internet, which gave the weight of the depleted uranium core of the shell at roughly .60 pounds (which translates to roughly .27 kg mass), and the gun's muzzle velocity at 3325 ft/s (roughly 1013 m/s), I worked the muzzle kinetic energy of the round out to be 1.4x10^5 Joules. So, first off, am I messing something up? And if I'm not, is that enough kinetic energy to punch through an AT-AT's armor, at any point...

I'm no expert in the arena of armor penetration, but I'd think that armor plating tough enough to render even heavy anti-vehicle blasters and light blaster artilliery useless would be more than sufficient to handle a 30mm AP slug.[/code]

Darth Wong wrote:There's no evidence that stormtrooper armour can withstand anti-tank weapons. But the ability to survive small-arms fire is nothing to sneeze at.

To put it in perspective, think of how few casualties the Rangers would have had in Mogadishu if they were wearing stormtrooper armour. A couple of guys took direct hits from RPG's; they would have been the ONLY casualties!!!!

The joints are still quite venerable; you'd be looking at a lot of fragmentation wounds just like the real battle.

AT-AT armor appears to be capable of withstanding proximity hits from thermonuclear weapons. I don't believe that a modern depleted uranium shell would realistically have much chance of penetrating it, unless it hit a particularly vulnerable area.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:To put it in perspective, think of how few casualties the Rangers would have had in Mogadishu if they were wearing stormtrooper armour. A couple of guys took direct hits from RPG's; they would have been the ONLY casualties!!!!

The joints are still quite venerable; you'd be looking at a lot of fragmentation wounds just like the real battle.

How many men were wounded by shrapnel entry through the corresponding spots on the elbow, back of the knee, or back of the neck? I find it hard to believe that such full-coverage body armour would not have DRASTICALLY reduced casualties.

Darth Wong wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:To put it in perspective, think of how few casualties the Rangers would have had in Mogadishu if they were wearing stormtrooper armour. A couple of guys took direct hits from RPG's; they would have been the ONLY casualties!!!!

The joints are still quite venerable; you'd be looking at a lot of fragmentation wounds just like the real battle.

How many men were wounded by shrapnel entry through the corresponding spots on the elbow, back of the knee, or back of the neck? I find it hard to believe that such full-coverage body armour would not have DRASTICALLY reduced casualties.

It, quite obviously would have. Note that many of the injured soldiers were hit while riding in the cars, within which their joints are almost completely protected. Also, the most serious injuries were in areas that stormtrooper armor would have covered, such as the head and chest. Only one serious injury was the result of a shot that would have struck a joint in stormtrooper armor.

Are we talking about the same Stormtroopers who die when Ewoks hit them with rocks or when glancing blaster fire from Rebel fleet boys throws them to their deaths?

I think the Stormies wear paper armour, they would surely die like ants in any type of attack or defense. The Emperor just likes seeing bodies, his or theirs.

These stories of laser artillery repeled by Stromtrooper armour is just Imperial propaghanda to reaffirm the Empire's invulnerability. Just like American planes are dropping pamphelets on Iraqi air defense facilities.

These stories of laser artillery repeled by Stromtrooper armour is just Imperial propaghanda to reaffirm the Empire's invulnerability. Just like American planes are dropping pamphelets on Iraqi air defense facilities.

Either thats brillant witt and a twisted sense of humor(That comparsion) or you think its true and you sir are an idiot

Why? The not so speedy fokes ask?

Simple, One does not drop Pamplets from 40,000 Feet up, no one drops them below 10,000 and considering the fact that all the planes have come back so far and also the fact for the past month the've been shooting at said planes... Brillant or idiot

Failed Glory wrote:Are we talking about the same Stormtroopers who die when Ewoks hit them with rocks or when glancing blaster fire from Rebel fleet boys throws them to their deaths?

I think the Stormies wear paper armour, they would surely die like ants in any type of attack or defense. The Emperor just likes seeing bodies, his or theirs.

Your assertions do not a fact make. Stormtrooper armor is ridiculously good at stopping KE weapons. That does not mean that the stormtroopers are invulnerable to such weapons, in fact the wearer is much MORE vulnerable to such weapons than the armor itself.

Certainly Stormtrooper armor is excellent against small-arms fire and such, but to claim that it would stand up to anything more than .50BMG fire is completely unsupported.

Mr. Bean,

Now, now, let's not turn this board into a discussion of why said planes are being shot at...and it was a joke. Real world vs. fiction.

Master of Ossus,

And why the hell do I need calculations or more than rhetoric to prove a point when the great big screen of SW has already proven my point? You did nothing ot assert your point.

Greedo is fried by blaster fire, Stormtrooper armor isn't even singed by a more powerful blaster-rifle. It's strong, but apparently useless in actually keeping you from getting killed (see endless numbers of stormtroopers die in any of the following: A New Hope, The Empire Stirkes Back, or Return of the Jedi).

And you can't seperate the Stormtrooper from the armour, they are one and the same thing, militarily, politically, and socially. I never saw a Stormtrooper out of armour, did you?

FYI.

The 30mm Avenger cannon on the A-10 is capable of killing any MBT with 8 rounds. There is a reason, it hits the top armor. While the top armor on any MBT is one of the weaker points, its not THAT weak. Additionally the A-10 can still kill tanks even when hitting them on the sides, and it does not take that many rounds.

The reason the Avenger fires so much ammunition is because firing at ground targets is inheriantly inaccurate and it compensates for this by allowing the pilot to spray the target. With that many rounds (and 8 being the number to kill an MBT), the target is toast.

And now to those claiming that Storm trooper armor is invicible. Proof? Oh, thats right, you don't got any. Storm trooper armor has never displayed the capability to survive such hits. Furthermore blasters that have shot Storm troopers have also been used to hit non armored targets and the damage is comparable. And don't even start with the claim that they switched power. In combat your not constantly changing weapon settings. You choose something that works and keep at that. Your not going to go for high power shots every time you take a pot shot at Stormies and then go back to low power just for the standard troops.

Addititionally the displayed armor of the AT-ST is quite pathetic. It showed less armor then that of a MBT and possibly even less then most IFVs and APCs. If a tree is capable of crushing it like it did, then 20mm fire and 30mm fire would shred the AT-ST. If storm trooper armor can survive those hits, then their guns should be calable of gunning down AT-STs, which they aren't.

Use your brains people. There is a difference between small arms fire and large calibur weaponry.

FYI Mike said a 40mm grenade might be able to kill a Stormtrooper. A 40mm grenade has less penetration capability then a .50cal cartridge.

In other news, Alyeska once again demonstrates his total lack of SW knowledge and his inability to compare like things.

Master of Ossus wrote:In other news, Alyeska once again demonstrates his total lack of SW knowledge and his inability to compare like things.

In other words you disagree with what I say. You display a complete lack of knowledge in general if you are under the belief that Stormtrooper armor can withstand a 30mm Avenger round.

I don't believe that stormtrooper armor can stand up to Avenger cannons. Your statements, however, were erroneous. Has it not occurred to you that an AT-ST is a mere scout vehicle that is not designed to be an MBT? The fact that its armor is not as strong as that of an MBT is more or less irrelevent, as it is more properly classified as a mechanized infantry unit. Further, have you no idea of how strong stormtrooper armor is? It easily withstood a ten pound metal spear thrown at 500 MPH. It's structural integrity was not even affected severely by the impact. You are being an idiot, Alyeska. A depleted uranium shell will have about half the mass of that spear, and will be travelling about twice as fast. This means that it will have substantially more momentum, but similar KE to the spear which the armor stopped easily. The conclusion is that the shells would probably be able to penetrate the armor, but it would not be easy for them. They would almost certainly have a better chance of killing the stormtroopers through the concusive force of the bullet itself, rather than penetrating the armor (though, of course, they could do both at the same time and hope to get lucky).

Master of Ossus wrote:I don't believe that stormtrooper armor can stand up to Avenger cannons. Your statements, however, were erroneous. Has it not occurred to you that an AT-ST is a mere scout vehicle that is not designed to be an MBT? The fact that its armor is not as strong as that of an MBT is more or less irrelevent, as it is more properly classified as a mechanized infantry unit. Further, have you no idea of how strong stormtrooper armor is? It easily withstood a ten pound metal spear thrown at 500 MPH. It's structural integrity was not even affected severely by the impact. You are being an idiot, Alyeska. A depleted uranium shell will have about half the mass of that spear, and will be travelling about twice as fast. This means that it will have substantially more momentum, but similar KE to the spear which the armor stopped easily. The conclusion is that the shells would probably be able to penetrate the armor, but it would not be easy for them. They would almost certainly have a better chance of killing the stormtroopers through the concusive force of the bullet itself, rather than penetrating the armor (though, of course, they could do both at the same time and hope to get lucky).

First, my comparison to the MBT is a good one, as if comparing it to an IFV. Mike made the statement that an E-11 would trash any modern APC or IFV. Yet the E-11 can not do so to an AT-ST which has displayed less armor then an APC or IFV.

And where does this evidence regarding the spike?

FYI, a DU round travels at aproximately a mile per second. That is 3600 MPH.

Again people like to compare apples and oranges. Armor developed to be effective against the common weapons of that era ie. blasters, would not necessarily be effective against other forms of weapons. I'm sure that there is some protection from KE effects but probably the idea of stopping a .50 cal or even a 20 or 30mm round did not cross any Imperial armor making mind. Besides, why would a goverment make a armor for its troops that could stop the rounds mentioned, but the trooper would still be killed by the concusive force of the round. Thats dumb, and a waste of money and resources to make a armor that doesn't keep the trooper alive weather its stops the round or not.IMHO

My apologies, the Avenger 30mm does not travel at 1 mile per second, it travels at 6.6 miles per second, or 24007 MPH.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/gau-8.htm

Alyeska wrote:My apologies, the Avenger 30mm does not travel at 1 mile per second, it travels at 6.6 miles per second, or 24007 MPH.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/gau-8.htm

Wow. Sorry about that. I thought it travelled much more slowly.