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Vympel wrote:These have been done to death people. The answer is always the same- it depends on the warheads the SW fighters are carrying, which vary in firepower from the megaton to gigaton range, and whether there's enough ST ships to do the job of sniping off the fighters.

Now please drop it. We've had too many.

Hmm... What about debates on whether the firepower is actually gigaton/megaton range? Or is that so firmly engraned into everybody that it will get me banned?

No, but we'll all laugh at you. Gigaton-range turbolasers are at least explicitly stated high-level official.

Unless you can go back in time and kill Curtis Saxton, you'll have no leg to stand on. And even then you'll probably be fucked.

Howedar wrote:No, but we'll all laugh at you. Gigaton-range turbolasers are at least explicitly stated high-level official.

Not many fighters mount turbolasers.

Unless you can go back in time and kill Curtis Saxton, you'll have no leg to stand on. And even then you'll probably be fucked.

I don't need to kill him, I just need to show him for the idiot fanboy that he is.

Tell me, how many people died in the AOTC movie battle on the Jedi side? How many resources were lost? An enormous amount. The Jedi and their army controlled high orbitals - why didn't they simply use a single fighter to take out the entire robot army?

Why didn't the megaton and kiloton range blasters and lasers mounted on every single vehicle produce enormous shockwaves whenever they struck something? Why didn't the missiles do that? Where did all of that energy go? I've just been dying to find out how they managed to simply foget about all that firepower!

Take this to PSW, where it can be laughed at in the proper place. In fact, it would be neat if a mod split off this entirely off-topic ramble.

Howedar wrote:Take this to PSW, where it can be laughed at in the proper place.

PSW?

In fact, it would be neat if a mod split off this entirely off-topic ramble.

It is off-topic, but I simply asked a question. Sorry about that - I will try to make assuptions in the future.

Elim Garak, shockwaves do not exist in space as we know it. Atmosphere is what allows shockwaves, and space has very little of it. And since we've yet to see these massively powerful shots in atmosphere, there is no contradiction.

Now in the Fighter vs Trek ship threads the turbo laser debate (which has since died when Ep 2 ICS came out) is meaningless because SW fighters only have single digit KT rated cannons.

Elim Garak wrote:I don't need to kill him, I just need to show him for the idiot fanboy that he is.

Only a retard like Polinger would claim that a PhD astrophysicist is an idiot.

Tell me, how many people died in the AOTC movie battle on the Jedi side? How many resources were lost? An enormous amount. The Jedi and their army controlled high orbitals - why didn't they simply use a single fighter to take out the entire robot army?

Why didn't they drop a seismic charge on the droid army? You don't use WMD in ground battles at every turn, particularly when you have a civilian city right next to the battlefield, fucktard.

Why didn't the megaton and kiloton range blasters and lasers mounted on every single vehicle produce enormous shockwaves whenever they struck something?

Again, why didn't they just drop a seismic charge on the robot army? You are being an idiot, as usual. You can't run around using extreme high-yield weapons in ground combat. By your moronic rationale, the Americans must not have nuclear weapons, otherwise they would have blasted Iraq with them.

Why didn't the missiles do that? Where did all of that energy go? I've just been dying to find out how they managed to simply foget about all that firepower!

Perhaps because they did not use their WMD due to their ROE, you idiot.

Gigaton-ranged turbolasers are obvious, unless you think that Slave-1's missiles and bombs can actually compete with Star Destroyers for firepower.

GT and TT weapons sound reasonable In a SF-universe with weapons strong
enough to destroy planets. Many SF universes have weapons with GT
firepower.

The Problem is ST weapons are just incredible weak
e.g. when the Breen attacked earth in DS9 and they infliced only minor
damge the the HQ of the Ferderation, that was just unbelievable.

Look everybody, we have another AOTC:ICS whiner on our hands here. Lets all point and laugh at him! Anyhow, Darth Wong allready beated the whiner argument to death so effectively that what is there to say?

Oh well there is the fact that unless directly contradicted, AOTC:ICS numbers stand. They are canon and there is no direct and obvious contradiction against them.

Elim Garak wrote: Tell me, how many people died in the AOTC movie battle on the Jedi side? How many resources were lost? An enormous amount. The Jedi and their army controlled high orbitals - why didn't they simply use a single fighter to take out the entire robot army?

Your an idiot. First and fore most the operation on Geonosis was a extraction mission for forces already there and engaged with the enemy. Good thinking, we'll save them by blasting them from orbit.

Second of all, by simple virtue of the Republic landing troops, they seemed to be trying (and succeeding) to secure the planet and thus the factories and any intellegence there of.

Blasting the factory to sub atomic particles is real handy for intell purposes.

Powerful weapons are grand. Intellegent weapons are shit hot. But it will never replace the need for ground troops. You don't own it, if you don't stand on it.

Elim Garak wrote:Tell me, how many people died in the AOTC movie battle on the Jedi side? How many resources were lost? An enormous amount. The Jedi and their army controlled high orbitals - why didn't they simply use a single fighter to take out the entire robot army?

Dear sir, this is rather like saying that neither Great Britain nor the United States controls atomic weaponry because they allowed Coalition soldiers to be killed in trying to capture Baghdad rather than annihilating the city with a nuclear bombardment. Strategic goals and rules of engagement are not academic concepts with no relation to actual combat, sir; they dictate the means and methods used in combat. When the goal is to extract a captured party, capture industrial manufactures, and arrest the enemy leadership, a heavy orbital bombardment is hardly a viable option; kiloton-level strafing is hardly an advisable tactic when one's own forces are within firing range of the enemy.

PUBLIUS

Elim Garak wrote:

Vympel wrote:These have been done to death people. The answer is always the same- it depends on the warheads the SW fighters are carrying, which vary in firepower from the megaton to gigaton range, and whether there's enough ST ships to do the job of sniping off the fighters.

Now please drop it. We've had too many.

Hmm... What about debates on whether the firepower is actually gigaton/megaton range? Or is that so firmly engraned into everybody that it will get me banned?

Before the ICS the typical heavy turbolaser calculation was between 2 and 50 gigatons...

I would like to see Mr. Garak's evidence showing that the given yields are incorrect. His current idea of proof doesn't work because we know bombardment would be contrary to their goal of capturing the factory, city, and leaders alive and intact. So what other evidence is there?

Ender wrote:I would like to see Mr. Garak's evidence showing that the given yields are incorrect. His current idea of proof doesn't work because we know bombardment would be contrary to their goal of capturing the factory, city, and leaders alive and intact. So what other evidence is there?

He's a troll. He has no proof, I remmber him on ASVS and he doens't seem to have changed. Just ignore him, it's far easier on your mental health.

Kyle wrote:

Ender wrote:I would like to see Mr. Garak's evidence showing that the given yields are incorrect. His current idea of proof doesn't work because we know bombardment would be contrary to their goal of capturing the factory, city, and leaders alive and intact. So what other evidence is there?

He's a troll. He has no proof, I remmber him on ASVS and he doens't seem to have changed. Just ignore him, it's far easier on your mental health.

Just an addendum asking Elim for proof is kinda like asking for ID at a night club. Half the crap is gonna be fake and the what isn't tends to introduce material which is useless, overage, and often sloppy.

Ahem! *clears throat*

[elim garak]WELL IF SW FIGHTER WEAPONS HAVE FIREPOWER IN THE RANGE OF FISSION BOMBS, WERE'S THE RADIOACTIVE FALLOUT?! I DIDN'T SEE ANY URANIUM, DID YOU SEE ANY URANIUM!?!?![elim garak]

Elim Garak wrote:
Hmm... What about debates on whether the firepower is actually gigaton/megaton range? Or is that so firmly engraned into everybody that it will get me banned?

Elim Garak wrote:

Vympel wrote:These have been done to death people. The answer is always the same- it depends on the warheads the SW fighters are carrying, which vary in firepower from the megaton to gigaton range, and whether there's enough ST ships to do the job of sniping off the fighters.

Now please drop it. We've had too many.

Hmm... What about debates on whether the firepower is actually gigaton/megaton range? Or is that so firmly engraned into everybody that it will get me banned?

Its from a canonical source, regardless of who wrote it. The ICS books are canon and that makes the details in the AOTC ICS canon. Care to provide evidence that it isn't?

Elim Garak wrote:[
I don't need to kill him, I just need to show him for the idiot fanboy that he is.

Defend that accusation dipshit.

Nevermind that it really doesn't matter in the slightest where Saxton got those numbers. He could have scaled down the DS reactor, he could have calced them from ep. 3, he could have pulled them straight out of a monkey's ass. They're still canon.

Elim Garak, I hope you never become a doctor. You'd try to perform surgery with a chainsaw.

Elim Garak wrote: I don't need to kill him, I just need to show him for the idiot fanboy that he is.

Alrighty, then. Let's see your evidence.

Don't have any? Too bad.