SW Naval gunnery

[pellaeons_scion]

From everything Ive read so far, from Mikes sight and Dr. Saxtons commentaries and novels Im perplexed about the way capital vessels go about fighting each other. We know that the vessels are covered in heavy weapons, and have many gunners to crew them. We've seen batteries fire indepentantly of each other, yet from what Ive gleaned so far, the only real way to break down another ships shields enough to cause actual damage to the vessel is to fire in broadsides or rapid salvos until the shields fall.

Ive also seen, albeit from a RPG source, that their is a primary weapons console on the Imperial Modular Bridge. Its been stated also that the weapons are aimed using targeting computers. Does this mean that when we see the term 'gunners' stated in the stats of vessels, that they arnt actually the ones firing the weapons or targeting them? That in effect they are more technical crew, ensuring cooling rates and power feeds are working nominally? That the actual selection, and target aquisition is from this primary console?

Also when the ships do engage, are they focussing on specific components on the target? IE is there some kind of rule that states what components to try and destroy first, or does the primary gunnery officer merely select the target, and the guns fire away continiously working off the targeting computers calculations until a firm sensor lock is achieved, and then the target is turned to scrap, with no regard for any kind of fire discpline or need for ammo conservation (considering their immense power systems)

Im ashamed to say the only book that ive read which gave an example of heavy ship combat so far was darksaber. Even the HttE series left me still confused

[nightmare]

From everything Ive read so far, from Mikes sight and Dr. Saxtons commentaries and novels Im perplexed about the way capital vessels go about fighting each other. We know that the vessels are covered in heavy weapons, and have many gunners to crew them. We've seen batteries fire indepentantly of each other, yet from what Ive gleaned so far, the only real way to break down another ships shields enough to cause actual damage to the vessel is to fire in broadsides or rapid salvos until the shields fall.

Ive also seen, albeit from a RPG source, that their is a primary weapons console on the Imperial Modular Bridge. Its been stated also that the weapons are aimed using targeting computers. Does this mean that when we see the term 'gunners' stated in the stats of vessels, that they arnt actually the ones firing the weapons or targeting them? That in effect they are more technical crew, ensuring cooling rates and power feeds are working nominally? That the actual selection, and target aquisition is from this primary console?

About gunners

Also when the ships do engage, are they focussing on specific components on the target? IE is there some kind of rule that states what components to try and destroy first, or does the primary gunnery officer merely select the target, and the guns fire away continiously working off the targeting computers calculations until a firm sensor lock is achieved, and then the target is turned to scrap, with no regard for any kind of fire discpline or need for ammo conservation (considering their immense power systems)

The Tantive IV got disabled by a shot that took down the main reactor while the Imperials were trying to capture it.

Amidala's royal ship got a hit that disabled shields, and then the droids trying to fix the shields while the TF were trying to stop them without killing.

The Executor lost bridge deflector shields when Ackbar ordered concentrated fire.

So specific parts are being targeted. Which parts depends on ship and mission objective.

[paladin]

Given the decentralized design of SW ships, I would say that the gunners are the ones who actually fire the guns. In addition to providing maintenance on the guns. The primary weapons consoles would probably be responsible for target selection.

[pellaeons_scion]

But wouldnt that be akward to co-ordinate your firepower if you have that many independantly controlled guns? And especially when you need to bring down a shield facing, doesnt that require a massive burst to overload the shielding in a single instant?

I can see the need for independant gunners for AA duty (re: the shot from the deathstar at Yavin). The gunners of the superlaser seemed more like how a battleship guncrew might work say a 16". This is all fine, but I just can see how a primary gunnery officer can control all those elements, either that or it speaks volumes for imperial discpline.

[GySgt. Hartman]

But wouldnt that be akward to co-ordinate your firepower if you have that many independantly controlled guns? And especially when you need to bring down a shield facing, doesnt that require a massive burst to overload the shielding in a single instant?

I guess that's what the targeting computers are for. Human gunners might be a way to counter the effects of massive jamming on targeting sensors. Then, it is always good to have a human supervising computers, especially in such important positions.

[pellaeons_scion]

i can understand the need of human assistance..but considering the ranges these ships would be fighting at, and the amount of jamming going on, wouldnt even computer enhanced magnification be a problem? And I cant really see a gunner firing at a bright dot somewhere in space if forced to do it manually.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

i can understand the need of human assistance..but considering the ranges these ships would be fighting at, and the amount of jamming going on, wouldnt even computer enhanced magnification be a problem? And I cant really see a gunner firing at a bright dot somewhere in space if forced to do it manually.

We never really got to see the innards, so think this. The targetting helment might be doing this:

TTT
TTT
TTT

Only one of the Ts is real - the rest are ghosts put up by enemy jamming. Which one is the correct T? The gunner might help select one based on minor differences in those Ts.

[pellaeons_scion]

mmm..interesting idea, so the human element would be used to try work out which is the correct target via sensor data, and some human guesswork...That sounds plausible, espeically if the jamming is good enough to place sensor shadows scattered around the target itself, making it almost like playing battleships to try and score a hit ie: fire at a sensor shadow, no impact or shield flare, cross it off and shoot at the next one. eventually scoring a hit. In the meantime as the sensors illuminate teh target piecing together more data and then display the best probably target location.

Wow..that would make jamming highly important..once that goes...I think maybe your soon sucking vacuum.. Thanks Kazuaki, I think that answered my question on the need for humans and computers in targeting

[PainRack]

We never really got to see the innards, so think this. The targetting helment might be doing this:

TTT
TTT
TTT

Only one of the Ts is real - the rest are ghosts put up by enemy jamming. Which one is the correct T? The gunner might help select one based on minor differences in those Ts.

Unlikely. We saw how Darth Vader targeting computer burned through the X-wing jamming in ANH. Vader only targeting input seems to be him turning the knob left, then right, then another knob left, then right....... almost as if he was searching for the adult channel.

[PainRack]

But wouldnt that be akward to co-ordinate your firepower if you have that many independantly controlled guns? And especially when you need to bring down a shield facing, doesnt that require a massive burst to overload the shielding in a single instant?

I can see the need for independant gunners for AA duty (re: the shot from the deathstar at Yavin). The gunners of the superlaser seemed more like how a battleship guncrew might work say a 16". This is all fine, but I just can see how a primary gunnery officer can control all those elements, either that or it speaks volumes for imperial discpline.

We do that now, you know? While none of our navy ships has as many weapons as an ISD, its more than possible for independent gunners to coordinate broadsides.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

We never really got to see the innards, so think this. The targetting helment might be doing this:

TTT
TTT
TTT

Only one of the Ts is real - the rest are ghosts put up by enemy jamming. Which one is the correct T? The gunner might help select one based on minor differences in those Ts.

Unlikely. We saw how Darth Vader targeting computer burned through the X-wing jamming in ANH. Vader only targeting input seems to be him turning the knob left, then right, then another knob left, then right....... almost as if he was searching for the adult channel.

1) Considering he has to fly, the computer is forced to at least partially automate the function.
2) Can't that turn left, turn right thing be Vader doing something like what I said above, helping the computer burn through jamming? IIRC, the fighter in the targetting system danced around a lot - perhaps the computer and Vader is trying to process out all the fakes?

[Darth Wong]

The more obvious reason for dual control is redundancy and combat survivability. The bridge coordinates the firing activity of all the guns, but if the bridge is hit or the control lines between the bridge and the guns are damaged, local guns still function. Local gunners can still fire at targets, although their central co-ordination is now gone.

[PainRack]

The more obvious reason for dual control is redundancy and combat survivability. The bridge coordinates the firing activity of all the guns, but if the bridge is hit or the control lines between the bridge and the guns are damaged, local guns still function. Local gunners can still fire at targets, although their central co-ordination is now gone.

The Death Star had targeting coordinators........ this may not hold true for the ISD, but if my guess is correct, this would be how the system goes.


The bridge will have a tactical screen, which indicates the threats in the area. Each threat, or more likely, a specific type of threat and arc will be allocated to a cluster of guns, coordinated by a targeting coordinator. The coordinator ( the equivalent is held by a senior specialist in the navy) will then be combine the fire of his turret gunners and score a mission kill.

With any sensible form of back up and data transmission, this should mean that its possible that even taking out the bridge will not reduce the coordination for a cluster of guns, it will just fuck up the decision process before firing.

[Sea Skimmer]

Unlikely. We saw how Darth Vader targeting computer burned through the X-wing jamming in ANH. Vader only targeting input seems to be him turning the knob left, then right, then another knob left, then right....... almost as if he was searching for the adult channel.

Most likely he was telling the system to switch to a different frequency, many radar systems today have manual knobs for that, and more advanced models automatically do so, but Vader might prefer to do it himself, perhaps using the force or guidance or some thing like that.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

The Death Star had targeting coordinators........ this may not hold true for the ISD, but if my guess is correct, this would be how the system goes.

They did mention an additional special little room on the SSD where fire could be coordinated in Tyrant's Test. Perhaps it is standard?