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Ok, we all know that there were 25,000 Star Destroyers created by the Empire in its reign (if you didn't know, you do now).

My question is where did they all go? Were they destroyed, captured, drifting in spcae, in the current Empire, or are they in a secret fleet somewhere in the unknown regions?

I NEED TO KNOW!!!!!
DRIVING ME CRAZY!!!!!

They were destroyed in many battles, and captured by the rebellion and probably scrapped in some cases

Darth Mall wrote:They were destroyed in many battles, and captured by the rebellion and probably scrapped in some cases

But 25,000 of them?

Given how many lives were lost in the conflict after the Emperor demise...a majority were destroyed there, with a slow whittling through the years.

Most likely many still exist just likely in the hadns the NR without consideration of recording each and every one.

Spoilers: (kinda)













In unifying force I belive 1000-5000 capital ships dies in the one battle to recapture corusant. Also I belive that a large chunk of the navy died in the explosion at byss IIRC

Techno_Union wrote:Ok, we all know that there were 25,000 Star Destroyers created by the Empire in its reign (if you didn't know, you do now).

That number is exceptionally low for what the movies indicate. If the 25000 refrs to only those for offensive actions or somethign it might work, otherwise it just doesn't. Dondonna quote says no.

My question is where did they all go? Were they destroyed, captured, drifting in spcae, in the current Empire, or are they in a secret fleet somewhere in the unknown regions?

I NEED TO KNOW!!!!!
DRIVING ME CRAZY!!!!!

In the first year after Endor while the rebles were absorbing other groups and solidifying its role as heir to the galaxy (and smacking down other rebel groups aiming for a piece of the pie) the Imperials when through a monsterous civil war. Warlords left and right, Grand Admirals campaigning against each other, fleets retreating to the deep core, conquered groups rising up, etc. The bulk of the fleet was destroyed then and it continued to loose due to intercene fighting up until the peace with the Republic. Only Palpatine had the Imperial Remnants together, and he encouraged the fighting.

I had always assumed that the majority of Star Destroyers were absorbed by local militias and defense fleets and would have been controlled by those local governments, as opposed to the New Republic.

[quote="Ender"][quote="Techno_Union"]Ok, we all know that there were 25,000 Star Destroyers created by the Empire in its reign (if you didn't know, you do now). "That number is exceptionally low for what the movies indicate. If the 25000 refrs to only those for offensive actions or somethign it might work, otherwise it just doesn't. Dondonna quote says no."

The Star Destroyers I am asking about were just the Imperial class. Victory, Victory 2, Imperial 2, Executor, Super, Eclipse, and all the other kind are not included in the 25,000 figure.

Also, Even if 5,000 were wiped out in battles, another 7,000 around Byss, and at least 6,000 gone in skirmishes with NR, and mabye at most 2,000 captured; it still leaves 5,000 of them left out there.
It just seems that they should be out there somewhere.

Techno_Union wrote:

Ender wrote:

Techno_Union wrote:Ok, we all know that there were 25,000 Star Destroyers created by the Empire in its reign (if you didn't know, you do now).

That number is exceptionally low for what the movies indicate. If the 25000 refrs to only those for offensive actions or somethign it might work, otherwise it just doesn't. Dondonna quote says no.

The Star Destroyers I am asking about were just the Imperial class. Victory, Victory 2, Imperial 2, Executor, Super, Eclipse, and all the other kind are not included in the 25,000 figure.

Actually given that the Eclipse, Super, Executor, and what not didn't exist...it still applies nicely.

It's still very small.

Also, Even if 5,000 were wiped out in battles, another 7,000 around Byss, and at least 6,000 gone in skirmishes with NR, and mabye at most 2,000 captured; it still leaves 5,000 of them left out there.
It just seems that they should be out there somewhere.

Once again...the NR could've swallowed them and not care to tally up what they did.

Between the monstrous Imperial civil War (11 Grand Admirals, and numerous moffs and Grand Moffs taking staps at the throne, etc).

If you consider even 20 people grabbing chunks of the fleet, that's only 1200 SD's each. Plus who knows how many actually grabbed up chunks of the fleet.

Also, prior to Endor, Admiral Zaarin's coup attempt took his fleet away, and Thrawn took a fleet after him, that probably cost some ships

After Endor, you also have the Nagaki/Toff/Lumiya problems that arose and they probably cost a few ships

I also have no problem believing massive defections to the Corperate Sector Authority, and maybe even the Hapes cluster pounding on a few hundred or more star Destroyers

Techno_Union wrote:

Ender wrote:

Techno_Union wrote:Ok, we all know that there were 25,000 Star Destroyers created by the Empire in its reign (if you didn't know, you do now). "That number is exceptionally low for what the movies indicate. If the 25000 refrs to only those for offensive actions or somethign it might work, otherwise it just doesn't. Dondonna quote says no."

The Star Destroyers I am asking about were just the Imperial class. Victory, Victory 2, Imperial 2, Executor, Super, Eclipse, and all the other kind are not included in the 25,000 figure.

Also, Even if 5,000 were wiped out in battles, another 7,000 around Byss, and at least 6,000 gone in skirmishes with NR, and mabye at most 2,000 captured; it still leaves 5,000 of them left out there.

It just seems that they should be out there somewhere.

They could have been scrapped to make new ships and also many could have been destroyed in battles with the Vong. IIRC they used parts of ISD's to make Nomad city, but I could be wrong.

Darth Mall wrote:They could have been scrapped to make new ships and also many could have been destroyed in battles with the Vong. IIRC they used parts of ISD's to make Nomad city, but I could be wrong.

Nope, AT-ATs.

Dammit I thought that that was only the base on esfanidia(spelt o so wrong) in the NJO. Shit.

Still, then why aren't there as many acclimators(sp) left? Because they were retired. And the empire probably still have a lot of ISD's left

Techno_Union wrote:

Ender wrote:

Techno_Union wrote:Ok, we all know that there were 25,000 Star Destroyers created by the Empire in its reign (if you didn't know, you do now).

That number is exceptionally low for what the movies indicate. If the 25000 refrs to only those for offensive actions or somethign it might work, otherwise it just doesn't. Dondonna quote says no.

The Star Destroyers I am asking about were just the Imperial class. Victory, Victory 2, Imperial 2, Executor, Super, Eclipse, and all the other kind are not included in the 25,000 figure.

I'm well aware of that, but even including those to bump up the average firepower, low end you are looking at a total fleet of a billion ships.

Also, Even if 5,000 were wiped out in battles, another 7,000 around Byss, and at least 6,000 gone in skirmishes with NR, and mabye at most 2,000 captured; it still leaves 5,000 of them left out there.
It just seems that they should be out there somewhere.

Arbitrary numbers are meaningless.

Ok, with the extremely low end number of 1 billion total ships (everything from carrack class picket ships to Eclipse class command ships) and going off the USN as per Augest 1945, the Imperial navy should have 57,680,539 destroyers of varios type (Vic 1& 2, Imp 1 & 2).

I'll repeat that: based off comparison to real world navies, they should have 57.6 million star destroyers.

I was working on this with some assistance from Shep a while back, I should put out my findings when I get back to NY.

Ender wrote:That number is exceptionally low for what the movies indicate. If the 25000 refrs to only those for offensive actions or somethign it might work, otherwise it just doesn't. Dondonna quote says no.

When you consider the role of the ISD and the fact the Empire has a shitload of other ships the 25,000 ISDs works perfectly. Also given the speed of hyperspace it allows larger command ships to control vast areas of space. Put 20-25 ISDs per sector on average along with all the other ships and thats quite a lot.

Ender wrote:Ok, with the extremely low end number of 1 billion total ships (everything from carrack class picket ships to Eclipse class command ships) and going off the USN as per Augest 1945, the Imperial navy should have 57,680,539 destroyers of varios type (Vic 1& 2, Imp 1 & 2).

I'll repeat that: based off comparison to real world navies, they should have 57.6 million star destroyers.

I was working on this with some assistance from Shep a while back, I should put out my findings when I get back to NY.

Problem, the ISD does not fit the destroyer role given its typical use in the role of commandship. It can perform destroyer duties, but with its command capabilities its more then just a destroyer.

And 1 billion Imperial ships is absurd. The biggest estimates for the NR was 30,000 ships and Thrawn had 25% of the Empire at his point. He didn't have even 1% of the fleet size you indicate.

Most ships where likely lost in the post Endor Imperial civil war, half a force fighting the other half will very rapidly destroy them both (though the fighting was more divided then that). Incredible numbers of warships easily could have blown away because of this, and of course the overall numbers don't really matter.

Alyeska wrote:

Ender wrote:Ok, with the extremely low end number of 1 billion total ships (everything from carrack class picket ships to Eclipse class command ships) and going off the USN as per Augest 1945, the Imperial navy should have 57,680,539 destroyers of varios type (Vic 1& 2, Imp 1 & 2).

I'll repeat that: based off comparison to real world navies, they should have 57.6 million star destroyers.

I was working on this with some assistance from Shep a while back, I should put out my findings when I get back to NY.

Problem, the ISD does not fit the destroyer role given its typical use in the role of commandship. It can perform destroyer duties, but with its command capabilities its more then just a destroyer.

First up, IRL destroyers can also serve as command ships. Secondly we only see Destroyers being used as command ships after the fragmenting is well on its way and fleets of larger ships have been anhilated or are being hunted down. At that point they were down to pre clone wars ships being decisive factors.

And 1 billion Imperial ships is absurd. The biggest estimates for the NR was 30,000 ships

Where.

and Thrawn had 25% of the Empire at his point. He didn't have even 1% of the fleet size you indicate.

1) Territory doesn't mean you have the fleet to go with it. The Emperor had recalled most of the fleet to the deep core by then.
2) we see thrawn has a small offensive fleet. That says nothing about the number of ships assigned to protect what territory he had
3) My numbers there are based off the canon, not the official, so it is REALLY fucking difficult to refute it using lesser sources.

Darth Mall wrote:Spoilers: (kinda)

In unifying force I belive 1000-5000 capital ships dies in the one battle to recapture corusant. Also I belive that a large chunk of the navy died in the explosion at byss IIRC

The last battle of the Yuuzhan Vong War cost the Galactic Alliance 3,000 captial ships and 11,000 starfighters (the final battle is what the Battle of Cardassia should have been).

ISD is a Cruiser in official material.

To show the right properties, I list some ships and thier classification if real life navy:

Eclipse-Class>Battleship
Executor-Class>Commandship/Battleship
Saveral unnamed ships (including Dark Empire and the Giel-Class)>Battlecruiser-Cruiser
Allegiance-Class>light cruiser
Imperator-class>heavy destroyer
Victory-class>light destroyer
Nebulon-B>Frigate
Corellian Corv.>Corvette


See, that there is a logical structure bhind the imperial navy?

Ender wrote:First up, IRL destroyers can also serve as command ships. Secondly we only see Destroyers being used as command ships after the fragmenting is well on its way and fleets of larger ships have been anhilated or are being hunted down. At that point they were down to pre clone wars ships being decisive factors.

If the stories and novels between the OT movies are to be taken into account at all it is quite clear that the ISD is the prime commandship of the Empire. It leads taskforces and is capable of annihilating most other ships with ease. Its only used in the destroyer role when escorting very heavy ships, which IRL cruisers and battleships have done this as well. Alaska class Heavy Cruisers were designed to defend carriers against enemy fighters and enemy cruisers. However they were primarily designed to lead cruiser formations on offensive opperations. Look at the primary duty being conducted by the ISD. Offensive opperations in the command role.

1) Territory doesn't mean you have the fleet to go with it. The Emperor had recalled most of the fleet to the deep core by then.
2) we see thrawn has a small offensive fleet. That says nothing about the number of ships assigned to protect what territory he had
3) My numbers there are based off the canon, not the official, so it is REALLY fucking difficult to refute it using lesser sources.

Last time I saw someone argue anything near 1 billion that person admited they were being overly optimistic and going ultra high-end. Now your arguing your position is canon and perfectly logical. Your going beyond what is normally accepted. I want to see your logic behind these figures and they also have to be worked into the EU as well.

Tribun wrote:To show the right properties, I list some ships and thier classification if real life navy:

Eclipse-Class>Battleship
Executor-Class>Commandship/Battleship
Saveral unnamed ships (including Dark Empire and the Giel-Class)>Battlecruiser-Cruiser
Allegiance-Class>light cruiser
Imperator-class>heavy destroyer
Victory-class>light destroyer
Nebulon-B>Frigate
Corellian Corv.>Corvette


See, that there is a logical structure bhind the imperial navy?

That doesn't jive with the known roles and duties we have seen those ships opperate in. Most people take the absurdly large side of the SSD level ships and try to fit all the lesser ships into the rung. This doesn't quite work. The ISD is most often seen in the cruiser role given its prominant nature but smaller numbers. Its shown as a lead offensive commandship. The only time its performed proper destroyer duties is when escorting the larger ships, and its not uncommon for both destroyers and cruisers to fill this role in heavy formations.

Alyeska wrote:If the stories and novels between the OT movies are to be taken into account at all it is quite clear that the ISD is the prime commandship of the Empire. It leads taskforces and is capable of annihilating most other ships with ease.

Why do you think that is? It's because the opponents it went up against didn't merit anything more. Why send an Executor to lead a taskforce when a destroyer could easily do the job?

When you consider the far larger classes of warship the Empire had, it is a destroyer.