StarDestroyer.Net BBS

An attempt to mirror what the thread at TFN tried without being absolutly retarded in the process.

Basically, an attempt to list known ships, sources, roles, and any capabilities.

Republic class Star Destroyer - BFC, cruiser, 1250 meters long
Republic class Cruiser - Destineys way, unknown, shorter then RSD
Nebula class Star Destroyer - BFC, unknown, 1040 meters long, often fucked up by WEG
a "Kilometer lone KDY battle cruiser" - Star by Star, Battlecruiser, 1000 meters long
Viscount class Star Defender - Vector Prime, battleship, unknown, implied similar in power to Executor class
Mediator class Battle Cruiser - Vector Prime, Battlecruiser, unknown (~4000 estimated)
Ralroost class Assault Cruiser - Onslaught, Battlecruiser? Frigate?, 900 meters, > firepower then VSD
Strident class Star Defender - Hero's Trial, battleship?, unknown, made at corellian shipyards
Rebel class ISD variant - Dark Empire, Destroyer, Its an ISD with torpeods instead of tractor beams
Belarus class cruiser - BFC, frigate, variant on the Strike class cruiser IIRC
Endurance class fleet carrier - BFC, Fleet carrier, 1040 meters
Defender class cruiser - BFC, frigate?, 700 meters long
Warrior class gunship - BFC, picket ship, 190 meters
Ranger class gunship -Vector Prime, Unknown, unknown
Rejuvinator class Star Destroyer - The Unifying Force, possible Imperial ship

That's all for now

Well, if we count those predating Dark Empire (in timeline, not real life) then we get:
Correlian Gunship, CEC, 90 m, WEG
Correlian Corvette, CEC, 150 m, ESB
Nebulon-B Escort Frigate, KDY, 250 m, ESB
MC-80, Mon Cal, 1200-1500 m approx, ROJ
Home One Cruiser, Mon Cal, 4 km approx, ROJ
MC-40 Light cruiser, Mon Cal, 600 m, WEG/TIE/Balance Point
MC-80a, Mon Cal, 1200 m approx, Essential Chronology
MC-80b, Mon Cal, 1200 m, X-W Wraith Squad
MC-90, Mon Cal, 1200 m approx, Dark Empire
ISD Is and/or IIs,KDY, 1600 m, captured at Endor and after
Eclipse class command ships Gaurdian and Lusankya
And many other captured or cobbled together old hunks of junk like Belarus Medium Cruisers(600 m) and Quasar Fire escort carriers(300 m approx)

Quadlok wrote:Well, if we count those predating Dark Empire (in timeline, not real life) then we get:
Correlian Gunship, CEC, 90 m, WEG

Gunships are 120m

Eclipse class command ships Gaurdian and Lusankya

They were "super"-class meaning executer class to normal sane people.

NRS Rebel Dream may have an expanded hanger to accomodate larger spacecraft. (ISD-varient). In universe, the Republican destoyers were initially used as flagships for important government officials. Rebel Dream was Princess Leia Organa's flag; she apparently survived well into the events of the New Jedi Order.

Rebel ISD varients appear to lack the notch quadlaser. NRS Liberator and Emancipator were two examples (seen in Dark Empire) without those two heavy guns.

The following ships are defined in the context of the Republican navy.

Home One, carrier/command-ship (120 fighters), 3.2 km long. This ship was ADM Ackbar's flag at the Battle of Endor, but it is possible that he preferred the Independance (probable MC80) when he did not need the vast command facilities onboard Home One. This particular ship is officially given 29 turbolasers and 36 ion cannons, which is unusually weak for a vessel even half its size. It is possible that she actually carries 92 turbolasers.

Liberty, cruiser (36 fighters?), ~1.4-1.5 km long. This appears to be the Rebellion's heavy capital ship, the namesake of the class destroyed by the Death Star II. Acceleration performance may be inferior to the MC80 owing to greater mass; the larger surface area may imply a larger number of guns.

MC40, destroyer, ~600 m long. A smaller Mon Calamari ship that appears to be used as a fleet escort in battle. It is capable of independant operations.

MC80, light cruiser (36 fighters), 1.2 km long. The standard fleet combatant of the Rebellion. Like all other ships of the era, this type is made of converted liners.

MC80A, light cruiser (36 fighters), 1.2 km long. It is possible that it is a production-streamlined version of the MC80 for use shortly after the Battle of Endor.

MC80B Flight I, heavy cruiser (heavy, no fighters), 1.2 km long. A dedicated heavy-combatant lacking weak points for hanger bays. One example appeared to be GEN Solo's command ship in his campaign against the Warlord Zjini.

MC80B F2, heavy cruiser (heavy, 48 fighters), 1.2 km long. MC80-type with an open hanger for numerous fighters, possibly to address the lack of organic fighter cover.

MC80B F3, heavy cruiser (heavy, 96 fighters), 1.2 km long. Likely an MC80B-F2 with an enlargened internal hanger to carry twice as many fighters.

MC90, heavy flag cruiser, (heavy, 72 fighters), 1.255 km long. Powerful, limited-production warship intended for fleet flagship duties. As with all Mon Calamarian warships, it appears that there are several distinct sub-classes. ADM Ackbar flew his flag from this type of ship during the Dark Empire era to at least the Darksabre conflict.

Dreadnought, destroyer, (12-24 fighters), 600 m long. Crew-intensive Old Republic patrol cruiser, most modern designs use extensive automation and include some fighter support. GEN Bel Iblis flew his flag from one such Dreadnought for many years.

Assault Frigate, destroyer,, 700 m long. A modified Dreadnought patrol cruiser with greatly reduced crew requirements. Performance is similar though her heavy weapons have reduced range and there is no organic fighter support.

Bothan Assault Cruiser, heavy destroyer, 850 m long. A strong fleet combatant apparently intended to supplant other designs of similar size.

Nebulon-B, frigate (24 fighters), 300 m long. A fleet frigate designed for convoy escort and fighter screening. Originally designed for the Galactic Empire, this design found widespread service amongst the Rebellion and later Republic. Numerous sub-types include dedicated medical ships and command vessels.

Nebulon-B2 (aka Corona), frigate (24 fighters), 275 m long. Improved varient of the Nebulon-B.

Quasar Fire, escort carrier (36 fighters), 340 m. Modified frieighter with a large, open hanger bay.

Corellian Corvette, blockade-runner/picket, 150 m long. Fast corvette design suited to numerous duties, including fleet picket, blockade running or diplomatic transport.

Corellian Gunship, antifighter escort, 120m long. Low-endurance fleet escort for anti-fighter support

Gallofree transport, modular freighter, 90 m long. Bulk freighter with rapid bulk cargo facilities; stealth technologies were usually installed to reduce sensor cross section. Some were converted into fireships for the Battle of Endor.

Pelagia, troopship, unknown size. Carries 100'000 troops onboard of unknown type.

I would argue agaisnt the Dreadnaught and Assault frigate being labeled destroyers, I beleive them to be frigates based off their weakeness against ISDs and VSDs.

Does anyone find it amusing that the Imperials have name designations for ships, while the NR uses many more numbers? Because I always associated numerical methods for ship names/classes with the "bad" side.

MC80B Flight I, heavy cruiser (heavy, no fighters), 1.2 km long. A dedicated heavy-combatant lacking weak points for hanger bays. One example appeared to be GEN Solo's command ship in his campaign against the Warlord Zjini.

Solo's command ship the Mon Remonda carried fighters. A full 4 squadrons in fact. Rgoue, Wraith, Polearm and Nova. The first to being X-Wings, the third A-Wings and the fourth B-Wings.

The "New Class" starship line; apparently scrapped by the time of the NJO. All were invented by author Michael P. Kube-McDowell for the BFC trilogy AFAIK; my source is the Essential Chronology; lengths unknown:

Agave-class, picket ship
Warrior-class, gunship
Sacheen-class, light escort
Hajen-class, fleet tender (?)
Majestic-class, heavy cruiser
Defender-class, assualt carrier
Endurance-class, fleet carrier
Nebula-class, Star Destroyer

Far Star - modified corvette, 150 m
Immobilizer-418, interdictor, 600 m.
Hapan Battle Dragon, cruiser, 600 m.
Hapan Nova-class, light cruiser?, 400 m.

Since this is cap ships only, no MF.. I presume that we skip game-only ships like the Allegiance and the Bulwark?

Alliegence was also present in at least one comic, if you're talking about the Imperial one. I don't know why you would, but I've never heard of a Rebel/NR Alliegence.

Sorry, I was acutally thinking of the Dauntless-class.

Actually both Star by Star and the Unifying FOrce make mention of a large cruiser called the Dauntless. I've been trying to hunt down either author and find out if it iwas the ship from the game.

Ender wrote:Republic class Star Destroyer - BFC, cruiser, 1250 meters long

I still think this would be a destroyer by Imperial standards. Certainly cruiser-to-battlecruiser by the Rebel scale placing the 1.2 as cruisers.

Ender wrote:a "Kilometer lone KDY battle cruiser" - Star by Star, Battlecruiser, 1000 meters long

Republic-class Cruiser is supposed to be 1000 meters, IIRC, and its made by KDY (or a subsidiary thereof).

phongn wrote:Liberty, cruiser (36 fighters?), ~1.4-1.5 km long. This appears to be the Rebellion's heavy capital ship, the namesake of the class destroyed by the Death Star II. Acceleration performance may be inferior to the MC80 owing to greater mass; the larger surface area may imply a larger number of guns.

'

This and the "anonymous pearly wingless" cruiser are analogs. They are both the only cruisers at Endor. You didn't count this ship.

The pearly wingless cruiser may be faster and intended to flank heavier ships to draw their fire and attack weakened or damaged regions while the Liberty-class engages directly.

This should be the MC80, since they are supposed to be at Endor. However, it is possible secondary sources are merely mistaken, or true MC80s are "off-screen" at Endor.

Personally, I think the term "MC80" refers to both the Liberty-class and her wingless analog.

Here we go into theory-land....

I believe "MC80" is a hullform-type designation. Multiple refits and classes of vessel can be established from the same basic original luxury liner hullform.

Consider both the Liberty-class cruiser and the pearly wingless light or fast cruiser have slightly different roles and performances and are probably seperate classes, yet are probably refitted from mere variations on the same luxury liner hullform: MC80.

The "80" in MC80 may have chronological significance (ie., the AK-47 and AK-74 and 1947 and 1974, respectively, in our world). Keeping in mind Calamarian-specific time systems, especially considering its youthful membership in the overall galactic commmunity, may not be in-sync with standard systems.

I see this as the only fix to me. "80" cannot be specific to hullform-type, class, or role. Letters are assigned to additional destinct hullform-types designed later within the same time- or work-cycle or "season" if you will.

Consider the MC40 destroyer or frigate. The smallest liners and vessels (or, considering the protected-underside hangar bay, maybe the original remnants of the pre-Empire/Clone Wars Calamarian defense force? Just speculation...) would be refitted most quickly. Then consider the Home One-class, a carrier and command ship. Later, a greater priority is placed on running Rebel war efforts from a central vessel and deploying powerful fighter hits on Imperial targets. It isn't until last that fighting Star Destroyers more-or-less head-to-head becomes a priority. The Home One-class may belong to a "MC70" or "MC60" hullform. Other such "MC70s" or "MC60s" may have been refitted into battleship classes, rather than the carrier/command ship Home One-class.

With the MC80B and eventually, MC90, hullform becomes synonymous with class, as the refitting ends, and all specific classses are purpose built as specific hullforms. When hullforms were specifically purpose-built as classes, the hullform designation became redundant. The MC90 also has the virtue of explaining why the alien chronology system also went out of use. The MC90 was also totally standardized for the galactic community, and this creeping influence also could've discouraged and lead to the abandonment of the Calamarian-specific chronological marker used in their old hullform designations. Just speculation really.

A final note: consider before the MC90 when these hullform-designations-by-chronology were relevent, as demonstrated before--you'd have multiple, different classes corresponding to the same hullform, which also explains the EU claims of the same MC-versions of ships having many different forms. Mechanics trained on one class of MC70 would have a headache with a different refit; another class on the same hullform.

After the MC90, the hullform-by-chronology-designation is obselete with Calamarian standardization.

Thusly, modern Calamarian warships such as the Mediator-class Battlecruiser and Viscount-class Star Defender follow a more Imperial/KDY/mainstream/traditional warship scaling, as well as the same class-designation styles. Notice the full normalization and standardization by NRDF specifications.

...back from theory land....

Considering the fact that the original MC80 hullform exceeded a 1.2 km length (1.6 > length > 1.220 km), it seems difficult to grasp that the later hullform designs were only 1.2 km. Perhaps during the early New Republic, when Imperial Sector defections were more frequent and the Empire was tearing itself apart, and a speedy mass-production cruiser program was adopted, a 1.2 km MC80a hullform could be acceptable.

However, considering the shielding and firepower of some circumstances, as well as its interim position to the MC90 class/hullform of awesome resilence, I'd imagine the MC80B is no less than an ISD's mass, and probably closer to that of the Allegiance. The MC90 should be even larger to account for its extreme extended abuse without support by a brand-new and fully-equipped, even advanced Executor-class vessel, the Knight Hammer.

I admit, this is circumstancial, and no real alternative number exists.

However, there's a remote possibility that taking the MC80B or MC90 shape and volume, and taking some average reactor volume-to-ship volume ratios, one could figure/guessestimate the amount of power required by the MC80B or MC90, determine the necessary reactor volume, and use the ratio to scale up to the hypothetical ship volume. When figured against the shape and dimensions of the MC80 or MC90, a scaled-up length and width may be possible to derive.

I submit the possible ISD- or RSD-varients with in-built grav-wells serving as cruisers, command ships, and interdictors. This is possibly a new class all together. NJO on.

Also the Bulk Cruiser, the Bulwark Battlecruiser, and gravity-well frigates used by Iblis against Daala--can't remember stats or name.

Peregrine-class Strike Cruiser- XWvsTF BoP, light cruiser/interdicter, 450 metres long

Ender wrote:I would argue agaisnt the Dreadnaught and Assault frigate being labeled destroyers, I beleive them to be frigates based off their weakeness against ISDs and VSDs.

I assumed that the Republican order-of-battle had cruisers where the Empire might have destroyers; thus Rebel/Republican destroyers (DN, AF) would be frigates in the Imperial OOB (abliet largish ones).

Crazedwraith wrote:

MC80B Flight I, heavy cruiser (heavy, no fighters), 1.2 km long. A dedicated heavy-combatant lacking weak points for hanger bays. One example appeared to be GEN Solo's command ship in his campaign against the Warlord Zjini.

Solo's command ship the Mon Remonda carried fighters. A full 4 squadrons in fact. Rgoue, Wraith, Polearm and Nova. The first to being X-Wings, the third A-Wings and the fourth B-Wings.

Gah, you're right. That would mean Mon Remonda is an MC80B Flight II rather than a first-flight warship.

IP wrote:This and the "anonymous pearly wingless" cruiser are analogs. They are both the only cruisers at Endor. You didn't count this ship.

I usually took the APW cruiser to be the MC80. It's not a precise matchup, unfortunately, but I thought it worked well.

As for the MC80 as a design year, I'm iffy on that. It may be the designation for a series of warships similar in capability if different in general appearence.

Finally, regarding MC80B and MC90 performance, the Republic appears to have specialized their ships to a greater extent than the Empire. In addition, they have typically put in far fewer consumable supplies, expecting nearby fleet replenishment (and even then, six months of supplies does not seem too shabby). Finally, they tend to carry far smaller crews than their Imperial counterparts -- 37000-odd on ISD at full TO&E vs. ~5300 on an MC90.

Given those assumptions, one may consider exactly what the Rebels and Republicans did with all that extra space. IMNSHO, they probably crammed it full of power-generation equipment and redundant shield generators.

nightmare wrote:Far Star - modified corvette, 150 m
Immobilizer-418, interdictor, 600 m.
Hapan Battle Dragon, cruiser, 600 m.
Hapan Nova-class, light cruiser?, 400 m.

I'd hesitate to put Hapan designs in, as they were more strictly part of the local Hapan defense fleet as opposed to being directly part Republican fleet itself. The latter seemed not to have really considered using Hapan designs.

phongn wrote:Nebulon-B, frigate (24 fighters), 300 m long. A fleet frigate designed for convoy escort and fighter screening. Originally designed for the Galactic Empire, this design found widespread service amongst the Rebellion and later Republic. Numerous sub-types include dedicated medical ships and command vessels.

Are we sure that the Neb-B and the Neb-B2 can carry fighters? I know that the flight sims, the RPG, etc. say they can, but where do they fit? Aren't you the proponent of the "Nebulon-B CVN", Phong?

Ender wrote:I would argue agaisnt the Dreadnaught and Assault frigate being labeled destroyers, I beleive them to be frigates based off their weakeness against ISDs and VSDs.

Is there a non-game reference source for the A/FRG? Because in X-Wing Alliance, the Assault Frigate is usually the VSD's better or equal.

Robert Treder wrote:Is there a non-game reference source for the A/FRG? Because in X-Wing Alliance, the Assault Frigate is usually the VSD's better or equal.

I hesitate to use mechanics from the Totally Games sims. WEG would be a better source here and it appears to have much inferior armament (in addition to having a lack of starfighters)

Robert Treder wrote:Are we sure that the Neb-B and the Neb-B2 can carry fighters? I know that the flight sims, the RPG, etc. say they can, but where do they fit? Aren't you the proponent of the "Nebulon-B CVN", Phong?

She says he's scaled it and found there's actually enough room for those starfighters. I'll ask him about it later -- the ROTJ:SE appears to have fixed the EFX error as well, but again, I'll have to look at it.

But yes, I generally prefer the "Nebulon-B CVE" explanation, as the 300-metre N-B is probably a bit cramped for carrying 24 starfighters.

Robert Treder wrote:Is there a non-game reference source for the A/FRG? Because in X-Wing Alliance, the Assault Frigate is usually the VSD's better or equal.

Hair to the Empire. At least, that's what TCUSWE tells me.

nightmare wrote:

Robert Treder wrote:Is there a non-game reference source for the A/FRG? Because in X-Wing Alliance, the Assault Frigate is usually the VSD's better or equal.

Hair to the Empire. At least, that's what TCUSWE tells me.

Heir to the Empire does not give many details about the Assault Frigate, other than that CPT Pellaeon considered four of them a major threat to the Chimaera in a conventional engagement. GADM Thrawn's tactical ability allowed him to defeat that group.

The old WEG sourcebook continues to give the most detailed information about it.

Howedar wrote:Alliegence was also present in at least one comic, if you're talking about the Imperial one. I don't know why you would, but I've never heard of a Rebel/NR Alliegence.

Alliegence was also an ISD that served in General Solo's fleet in his Zsinj campain.

Robert Treder wrote:

Ender wrote:I would argue agaisnt the Dreadnaught and Assault frigate being labeled destroyers, I beleive them to be frigates based off their weakeness against ISDs and VSDs.

Is there a non-game reference source for the A/FRG? Because in X-Wing Alliance, the Assault Frigate is usually the VSD's better or equal.

That's silly. The A/FRG is a stripped-down and refitted Dreadnought that ends up being lighter but less crew-intensive, more manuverable, and faster.

A Dreadnought is significantly inferior to the Victory-class Star Destroyer. None of the A/FRG modifications would make its shielding, armor, and firepower great enough to reach parity with the VSD.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:That's silly. The A/FRG is a stripped-down and refitted Dreadnought that ends up being lighter but less crew-intensive, more manuverable, and faster.

I'd say virtually rebuilt considering the extent of the A/FRG's changes in comparison to the DN.

phongn wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:That's silly. The A/FRG is a stripped-down and refitted Dreadnought that ends up being lighter but less crew-intensive, more manuverable, and faster.

I'd say virtually rebuilt considering the extent of the A/FRG's changes in comparison to the DN.

With a thinner spaceframe and a lighter mass, my point still stands that is isn't possibly going to have the strength to rival a VSD.