Are Jedi allowed to ya know....have relations?

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2003-12-18 03:05pm

In ATOC were told that Jedi are forbidden to have strong attachments, but what about the occasional one night stand, Jedi groupie, etc?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-12-18 03:55pm

Not suppossed to happen, though Ki-adi-mundi or however you spell it got a dispensation do to his species low birth rate

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2003-12-18 04:04pm

one of the jedi codes is to distance yourself emotionally, so i would presume having relationships (even one night stands) would fall under this.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-18 04:08pm

Whether you agree or not, it's always been my impression that Force Attunement is a hereditary trait and that the old Jedi Order placed a ban on relationships to keep tabs on potentially dangerous bloodlines.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-12-18 04:16pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:Whether you agree or not, it's always been my impression that Force Attunement is a hereditary trait and that the old Jedi Order placed a ban on relationships to keep tabs on potentially dangerous bloodlines.

So if its all hereditary, explain Anakin, explain all the force sensitives after the purge, explain how they keep getting new Jedi despite none of them breeding, and explain how you rationalize your positions completely ignoring all we know of biology.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-18 04:20pm

I didn't say Force attunement was caused by heredity, I have no idea what causes Force attunement, but it seems to be passed on from generation to generation. As for new Force sensitives we know for certain that it has a cause other than a genetic one. Yes, look at Anakin and look at that Khommite clone. But you can't suggest that Force sensitivity isn't being transmitted from parent to offspring.

Mlenk · Post by **Mlenk** » 2003-12-18 04:24pm

The Old Jedi Order wasn't allowed to but the Jedi under Luke were free to choose one way or the other.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-18 04:26pm

Exactly, hence the emergence and establishment of "jedi dynasties" like the Skywalkers and the Solos.

Mlenk · Post by **Mlenk** » 2003-12-18 04:46pm

In Destinys Way when Vergere learned that Luke and Mara had Ben and that he was strong in the Force she got pretty pissed and said that they'd now created a Jedi Dynasty or something like that. It's been awhile since I've read that book.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-18 04:48pm

Indeed. That's where I got the term. Old Order Jedi seem to find something fundamentally wrong and irresponsible with Jedi breeding.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2003-12-18 04:51pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:Indeed. That's where I got the term. Old Order Jedi seem to find something fundamentally wrong and irresponsible with Jedi breeding.

nope. they just don't let jedi fall in love because love is one of the things that can lead to the dark side, although love is a very tricky emotion to work with. so they prefer to avoid the messiness of it and not allow emotional attachments. (described in guide to the dark side for the SW d20 RPG)

Mlenk · Post by **Mlenk** » 2003-12-18 04:52pm

That's one rule of the Old Order that I've never really gotten. To me they're just basically denying what makes them human. Emotion can be a powerful tool if used properly.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-18 04:54pm

So then why the reaction to Ben's strength in the Force as opposed to the Skywalkers' marriage in and of itself.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2003-12-18 04:56pm

Mlenk wrote:That's one rule of the Old Order that I've never really gotten. To me they're just basically denying what makes them human. Emotion can be a powerful tool if used properly.

in the guide to the dark side if clarifies it a bit better. they're worried that someone will start leaning to the dark side due to actions taken out of love. since being in love gives one a sense of completeness, if something happens to take away that love then the fulfillment is gone, and people often fear losing that sense of fulfillment. with fear being the first step on the path to the dark side. (tried getting it as well as i could, paraphrased for the most part).

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-18 05:00pm

That is true, but the fact stands that old Order Jedi had a problem with breeding. The evidence for hereditary Force-attunement only further validates this viewpoint.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2003-12-18 05:08pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:That is true, but the fact stands that old Order Jedi had a problem with breeding. The evidence for hereditary Force-attunement only further validates this viewpoint.

they might have been opposed to creating dynasties and the like, though is there any evidence about them being against mating in general between jedi?

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-18 05:11pm

Not actual mating, but the procreation of Force-sensitives.
The all-encompasing ban is probably a precaution against both the establishment of dynasties AND precarious emotional attachments.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2003-12-18 05:21pm

Mlenk wrote:In Destinys Way when Vergere learned that Luke and Mara had Ben and that he was strong in the Force she got pretty pissed and said that they'd now created a Jedi Dynasty or something like that. It's been awhile since I've read that book.

And Vegree was an idiot. FFS, if Anikin was allowed to freely form relationships in the first place he may well have not grown so horribly obsessed about Padme. He may well have found peace with someone else. Or at the least his relationship would have been public knoweldge and the Jedi Council would not have assigned him the bodyguard role they did.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-18 05:24pm

Chris OFarrell wrote:
Mlenk wrote:In Destinys Way when Vergere learned that Luke and Mara had Ben and that he was strong in the Force she got pretty pissed and said that they'd now created a Jedi Dynasty or something like that. It's been awhile since I've read that book.
And Vegree was an idiot. FFS, if Anikin was allowed to freely form relationships in the first place he may well have not grown so horribly obsessed about Padme. He may well have found peace with someone else. Or at the least his relationship would have been public knoweldge and the Jedi Council would not have assigned him the bodyguard role they did.

What about Vergere's independent ideology do you find idiotic? The corruption of so many Jedi shows the flaws in the system itself, not in its critics.

Mlenk · Post by **Mlenk** » 2003-12-18 05:37pm

Chris OFarrell wrote:And Vegree was an idiot. FFS, if Anikin was allowed to freely form relationships in the first place he may well have not grown so horribly obsessed about Padme. He may well have found peace with someone else.

That's why I think that the Old Orders rules about being emotionally distance is a bunch of bull. How can you be at peace with yourself if you're constantly in denial about your emotions?

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-18 05:40pm

Evidence states that Vergere has no problem with Jedi intercourse (it's probably one of the talent's better perks

), only with the production of Jedi offspring. And while she is somewhat of a living fossil, she is in no way what I would call a conservative old Order Jedi.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-12-18 07:11pm

Personal opinion:
About occasional sex: I think they simply didn't feel the need to have sex.
About breeding: Even clones would have caused emotional ties, children would have caused far stronger. And emotions were forbidden, since they needed to be single minded to be in perfect harmony with the force.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-12-18 09:44pm

Ender wrote:
Lazy Raptor wrote:Whether you agree or not, it's always been my impression that Force Attunement is a hereditary trait and that the old Jedi Order placed a ban on relationships to keep tabs on potentially dangerous bloodlines.
So if its all hereditary, explain Anakin, explain all the force sensitives after the purge, explain how they keep getting new Jedi despite none of them breeding, and explain how you rationalize your positions completely ignoring all we know of biology.

Selection for Jedi is a real tough process. Like Jedgar, a lot are unfit and get some basic training for protection against Dark Side and such, and then are set out to have a normal life.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-12-18 10:41pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:Indeed. That's where I got the term. Old Order Jedi seem to find something fundamentally wrong and irresponsible with Jedi breeding.

Well, they were at least partially based on the popular myth of the Knight Templar and Knight Hospitaliar so it's probably just the usual religious objection to relationships.

Or it might just be a fundamental objection to the notion of it being passed on in "dynasties" since that would lead towards eugenics, forced breeding, and general elitism.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-18 10:53pm

I am certain it was the intention of the Old Republic's founders to keep the Jedi from becoming a sort of ruling class. Undoubtedly the Jedi Council's laws and customs were organized to reflect this, and keep the Jedi subservient to the government.