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Mace Windu, Yoda and the others on the old Jedi council take on Luke Skywalker, Kyp Durron and the Jedi on the new council.

Who wins?

TrekWarsie wrote:Mace Windu, Yoda and the others on the old Jedi council take on Luke Skywalker, Kyp Durron and the Jedi on the new council.

Who wins?

Old jedi council by means that half of the new one arn't jedi.

Depends. I remember a theory put forth that the Force was like a pool of water and the OR Jedi had too many lapping at the pool so they grew weaker. If that is actually the case, and remember Luke Skywalker took out the guy who destroyed the Order, then it's possible that the NJO Council would kick ass.

Lord Pounder wrote:Depends. I remember a theory put forth that the Force was like a pool of water and the OR Jedi had too many lapping at the pool so they grew weaker. If that is actually the case, and remember Luke Skywalker took out the guy who destroyed the Order, then it's possible that the NJO Council would kick ass.

Wrong. The New Republic's Jedi Council was also composed of Force-blind government officials and military officers.

Depends. I remember a theory put forth that the Force was like a pool of water and the OR Jedi had too many lapping at the pool so they grew weaker. If that is actually the case, and remember Luke Skywalker took out the guy who destroyed the Order, then it's possible that the NJO Council would kick ass.

That's ridiculous! There is no quantification of how much energy can be drawn from the force or how much power is avalible. The is an energy field created by all living things. Since the is not limited temporally or spacially (ie jedi are able to see: the past, present, and future; as well as great distances. There's no reason that life should be limited to a single galaxy, the Force consists of virtually all life everywhere. Now think thats a vast reserve to tap into; quadrillions of living things powering 10,000 Jedi. The Jedi could never hope to reach the limits of all that power.

Remember the force has been used to shatter stars and create storms that travel through hyper-space. When the mega-events happen, no one complains about having their power reduced.

When Yoda and Mace state that their ability to used the force is reduced. Clearly their talking about their ability to predict threats. None of the Jedi appear weaker, in fact they perform feats not even seen in the OT when their are only 4 canon force users.



Now back to the original question. The Old Jedi council takes this easily, Yoda and Mace alone would overwhelm Luke and he's the only one they got even worthy to sit on the Old Jedi Council. The rest are just sloppy seconds.

Picture Luke in place of Dooku in ATOC and their you go.

Is the Force like some kind of giant cosmic battery? That is, does using the Force actually diminish its power? If so, what effect, if any, does this have on the life forms that generate it?

Supposedly, the only real way to drain the Force would be to kill off the living beings that contribute to it.

I mean does using the Force deplete it like a battery or does it continue to flow unabated like the way water powers a hydroelectric plant? In the battery scenario I would assume that the drain is very small (insignificant) and is immediately replenished by life forms.

In TCOPL, Luke taps directly into energy given off by the life forms on Dathomir, and it's implied that there's little harm that comes from it. So I would guess that it's like your hydro-electric dam analogy.

On the other hand, draining a person's life...er, force has been listed as a Dark Side Power.

There's some evidence The New Rebellion comes to mind, that Dark Jedi and Sith get off on the destruction of life forms, and it fills them with power. But wouldn't the destruction of an entire inhabited planet or moon weaken the Force?

According to Corran Horn, yes. Take that as you will.

Lazy Raptor wrote:

Lord Pounder wrote:Depends. I remember a theory put forth that the Force was like a pool of water and the OR Jedi had too many lapping at the pool so they grew weaker. If that is actually the case, and remember Luke Skywalker took out the guy who destroyed the Order, then it's possible that the NJO Council would kick ass.

Wrong. The New Republic's Jedi Council was also composed of Force-blind government officials and military officers.

Which was well thought out on Luke's end.

By having no ties to the Republic government save for the Supreme Chancellor, the Council isolated itself from the rest of the galaxy. That isolation proved (or will prove depending on how Episode III goes) to be Palpatine's main key to dismantling the old Order (alongside corrupting a little punk named Ani).

By having ties to the Galactic Alliance from each of the major divisions, the isolation will never occur again, allowing both the 6 Jedi and the 6 government officals to keep each other in check.

JME2 wrote:

Lazy Raptor wrote:

Lord Pounder wrote:Depends. I remember a theory put forth that the Force was like a pool of water and the OR Jedi had too many lapping at the pool so they grew weaker. If that is actually the case, and remember Luke Skywalker took out the guy who destroyed the Order, then it's possible that the NJO Council would kick ass.

Wrong. The New Republic's Jedi Council was also composed of Force-blind government officials and military officers.

Which was well thought out on Luke's end.

By having no ties to the Republic government save for the Supreme Chancellor, the Council isolated itself from the rest of the galaxy. That isolation proved (or will prove depending on how Episode III goes) to be Palpatine's main key to dismantling the old Order (alongside corrupting a little punk named Ani).

By having ties to the Galactic Alliance from each of the major divisions, the isolation will never occur again, allowing both the 6 Jedi and the 6 government officals to keep each other in check.

You're kidding right? It was their ties to the republic that let Palpatine manipulate them and bring down the order. he was able to send them off to war to die. he was able to stop them from investigating and stopping the droid armies. He was able to keep them running errands where he cold then make them look bad.

Luke's decision smacks of historical ignorance.

The Jedi Order was in a terrible crisis following the fall of Coruscant. Most of the political flak the Jedi were taking had to do with their relative autonomy and isolation from the government. Since the New Republic had a sizable military, the traditional argument that the Jedi were to maintain peace and order didn't seem to justify their sovereignty. Many blamed the Jedi for interfering with and derailing New Republic peace efforts with their hawkish defiance of the Yuzzhan Vong. Bringing the Jedi more solidly under the control over the government helped to legitimize the order in the eyes of the people, and was a quick fix for the crisis at hand, whatever problems it opened them up to in the future.

Lazy Raptor wrote:The Jedi Order was in a terrible crisis following the fall of Coruscant. Most of the political flak the Jedi were taking had to do with their relative autonomy and isolation from the government. Since the New Republic had a sizable military, the traditional argument that the Jedi were to maintain peace and order didn't seem to justify their sovereignty. Many blamed the Jedi for interfering with and derailing New Republic peace efforts with their hawkish defiance of the Yuzzhan Vong. Bringing the Jedi more solidly under the control over the government helped to legitimize the order in the eyes of the people, and was a quick fix for the crisis at hand, whatever problems it opened them up to in the future.

Yes, Vergere told Luke that the Jedi's role in the election of Cal Omas and the new Jedi Council would come back to haunt him; Troy Denning's post-NJO trilogy could deal with this issue...