Starting down the path of NJO.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2004-02-15 02:38am

Well, limited internet access due to punishment has led me to increased interest in reading novels, so I've decided to finally pick up the NJO series and read it. About halfway through Vector Prime, and it's okay except that the biotech of the YV seems to just be biological ways of doing tech things instead of maybe some interesting. And I was equally disgusted as amused by Chewie and Han dopey comic reilef.

Mlenk · Post by **Mlenk** » 2004-02-15 02:40am

Good luck. You're gonna need it!

The NJO is a largely hit and miss series, IMO mostly bad but some good as well.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-02-15 03:59am

The NJO is largely miss in my opinion. Certainly not a one that was anything better than average. For all everyone here raves about Star by Star I found it a very ho-hum novel.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-02-15 04:01am

Stormbringer wrote:The NJO is largely miss in my opinion. Certainly not a one that was anything better than average. For all everyone here raves about Star by Star I found it a very ho-hum novel.

In comparison to the rest of the EU and the NJO?

Tatooine Ghost was another good one.

People rave over Zahn, but he was given a lot more to work with than Denning. Let's see about his post-NJO trilogy.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-02-15 04:10am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:The NJO is largely miss in my opinion. Certainly not a one that was anything better than average. For all everyone here raves about Star by Star I found it a very ho-hum novel.
In comparison to the rest of the EU and the NJO?

In both actually. There was nothing at all to it that set it apart from run of the mill. The characterization was unremarkble, the plot pretty much cliched, and the action entertaining but hardly first rate. And of course the utterly pointless death of Anakin, one of the few character I didn't want to be to death with a toy lightsabre. It just wasn't that good.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Tatooine Ghost was another good one.

Perhaps, but nothing he's done suggests I'd enjoy it any more than Star by Star and so I've got much better books to drop the cash on.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:People rave over Zahn, but he was given a lot more to work with than Denning. Let's see about his post-NJO trilogy.

Perhaps, but even the Timothy Zahn did a much better job with characterization and making the plot snap. Even of the Hand of Thrawn duology he managed to put together a great story and have some pretty strong characaters. That just didn't happen, IMO, in Troy Denning's books.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2004-02-15 09:54am

While enjoyable in parts i personaly found the NJO very frustrating, and ultimately unsatisfying.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-02-15 05:25pm

I've read every book up through Reunion. I never bought the Final Prophecy, and The Unifying Force has been sitting in my room unread for three months.

Quite frankly, I started getting impatient with the series during the Force Heretic trilogy. It just wasn't fucking going anywhere, and it was uninteresting.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-02-15 05:32pm

Perhaps, but even the Timothy Zahn did a much better job with characterization and making the plot snap. Even of the Hand of Thrawn duology he managed to put together a great story and have some pretty strong characaters. That just didn't happen, IMO, in Troy Denning's books.

I disagree. The raid on Myrkr was very well-written, and the young Jedi Knights that made up the strike team complemented each other very well. There was tension, camaraderie, and even mistrust at a few points. It's the high point of the series, in my opinion.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-02-15 05:36pm

Stormbringer wrote:Perhaps, but even the Timothy Zahn did a much better job with characterization and making the plot snap. Even of the Hand of Thrawn duology he managed to put together a great story and have some pretty strong characaters. That just didn't happen, IMO, in Troy Denning's books.

Nothing important happened in the HoT.

All the characters were static and most of the Luke characterization were shots at other EU authors.

And the Anakin death came from on-high, I'm afraid.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-02-15 05:37pm

Joe wrote:I disagree. The raid on Myrkr was very well-written, and the young Jedi Knights that made up the strike team complemented each other very well. There was tension, camaraderie, and even mistrust at a few points. It's the high point of the series, in my opinion.

I really have to disagree with you. There were certainly all of that but then again I didn't find it particularly well done. It seemed to come mostly out of their assigned role, kind of an interst Character B into Tension Slot 1 and tighten down Character A.

Mlenk · Post by **Mlenk** » 2004-02-15 06:03pm

The high point of the NJO for me wasn't Denning's SbS but Allston's NJO books, particularly Rebel Dream and then SbS and Destiny's Way after Allston's books. Stackpole's Dark Tide 1: Onslaught was all right as was EOV II: Rebirth. IMO, Onslaught was a good follow up to the shittiness that was Vector Prime. The rest of the series was just complete shit for me which finally ended with TUF which was IMO an anti-climactic and lackluster ending.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2004-02-15 06:56pm

Can we hide the spoilers here? This thread was started by someone yet to read the books.

Without getting further into detail than i have to what annoyed me most about the NJO books was the lack of detail in the fleet battles. Alistons books where the only books that even gave a little detail on the battles. Maybe thats because the NJO battles concentrated on individual characters, still even the names of a few of the ships and their captains, maybe a chapter set in a fleet strategy meeting between battle group commanders would have been nice.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-02-15 07:03pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Nothing important happened in the HoT.

Peace with the Empire ring a bell?

Illuminatus Primus wrote:All the characters were static and most of the Luke characterization were shots at other EU authors.

I don't know, there was some change in both Luke and Mara. But static characterization is the bedrock of the EU unfortunately. But that doesn't mean they can't be entertaining characters and fleshed out people.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:And the Anakin death came from on-high, I'm afraid.

I know, but it was still a very lackluster way to kill him. Not an impressive last stand or even a spectacular rearguard really. Just offed.

Mlenk · Post by **Mlenk** » 2004-02-15 08:18pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote: And the Anakin death came from on-high, I'm afraid.

Yeah, according to the interviews found on the CD accompanying TUF, Lucas himself told them to kill Anakin off for fear of fans confusing or muddling together Anakin Solo and Anakin Skywalker, which then led to Jacen becoming the main "hero" of the NJO.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-02-15 08:23pm

Mlenk wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote: And the Anakin death came from on-high, I'm afraid.
Yeah, according to the interviews found on the CD accompanying TUF, Lucas himself told them to kill Anakin off for fear of fans confusing or muddling together Anakin Solo and Anakin Skywalker, which then led to Jacen becoming the main "hero" of the NJO.

Which was one of the stupidest things ever given that he was being set up as the hero from the start.

Mlenk · Post by **Mlenk** » 2004-02-15 10:11pm

Stormbringer wrote: Which was one of the stupidest things ever given that he was being set up as the hero from the start.

No arguments there. With Anakin gone there was no counter-balance to Jacen's constant bitching and moaning which made the rest of the NJO series after SbS that much more shitty.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-02-15 10:24pm

Mlenk wrote:
Stormbringer wrote: Which was one of the stupidest things ever given that he was being set up as the hero from the start.
No arguments there. With Anakin gone there was no counter-balance to Jacen's constant bitching and moaning which made the rest of the NJO series after SbS that much more shitty.

Never read past Star By Star. It killed any interest at all in finishing the series with that and the generally mediocre writing.

Mlenk · Post by **Mlenk** » 2004-02-15 10:58pm

Stormbringer wrote: Never read past Star By Star. It killed any interest at all in finishing the series with that and the generally mediocre writing.

You're smarter than I was. Out of the remaining 10 books, there were basically only two that were even worth a damn and one that just ranked barely above being shitty. And I had to find all that out the hard way.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2004-02-15 11:54pm

anarchistbunny wrote:Well, limited internet access due to punishment has led me to increased interest in reading novels, so I've decided to finally pick up the NJO series and read it. About halfway through Vector Prime, and it's okay except that the biotech of the YV seems to just be biological ways of doing tech things instead of maybe some interesting. And I was equally disgusted as amused by Chewie and Han dopey comic reilef.

In honesty, I am get blasted for this, but why don't you try another writer like David Drake & Hammer's Slammer or David Weber & Honor Harrington. No matter what others might say, at least they don't contridict themselves.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-02-16 12:03am

Kitsune wrote:In honesty, I am get blasted for this, but why don't you try another writer like David Drake & Hammer's Slammer or David Weber & Honor Harrington. No matter what others might say, at least they don't contridict themselves.

And of course there's also David Drake's version of Aubery/Martin with the Cinabar Navy novels (buy the third on, its got a nifty CD). And don't forget Weber's Starfire novels or the Empire from the Ashes trilogy.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2004-02-16 12:11am

Stormbringer wrote: And of course there's also David Drake's version of Aubery/Martin with the Cinabar Navy novels (buy the third on, its got a nifty CD). And don't forget Weber's Starfire novels or the Empire from the Ashes trilogy.

The Honorverse CDs was great (Have not gotten the latest "Leary" book yet / Just read "Paying the Piper) but cannot read them at work during down time so I prefer the books.

Seriously, I read the Thrahn and some of the X-Wing novels but just did not care for the novels.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2004-02-21 12:11am

Finished Vector Prime, I know all the reasoning and Lucas's call on Chewie dying and all this shit, I still don't like it. I don't like that the Yuuzhan Vong's staff weapons can withstand lightsaber's seemingly unlimitedly. I could see them being resistant to them, taking force and a few seconds to burn all the way through, but a snake stopping a high powered energy beam constantly? Bleck.

Do the Vong ever have a large ground battle with any ground forces in the series? Poison spitting staves and thud bugs and jellies and crab armor are nice and all, but I don't see them working out in a large scale battle.

Oh well, probably start Onslaught Sunday or Monday.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2004-02-21 01:01am

anarchistbunny wrote:Finished Vector Prime, I know all the reasoning and Lucas's call on Chewie dying and all this shit, I still don't like it. I don't like that the Yuuzhan Vong's staff weapons can withstand lightsaber's seemingly unlimitedly. I could see them being resistant to them, taking force and a few seconds to burn all the way through, but a snake stopping a high powered energy beam constantly? Bleck.

Do the Vong ever have a large ground battle with any ground forces in the series? Poison spitting staves and thud bugs and jellies and crab armor are nice and all, but I don't see them working out in a large scale battle.

Oh well, probably start Onslaught Sunday or Monday.

There are atleast two major ground battles. ne is earlier in the NJO involving Jaina. The Vong have beetle like tanks, but I never read that novel. The other is Rebel Dream and Rebel Stand at Borelias.

Black Admiral · Post by **Black Admiral** » 2004-02-21 05:49am

anarchistbunny wrote:Finished Vector Prime, I know all the reasoning and Lucas's call on Chewie dying and all this shit, I still don't like it. I don't like that the Yuuzhan Vong's staff weapons can withstand lightsaber's seemingly unlimitedly. I could see them being resistant to them, taking force and a few seconds to burn all the way through, but a snake stopping a high powered energy beam constantly? Bleck.

Well, Onslaught semi-fixes this.

Do the Vong ever have a large ground battle with any ground forces in the series? Poison spitting staves and thud bugs and jellies and crab armor are nice and all, but I don't see them working out in a large scale battle.

Yep. Dark Tide 1, and Rebel Dream. I don't recall there being one in any of the other books, except TUF, which I haven't read yet.

Oh well, probably start Onslaught Sunday or Monday.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2004-02-21 10:10pm

Black Admiral wrote:Yep. Dark Tide 1, and Rebel Dream. I don't recall there being one in any of the other books, except TUF, which I haven't read yet.

Well, TUF had more of a general riot than an actually ground battle.

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