Republic Landing on Geonosis

[Rogue 9]

Something that's been bothering me for a while. There were numerous Trade Federation battleships around Geonosis when Dooku was escaping after the battle. There was no evidence of a space engagement. How did the clone troopers manage to land unopposed? You'd think that enemy mainline warships would have something to say about that, wouldn't you? And I noticed a considerable lack of starfighter support at the Battle of Geonosis, support that those battleships should have been able to supply with great ease considering their fighter complements. Unless those were unconverted freighters. I don't know. Does anyone else?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

We just didn't see any of it.

[PainRack]

Something that's been bothering me for a while. There were numerous Trade Federation battleships around Geonosis when Dooku was escaping after the battle. There was no evidence of a space engagement. How did the clone troopers manage to land unopposed? You'd think that enemy mainline warships would have something to say about that, wouldn't you? And I noticed a considerable lack of starfighter support at the Battle of Geonosis, support that those battleships should have been able to supply with great ease considering their fighter complements. Unless those were unconverted freighters. I don't know. Does anyone else?

Considering I just got off this debate in SB, let me reiterate.


The novelisation states that the Republic engaged "many of" the Federation ships in space, in between the asteroid belt to those in orbit. It did not state that it engaged "all" of the Federation ships. Considering the massive ranges involved and the close ups, we can't have seen all of the action, especially considering that Dooku should have chosen a quiet spot to exit the planet.

The freighters were stated to be "troop carriers, not Battleships", thus, the reason why the Republic was rapidly gaining the upper hand in space.


The lack of starfighter support is stated to have been the result of the damage dealt to starfighter bases in WoAOTC. Furthermore, it is mentioned that the Seperatists are under attack from land and above, and that many battles were occuring all over the planet. This may be why one of the displays showed the topography of mountains, instead of the plains where we see the main engagement.

[Rogue 9]

Okay. Thanks.

[Rogue 9]

One more thing. Any idea what the Republic used to engage the warships in orbit? Dreadnoughts? I don't think the VSD had been developed yet.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

The Acclimators.

[Rogue 9]

Transports. Riiiggghhhttt. *Goes to look up Acclamator weaponry.*

[Spanky The Dolphin]

200 gigaton turbolasers.

Transports should fair well against converted freighters.

[Rogue 9]

Point.

[Murazor]

Where the clones jamming comunications or what, because the Federation freighters beat the Borg in stupidity if they let the clones land without warning the ground forces of the Separatists about the incoming enemy.

[Chris OFarrell]

Transports. Riiiggghhhttt. *Goes to look up Acclamator weaponry.*

The Acclamator is hardly a transport. Its an assault ship combining a warship, carrier and troopship into a single design. 'Transport' is something like a Bulk Freighter.

[Chris OFarrell]

Where the clones jamming comunications or what, because the Federation freighters beat the Borg in stupidity if they let the clones land without warning the ground forces of the Separatists about the incoming enemy.

There is an explicate bit in the start of the battle where the insect dude says 'Our communications are being jammed'

[Ender]

Where the clones jamming comunications or what, because the Federation freighters beat the Borg in stupidity if they let the clones land without warning the ground forces of the Separatists about the incoming enemy.

Dooku wanted a war, remember?

[nightmare]

Transports. Riiiggghhhttt. *Goes to look up Acclamator weaponry.*

The Acclamator is hardly a transport. Its an assault ship combining a warship, carrier and troopship into a single design. 'Transport' is something like a Bulk Freighter.

It's called Acclamator-class trans-galactic military transport ship. Obviously there's a difference between a "military transport" and civilian transports such as the many different types of bulk freighters.

[Illuminatus Primus]

200 gigaton turbolasers.

Transports should fair well against converted freighters.

Given that TF BBs are fleet carriers anyway, and probably shielded against relatively low-yield HTLs, there was probably little combat between Acclamator-class ships and Trade Federation Battleships.

However there is arguments about the Battleships' armament. Its scale is in line with ISD HTLs, but they're said to be lighter defense guns.

The Acclamator-class is a troopship/landing craft with a secondary mission of surface bombardment. It is not a ship-to-ship combat vessel and I would bet it performs poorly in such roles.

However, this is not to say that there are not other carrier or pure combat warship varients on the Acclamator-type hullform, which is possible and suggested by Clone Wars cartoon shorts.

[PainRack]

Arguments that the Accalamators, which look more like the US Wasp LHD assault ship, which carry enough firepower to invade a small country, can't engage Federation ships should remember one thing in the novelisation.



The Federation ships in orbit were troop carriers, not battleships.

[Stormbringer]

The Acclamator-class is a troopship/landing craft with a secondary mission of surface bombardment. It is not a ship-to-ship combat vessel and I would bet it performs poorly in such roles.

Is there anything that states those turbolasers can't be as easily employed against other ships as they are against planetary targets?

[Illuminatus Primus]

The Acclamator-class is a troopship/landing craft with a secondary mission of surface bombardment. It is not a ship-to-ship combat vessel and I would bet it performs poorly in such roles.

Is there anything that states those turbolasers can't be as easily employed against other ships as they are against planetary targets?

Of course they can be. But look at modern warships. Weapons systems, and more importantly, aiming machanisms are designed for specific missions, and I'd bet the Acclamator's guns are designed for broadsides against long-range, static targets almost exclusively.

Its shielding and manouverability and agility will not reflect a pure combat warship. A pure warship of the same mass would almost certainly outperform it, and I don't doubt that the vastly more massive BBs would be able to absorb the fire and return it with their large turrets and large fighter support.

[Stormbringer]

Of course they can be. But look at modern warships. Weapons systems, and more importantly, aiming machanisms are designed for specific missions, and I'd bet the Acclamator's guns are designed for broadsides against long-range, static targets almost exclusively.

That's possible, but the fact that your standard ISD can bombard planetary targets with ease and accuracy under cuts that.

Its shielding and manouverability and agility will not reflect a pure combat warship. A pure warship of the same mass would almost certainly outperform it, and I don't doubt that the vastly more massive BBs would be able to absorb the fire and return it with their large turrets and large fighter support.

I don't doubt that the Acclamator isn't a front line warship. But if numbers and suprise were on it's side it's possible they could take down the badly designed, badly handled Trade Federation ships.

[Illuminatus Primus]

That's possible, but the fact that your standard ISD can bombard planetary targets with ease and accuracy under cuts that.

The ISD's main guns are designed for low-orbit indescriminant bombardment: Base Delta Zero.

An Acclamator is more likely to supply precise groundfire to support landing troops due to the fact that a single one cannot hope to accomplish ISD-type BDZ.

Moreover, it is not analogous, as the ISD guns have "shoot the dirt until its melted everywhere" as a secondary mission, primarily being for blowing up ships. The Acclamator is "support ground troops with precise fire" as a primary mission for those guns. And there have been several instances in the EU when Star Destroyer groundfire was described as not particularly accurate/precise (particularly, IIRC, in leiu of TIE Bomber strikes).

I don't doubt that the Acclamator isn't a front line warship. But if numbers and suprise were on it's side it's possible they could take down the badly designed, badly handled Trade Federation ships.

The volume of the Trade Federation Battleship's main reactor suggests its shield strength should be outside the reach of an Acclamator's guns except in cases of many vessels concentrating their fire.

[Murazor]

[quote="Ender"][quote="Murazor"]Where the clones jamming comunications or what, because the Federation freighters beat the Borg in stupidity if they let the clones land without warning the ground forces of the Separatists about the incoming enemy.[/quote]Dooku wanted a war, remember?[/quote]

Yes, but the Geonosians didn't want a strong force landing without forewarning in their homeworld with enormous risks of discovering their little top secret project (something big, something round, something with a great big gun). And the same goes for both the Neimodians and the other Separatists that Dooku was fooling. I don't think that Dooku was powerful enough to control most of either the Trade Federation fleet or the Geonosians. So I think that the jamming is a more probable explanation.

And perhaps Dooku wanted a war, but both him and Palpatine wanted as many Jedi as possible very dead. And in that arena, he lost a very valuable oportunity.

[Stormbringer]

The ISD's main guns are designed for low-orbit indescriminant bombardment: Base Delta Zero.

An Acclamator is more likely to supply precise groundfire to support landing troops due to the fact that a single one cannot hope to accomplish ISD-type BDZ.

Moreover, it is not analogous, as the ISD guns have "shoot the dirt until its melted everywhere" as a secondary mission, primarily being for blowing up ships. The Acclamator is "support ground troops with precise fire" as a primary mission for those guns. And there have been several instances in the EU when Star Destroyer groundfire was described as not particularly accurate/precise (particularly, IIRC, in leiu of TIE Bomber strikes).

But we have instances where ISDs provided direct, discriminate fire on planetary targets. Particularly the incident with the Coral Vanda in Dark Force Rising, that's a good example of direct fire support from an ISD. Of course TIE with smart bombs are probably more accurate and appropriate for ground support but that's most likely because they're aircraft rather than space ships.

And again what is to say that the Acclamator is incapable of targetting and engaging a ship. That their guns, hypothetically, are more accurate than those of an ISD doesn't mean they're incapable of engaging ships.

The volume of the Trade Federation Battleship's main reactor suggests its shield strength should be outside the reach of an Acclamator's guns except in cases of many vessels concentrating their fire.

It should, but keep in mind even on a lot of those "battleships" most of it's simply empty space and so judging it simply off size and volume doesn't work so well.

[PainRack]

Actually, why can't an Accalamator guns target ships? A man-o-war, destroyer, frigate, cruiser and so forth all can provide naval support.

One can argue that it may not be "optimised" for such a mission, perhaps the gun is more stabilised for accuracy, with a scarifice in tranverse speed or its rate of fire is too slow. Maybe its turbolasers are more like SPHAT type, firing long blasts, instead of the short spurts of the ISD but there isn't a reason why it can't engage enemy ships effectively.

[Spartan]

Pain Rack

The lack of starfighter support is stated to have been the result of the damage dealt to starfighter bases in WoAOTC. Furthermore, it is mentioned that the Seperatists are under attack from land and above, and that many battles were occuring all over the planet. This may be why one of the displays showed the topography of mountains, instead of the plains where we see the main engagement.

Actually if you read the ATOC graphic novel; the clonetrooper gunships, had to fight their way through swarms of droid fighters. Now they could have come from the surface, but unless you want to say that the can't achieve unassisted trans-atmospheric flight. Their should have been hoards of fighters avalable in near Genosis orbit.

I would speculate that the Acculamators dropped out of hyperspace right on top of the TF battleships. They weren't expecting trouble and might not even have been shielded when the Republic navy opened up on them.

[PainRack]

Pain Rack

The lack of starfighter support is stated to have been the result of the damage dealt to starfighter bases in WoAOTC. Furthermore, it is mentioned that the Seperatists are under attack from land and above, and that many battles were occuring all over the planet. This may be why one of the displays showed the topography of mountains, instead of the plains where we see the main engagement.

Actually if you read the ATOC graphic novel; the clonetrooper gunships, had to fight their way through swarms of droid fighters. Now they could have come from the surface, but unless you want to say that the can't achieve unassisted trans-atmospheric flight. Their should have been hoards of fighters avalable in near Genosis orbit.

I would speculate that the Acculamators dropped out of hyperspace right on top of the TF battleships. They weren't expecting trouble and might not even have been shielded when the Republic navy opened up on them.

I see no reason why the argument advanced in WoAOTC that the Republic arrived in system, smashed their way through Genosian defences while simulatenously sending in a rescue mission and even landing assault troops cannot mash with this.

We do know that no Genosian starfighters interfered with the Republic main landing, and its almost a certain this was a result of Republic efforts to contain them.

So, unless the graphic novel stated that they were fending starfighters off incoming Accalamators to the surface, there shouldn't be any contradiction.