Do filmed but cut scenes also count as canon?

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-01-27 02:55pm

Like I said, do these filmed but cut scenes count as canon?

With that I mean things like Luke meeting Biggs in Anchorhead in ANH , the thing with the wampas in TESB or Vader choking Jejerrod in ROTJ to force him to give him entrace to the throne room.

These were all filmed, but never included in the final cut.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-01-27 03:18pm

The general concensus last time was No, I think.

Shok Teenik · Post by **Shok Teenik** » 2004-01-27 03:53pm

if not canonicity, they must have at least some level of officiality, since they appear in the comic renditions of the movies.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-01-27 03:56pm

If it appears in the comic of the movie it's considered offical...but like any offical bits can be overriden by canon.

D.Turtle · Post by **D.Turtle** » 2004-01-27 04:08pm

If the scene is in the novels(or in the radio drama), wouldn't/shouldn't it count as canon?

zombie84 · Post by **zombie84** » 2004-01-27 04:18pm

They appear in the novels, comics and radio dramas, so to a certain degree, yes.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-01-27 04:31pm

I would accept deleted scenes as canon and here is how I would rank them.

Movies
Radio Dramas
Novelzations
Deleted Scenes

The reason I rank them lower then either the Radio Dramas or the Novelzations is because some of these scenes did get added back in, but not all. They were left out for a reason. However as long as they don't contradict anything above them, I call it good.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-01-27 04:32pm

Since when are the RDs above the novelisations?

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-01-27 04:49pm

Tribun wrote:Vader choking Jejerrod in ROTJ to force him to give him /

Did he choke him to death?

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-01-27 04:53pm

Crazedwraith wrote:
Tribun wrote:Vader choking Jejerrod in ROTJ to force him to give him /
Did he choke him to death?

Nope, only chonking him a bit to gain entry, not killing him:

Bertie Wooster · Post by **Bertie Wooster** » 2004-01-27 09:22pm

There was also a scene of General Madine piloting a Mon Cal cruiser, looking pretty excited and exuberant.

Bertie Wooster · Post by **Bertie Wooster** » 2004-01-27 09:29pm

Deleted scenes are definately part of the continuity. Remember, in Dark Empire sourcebook, where they talk about a Sate Pestage, the Grand Vizier. That character originated in a revised second draft of the ESB script, where Vader had to talk with Pestage via the holonet before talking to the Emperor about the assault on Hoth.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-01-28 01:15am

Bertie Wooster wrote:Deleted scenes are definately part of the continuity. Remember, in Dark Empire sourcebook, where they talk about a Sate Pestage, the Grand Vizier. That character originated in a revised second draft of the ESB script, where Vader had to talk with Pestage via the holonet before talking to the Emperor about the assault on Hoth.

Frankly, that doesn't PROVE that they're canonical, as even apocryphal texts have produced characters in the EU.

That being said, I think that the deleted scenes are at least very high-level official and are probably low-level canonical. I would agree with Alyeska's general assessment that they should rank below the scripts and novelizations and RD's, but since they're video they're frankly more clear and more objective than the other things up there for most issues, so they may be very valuable.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2004-01-28 01:24am

Master of Ossus wrote:That being said, I think that the deleted scenes are at least very high-level official and are probably low-level canonical. I would agree with Alyeska's general assessment that they should rank below the scripts and novelizations and RD's, but since they're video they're frankly more clear and more objective than the other things up there for most issues, so they may be very valuable.

I'd agree, but only in regards to deleted scenes which have been officially presented (i.e. the prequel deleted scenes), as these are the ones which have been officially selected by the powers that be.
HOPEFULLY the OT DVDs will have deleted scenes, but if they don't, I can't really see how we could count their deleted scenes as anything but lower-level official (since we really only have a vague idea of what's going on in most of them).

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-01-28 01:26am

I wouldn't expect many deleted scenes for the OT DVDs, as IIRC, LucasFilm has said that not a lot of stuff cut from the films really survives in a presentable form. Keep in mind that was still back when cut scenes ended up getting destroyed.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-01-28 01:48am

Well there was really no reason to keep it.

Equinox2003 · Post by **Equinox2003** » 2004-01-28 03:21am

Still would be cool to see them though, the ones that remain in the
proper shape.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-01-28 04:01am

Tribun wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:
Tribun wrote:Vader choking Jejerrod in ROTJ to force him to give him /
Did he choke him to death?
Nope, only chonking him a bit to gain entry, not killing him:
http://www.cinescape.com/multimedia/Sta ... 236479.jpg
http://www.cinescape.com/multimedia/Sta ... 236540.jpg

Oh please let them be on the DVD as deleted scenes, please, please, please!

zombie84 · Post by **zombie84** » 2004-01-28 08:45am

Lucasfilm had its own archives, so all of this stuff has hopefully survived.
The Behind the Magic CDROM from way back presented all the ANH deleted scenes, including all the Biggs/Ancorhead ones. Another opening scene of Luke fixing a treadmill and actually witnessing the Blockade Runner fighting the Stardestroyer was found but was deteriorated to black and white and without sound. There was also an alternate uncut version of the Cantina scene which included, among other things, Han making out with some chick.

So i am assuming all of this stuff exists somewhere in the archives.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-01-28 09:15am

zombie84 wrote:Lucasfilm had its own archives, so all of this stuff has hopefully survived.
The Behind the Magic CDROM from way back presented all the ANH deleted scenes, including all the Biggs/Ancorhead ones. Another opening scene of Luke fixing a treadmill and actually witnessing the Blockade Runner fighting the Stardestroyer was found but was deteriorated to black and white and without sound. There was also an alternate uncut version of the Cantina scene which included, among other things, Han making out with some chick.

So i am assuming all of this stuff exists somewhere in the archives.

Yup, thaey also said in a interview I have seen in TV, that George was very strict in that matter. Every bit of the film, even if trivial, was put into the archives.
Without that order from him, making the SE would have been impossible. And by the way, the cut of ANH was made by himself, so nothing was thrown away, because he did the cutting work....

Bertie Wooster · Post by **Bertie Wooster** » 2004-01-28 09:23am

Does anyone know how the Star Wars Holiday Special rates, in terms of canonicity? Perhaps deleted scenes would rate at the same level.

zombie84 · Post by **zombie84** » 2004-01-28 09:32am

Bertie Wooster wrote:Does anyone know how the Star Wars Holiday Special rates, in terms of canonicity? Perhaps deleted scenes would rate at the same level.

the holiday special rates at the "never existed" level. Lucas once said that if he could personally track down and destroy ever existing copy he would.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-01-28 10:00am

The Holiday Special also rates at the "I've never even heard of it," level. That's pretty low.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2004-01-28 11:48am

I would count them as long as they don't contradict.

Ronaldo · Post by **Ronaldo** » 2004-01-28 12:13pm

Rogue 9 wrote:The Holiday Special also rates at the "I've never even heard of it," level. That's pretty low.

Go to EBAY and run a search for it. You can probably find it for around 10 bucks or less. I have to warn you though, it isn't exactly "high" sci-fi quality.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Do filmed but cut scenes also count as canon?

Do filmed but cut scenes also count as canon?

Re: Do filmed but cut scenes also count as canon?

Re: Do filmed but cut scenes also count as canon?

Re: Do filmed but cut scenes also count as canon?