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As we know the endor shield was being produced from a single location on the surface of Endor by a giant dish,

I don't understand why the rebel fleet didn't get its biggest ship, bring it up to 0.9 C and then smash it right into the deflector shield, wouldn't the kenetic energy from the ship just tear the dish right off its morters?

even if say the rebels COULD get a ship up to 0.9C, and say the Empire ignored it, would it have worked?

Aside from the fact that it would be a waste of resources and lives, how the hell do you think the ship is gonna get though the shield in the first place?

Uhh, either my eyes are decieving me, or someone just suggested ramming the Endor shield with an MC-80 would knock over the surface generator... I'm no astrophysicist, but just as a wild stab in the dark I would say, um no. Hell, Home One spacing into that shield wouldn't have penetrated it.

Think of the shield as a giant lightbulb and the screwy portion to be the projection dish, which is mounted in the socket. He's saying that a strong enough impact would move the entire structure. Think what would happen if you grasped the lightbulb and wrenched it loose. It would break.

Now imagine a gnat trying to do the same. That would be the result of such a stupid attack.

What I've always wondered was why they didn't send a cruiser into low orbit and BDZ the thing to Hell. Or can an MC-80 do that? I was always under the impression that Rebel turbolaser technology was on par with the Empire's.

StarshipTitanic wrote:Think of the shield as a giant lightbulb and the screwy portion to be the projection dish, which is mounted in the socket. He's saying that a strong enough impact would move the entire structure. Think what would happen if you grasped the lightbulb and wrenched it loose. It would break.

Now imagine a gnat trying to do the same. That would be the result of such a stupid attack.

Mike wong has a very good page on momentum and shields, KE sometimes is more dangerous,

I mean...could a structure hold the weight of an impact from a 90 million ton ship going 299 million kilometers a second?

Lazy Raptor wrote:What I've always wondered was why they didn't send a cruiser into low orbit and BDZ the thing to Hell. Or can an MC-80 do that? I was always under the impression that Rebel turbolaser technology was on par with the Empire's.

Notice how the Rebels had to steal a shuttle and then ask for permission for (presumably, a portion of) the shield to be dropped to get in, which implies that trying to sneak onto the planet in some other way and then digging under the shield was not a viable tactic.

Lazy Raptor wrote:What I've always wondered was why they didn't send a cruiser into low orbit and BDZ the thing to Hell. Or can an MC-80 do that? I was always under the impression that Rebel turbolaser technology was on par with the Empire's.

I got the impression that Endor itself was also under the shield, otherwise why did Han and co have to get permission to go through the shield? Planetary shields are supposed to protect against BDZ's, yes?

The hologram aboard the Rebel cruiser suggested otherwise.

Lazy Raptor wrote:The hologram aboard the Rebel cruiser suggested otherwise.

Not necessarily, it simply focused on the shield protecting the Death Star. Is it possible there were two shields, one protecting the Death Star while another protecting Endor itself? Nevertheless, Han and co needed to sneak through the Imperial checkpoint, and they specifically said the shield will be deactivated for their insertion.

The Tyderium escapade could have been to get them onto the moon safely, not because they couldn't have bypassed the shield, but because the Imperial fleet at Endor would blown them out of the sky without breaking a sweat had they ignored the checkpoint.

Omega-13 wrote: Mike wong has a very good page on momentum and shields, KE sometimes is more dangerous,

I mean...could a structure hold the weight of an impact from a 90 million ton ship going 299 million kilometers a second?

299 million kilometers a second is FTL, dumbass.

Okay fine, let's do some calcs. Using Mike's handy dandy KE calculator, we can calculate the KE of an MC80 impacting at close to the speed of light.

If we grant that an MC80 masses around 20 billion kilos and that it was moving just shy of c, then we come up with 8.41E26 j of KE. Whether a planetary shield could hold off this much KE, I haven't the foggiest. But since we've never seen an MC80 going anywhere near that speed, I'd say this whole discussion is pointless.

The Kernel wrote:Okay fine, let's do some calcs. Using Mike's handy dandy KE calculator, we can calculate the KE of an MC80 impacting at close to the speed of light.

If we grant that an MC80 masses around 20 billion kilos and that it was moving just shy of c, then we come up with 8.41E26 j of KE. Whether a planetary shield could hold off this much KE, I haven't the foggiest. But since we've never seen an MC80 going anywhere near that speed, I'd say this whole discussion is pointless.

i think in the books, there is evidence that it cannot, didn't an SSD ram a planetary shield at simple impulse, and it put a huge hole in it?

ya i know connor, i meant meters a second, its late

Omega-13 wrote: i think in the books, there is evidence that it cannot, didn't an SSD ram a planetary shield at simple impulse, and it put a huge hole in it?

ya i know connor, i meant meters a second, its late

I don't know what incident you are talking about from the books, but consider that the Death Star Superlaser puts out at least 1E36j and the Alderaan shield generator held it back for a tenth of a second. Does it sound like a planetary shield generator is going to fall to 8.41E26j of KE? If it did, then Star Destroyers wouldn't be carrying energy weapons, they'd be armed with particle cannons and railguns.

In Destiny's Way Vong ships punch holes in a New Republic shield. They sacrificed several frigate analogs, but they were also bombing it from orbit. This was a small shield over a small outpost on a tiny moon mind you.

Omega-13 wrote:As we know the endor shield was being produced from a single location on the surface of Endor by a giant dish,

I don't understand why the rebel fleet didn't get its biggest ship, bring it up to 0.9 C and then smash it right into the deflector shield, wouldn't the kenetic energy from the ship just tear the dish right off its morters?

You seem to think that the Rebels just have ships lying around for some reason that they could sacrifice such a vessel.

even if say the rebels COULD get a ship up to 0.9C, and say the Empire ignored it, would it have worked?

No, because the Empire would not have ignored it. Given the time and effort required in accelerating a ship up to that speed, the Imperials would have *MORE* than enouhg time to detect and destroy it, even if it did pose a threat.

Moreover:

Mike on DS shielding

In that post, Mike calculated the energy of the Alderaan explosion at some 3e31 joules. Assuming a 1.2e7 m/s velocity (from the speed of the debris of Alderaan's explosion), this works out to a momentum of roughly 5e24 kg*m/s. Far more than a 90 million ton moving at even just a hair under the speed of light can generate.

Further, the momentum of the Superlaser blast for 1/10th of a second on Alderaan's planetary shield was far greater in terms of kinetic energy AND momentum.

Connor MacLeod wrote:You seem to think that the Rebels just have ships lying around for some reason that they could sacrifice such a vessel.

They do have suicide ships that were deliberately set with charges to ram ISDs at Endor. Though, these were used against Imperial warships, not against planetary shields.

I think a planetary shield generator could contain a inertial compensator to prevent being knocked around by a few incoming ships.

Lazy Raptor wrote:In Destiny's Way Vong ships punch holes in a New Republic shield. They sacrificed several frigate analogs, but they were also bombing it from orbit. This was a small shield over a small outpost on a tiny moon mind you.

You neglected to mention that they sent the entire refugee convoy against that shield as well as several Vong escorts of unknown number, and presumably, tactics like using Dovin Basals to strip away shields were also being employed.

PainRack wrote:

Lazy Raptor wrote:In Destiny's Way Vong ships punch holes in a New Republic shield. They sacrificed several frigate analogs, but they were also bombing it from orbit. This was a small shield over a small outpost on a tiny moon mind you.

You neglected to mention that they sent the entire refugee convoy against that shield as well as several Vong escorts of unknown number, and presumably, tactics like using Dovin Basals to strip away shields were also being employed.

That was in a different book, He's talking about them attacking Jiana's base in the ambush that killed Tsvang Lah, you seem to be thinking of the Attack on corusant which happened in Star by Star

It is more than likely that the shield being projected from Endor was probably just protecting the Death Star II and a portion of Endor around the shield generator. This would explain why Han needed the shield lowered in order to land close to the generator. In the hologram it showed a small portion of Endor's surface being covered by the shield. The only problem with this is, is one shield generator able to project the shield around itself and then project it into space. Or is it that there was a smaller shield generator around that protected the main genertor?

I go with the theory that the shield covered the Death Star, and only part of the moon's surface around the generator.
What would be the point in fully shielding Endor? The majority is forest, with nothing of value, all there is is the generator. Yes, they could afford to do it, but it would be far easier, and more economical, to simply shield the generator itself.
Anyone landing on the planet still has to go through the Imperial Fleet, who have total space superiority, even if they do land, the generator still has a load of troops to defend it, more than any landing party could hope to fight (assuming they don't have sheer luck involving a trap and a gold droid ).
The Rebels trying to blast it from orbit has the same problem, the Imperial Fleet wouldn't let them get close.

IIRC, in one of the comics; a ISD came out of lightspeed right on top of the Executer. The shields of the SSD shruged off the impact and the ISD was destroyed.

So there is an instance where something akin to what your proposing has happened and it doesn't work out too well. I've got to believe that the DeathStar shields are equal to if not better than the SSD.

He may have a point, though. The Death Star is essentially at the end of a very long lever arm which is fixed on the planet's surface. The lever itself is massless (i.e. the shield is the the lever, the Death Star simply holds position inside the far end) and should try to rotate at the point of fixation--the generator. The force of impact of a Mon Cal at .9 c may not be enough to tear the generator off its mounts, but what about that same Mon Cal hitting at the end of a several thousand-whatever km lever?
Imagine holding a massless pole in each hand-one is 20cm long, the other is 400cm long. Now, someone is going to throw a baseball into a massless glove on the end of each pole. Your job is to not let either pole sway in the slightest...