Imperial regular army?

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2004-02-20 08:14am

If the stormtroops are the elite, the blacksuits are security forces in ships (DS, SSD,...), I was wondering if the Empire has regular troops (with same uniform as the AT-ST drivers?). Or do storm-, snow-, rad-,... -troopers always do all the fighting?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-02-20 08:42am

Actually they do.

The Stormies have to be viewed as the elite as well closer to the analogy of the special forces. The EU does show that there are unit of regular and their design is similar to many of the naval regulars we see.

GySgt. Hartman · Post by **GySgt. Hartman** » 2004-02-20 09:37am

Stormies can take just about anything, but they aren't equipped to hold it for a prolonged period. That's where the regular Army kicks in.
If you are going to fight a battle, not just an do an assault mission, you would also deploy the regular Army, because they have tanks and artillery and repulsorlifts.

Oberleutnant · Post by **Oberleutnant** » 2004-02-20 10:14am

GySgt. Hartman wrote:- the regular Army, because they have tanks and artillery and repulsorlifts.

Walkers, too.

The Star Wars roleplaying sourcebooks have loads of information about the Imperial Army and its equipment.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-02-20 10:17am

GySgt. Hartman wrote:Stormies can take just about anything, but they aren't equipped to hold it for a prolonged period. That's where the regular Army kicks in.
If you are going to fight a battle, not just an do an assault mission, you would also deploy the regular Army, because they have tanks and artillery and repulsorlifts.

Then why were the Stormtroopers guarding the base at Endor? That wasn't an assault. The Stormtroopers were on guard duty.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2004-02-20 10:42am

Gil Hamilton wrote:
GySgt. Hartman wrote:Stormies can take just about anything, but they aren't equipped to hold it for a prolonged period. That's where the regular Army kicks in.
If you are going to fight a battle, not just an do an assault mission, you would also deploy the regular Army, because they have tanks and artillery and repulsorlifts.
Then why were the Stormtroopers guarding the base at Endor? That wasn't an assault. The Stormtroopers were on guard duty.

because of its importance i guess? You want to have the best to guard it.

Stormies are 100% loyal. I doubt the regulars are.

For the rebels, it would be far more easier to infiltrate in the regular armie than it would be as for stormtroopers. You dont want to have rebel moles/saboteurs near your shield generator

dworkin · Post by **dworkin** » 2004-02-20 11:09am

Gil Hamilton wrote:Then why were the Stormtroopers guarding the base at Endor? That wasn't an assault. The Stormtroopers were on guard duty.

Didn't the Emperor want to crush the rebs? So he sent in his best troops. The Imps had recon forces out to find them and then presumably attack.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-02-20 12:43pm

wautd wrote:because of its importance i guess? You want to have the best to guard it.

Stormies are 100% loyal. I doubt the regulars are.

For the rebels, it would be far more easier to infiltrate in the regular armie than it would be as for stormtroopers. You dont want to have rebel moles/saboteurs near your shield generator

Why would it be any harder to infiltrate the Stormtroopers than anyone else? Han and Luke did it effortlessly in A New Hope and managed to wander freely around the DeathStar until Han was questioned by the guy in the prison block. You could just as easily have Army regulars guard it, and just screen them first. But they still used Stormtroopers and walkers.

Besides, do you really want to say that the Stormtroopers at Endor were the finest the Empire had? I mean, really really?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-02-20 12:45pm

God, will people just fucking drop the whole Ewok thing for once?

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-02-20 12:50pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:God, will people just fucking drop the whole Ewok thing for once?

How can we drop it? It's the second of the two major ground battles we actually see in the original trilogy, the first being Hoth. "Dropping it" would be taking away a fouth of the ground battles in all of StarWars (Naboo, Geonosis, Hoth, and Endor).

Kerneth · Post by **Kerneth** » 2004-02-20 12:50pm

Han and Luke managed to impersonate Stormtroopers for an extremely brief period of time. As soon as they ran into a security checkpoint, the attempt failed miserably.

Saying that Stormtroopers can't be all that loyal or secure because Han and Luke walked around in their uniforms for a while before getting busted is like saying security at a U.S. military installation is lousy because a guy who got a free ride through the initial security checkpoint and put on an appropriate uniform managed to walk around for a while, ignoring the fact that as soon as he tried to enter a secure area he got busted.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-02-20 12:52pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:God, will people just fucking drop the whole Ewok thing for once?
How can we drop it? It's the second of the two major ground battles we actually see in the original trilogy, the first being Hoth. "Dropping it" would be taking away a fouth of the ground battles in all of StarWars (Naboo, Geonosis, Hoth, and Endor).

I'm just fucking tired of the whole "oh, they can't be that good: they got beat by a bunch of cute teddy bears..." bullshit.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-02-20 12:55pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I'm just fucking tired of the whole "oh, they can't be that good: they got beat by a bunch of cute teddy bears..." bullshit.

Did I once bring up the Ewoks in my posts? I don't see them anywhere, but then again I don't have Spanky-vision. Please, point out where exactly I said anything other than that the Stormtroopers were on guard duty there and that they clearly weren't the Enpires best troop, since you obviously have a much firmer grasp on what I just got done writing than I do.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-02-20 01:00pm

Apologies. You mentioned Endor, so I assumed the next step that I thought someone would obviously take in the near future.

Demiurge · Post by **Demiurge** » 2004-02-20 01:33pm

Do the RPGs have any images of these troops? They looked to be wearing standard naval trooper uniforms in the Last Command comic adaptation.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2004-02-20 01:49pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:
wautd wrote:because of its importance i guess? You want to have the best to guard it.

Stormies are 100% loyal. I doubt the regulars are.

For the rebels, it would be far more easier to infiltrate in the regular armie than it would be as for stormtroopers. You dont want to have rebel moles/saboteurs near your shield generator
Why would it be any harder to infiltrate the Stormtroopers than anyone else? Han and Luke did it effortlessly in A New Hope and managed to wander freely around the DeathStar until Han was questioned by the guy in the prison block. You could just as easily have Army regulars guard it, and just screen them first. But they still used Stormtroopers and walkers.

Oh god do i really have to explain?

Hmm yeah that was a real subtle covert infiltration they did there.
Wandering around a short time before getting exposed is something else than get spy's in the Imperial army (which hopefully dont get exposed so fast). It would be logical that you get more easy recruited by the regular armie than the elite one. I don't know how effective that screening is but that shield was not only to protect the DSII but also the emporer who was there. You want to reduce the chance of having "deep moles" who can sabotage it so you use your most loyal troops.

Besides, do you really want to say that the Stormtroopers at Endor were the finest the Empire had? I mean, really really?

Endor was embarrasing for stormies.
If the stormies where elite as they supposed to are the rebels wouldnt had a chance. But its a movie, the last episode. People love happy endings

GySgt. Hartman · Post by **GySgt. Hartman** » 2004-02-20 02:41pm

I don't.

As for Endor: Stormies were stationed there because they are better than Army regulars. When I said Stormies had trouble holding anything, I meant holding it against a real army, wich has artillery, armor, and air support - not a bunch of terrorists. I don't see the problem with assigning stormtroopers for guard duty, there seem to be an awul lot of them. It's not like they are needed elsewhere.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-02-20 02:55pm

Imperial Army Assault Troopers are essentially the Empire's regular infantry forces. IIRC their uniform looks like a brown spin-off of the Naval Security uniform with body armor. A gray uniform denotes the elite commandos (think Veers' gear without the rank).

As for the stormtroopers, they're the marines. They hit hard, take control, and the Army moves in. The reason they aren't used to hold territory is because they don't operate on the scale the Army does, not because they're bad at it or anything. Endor was guarded by stormtroopers because it was a very small outpost supported by a Naval fleet.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-02-20 03:11pm

wautd wrote:Oh god do i really have to explain?

Hmm yeah that was a real subtle covert infiltration they did there.
Wandering around a short time before getting exposed is something else than get spy's in the Imperial army (which hopefully dont get exposed so fast).

I don't normally divde peoples paragraphs, but you've got two thoughts here.

It wasn't that just that they found some suits and were exposed at the first stop, they actually jumped and beat up the Stormtroopers what went on the Falcon and stole their suits and weapons, then walked off with them. That isn't good security. That's extremely bad security.

It would be logical that you get more easy recruited by the regular armie than the elite one. I don't know how effective that screening is but that shield was not only to protect the DSII but also the emporer who was there. You want to reduce the chance of having "deep moles" who can sabotage it so you use your most loyal troops.

The Stormtroopers don't seem too elite to me, considering they are used for everything, from lizard-riding policemen on desert shitholes like Tatooine to attacking Rebel bases.

Secondly, there is no reason why they couldn't use screening to weed out deep moles and besides, if they are so deep that they can get by a screening process, there is no reason they couldn't be a Stormtrooper.

Endor was embarrasing for stormies.
If the stormies where elite as they supposed to are the rebels wouldnt had a chance. But its a movie, the last episode. People love happy endings

You speak the truth, but unfortunately we suspend disbelief here. Saying that the Stormtroopers had to lose because the Bad Guys always lose doesn't cut the mustard here.

GySgt. Hartman wrote:I don't.

As for Endor: Stormies were stationed there because they are better than Army regulars. When I said Stormies had trouble holding anything, I meant holding it against a real army, wich has artillery, armor, and air support - not a bunch of terrorists. I don't see the problem with assigning stormtroopers for guard duty, there seem to be an awul lot of them. It's not like they are needed elsewhere.

This is going to piss off Spanky, but then again, when isn't he pissed off?

The Stormtroopers are Endor could not be described as good in any way shape or form. Their operation there was a clusterfuck from the ground up. They were using freakin' mecha chickenwalkers in the middle of a densely packed old growth forest, didn't clear cut around their base at all, and oh yeah, they got thumped by stone age hunter gatherer teddy bears and a handful of terrorist commandos! They could have literally have clear cut around their base, set up some pillboxes, and sat there drinking coffee and the Ewoks and Rebels wouldn't have been able to touch them. Sorry, Gunney, but I fail to see how the regular army could have done any worse.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2004-02-20 03:53pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:
wautd wrote: They could have literally have clear cut around their base, set up some pillboxes, and sat there drinking coffee and the Ewoks and Rebels wouldn't have been able to touch them. Sorry, Gunney, but I fail to see how the regular army could have done any worse.

It was a hidden backdoor. If you clear the area off all trees, plant it full of pillboxes it wouldnt be hidden anymore. Than again, it would be the best idea to do it as you said. But we gotta give the rebels some chance right?

(maybe if you replaced Ewoks with a tribe of leet uber mutant Wookies

)

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2004-02-20 03:55pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:Imperial Army Assault Troopers are essentially the Empire's regular infantry forces. IIRC their uniform looks like a brown spin-off of the Naval Security uniform with body armor. A gray uniform denotes the elite commandos (think Veers' gear without the rank).

Got a picture of that

And what does IIRC mean? (gotta know somethime

)

GySgt. Hartman · Post by **GySgt. Hartman** » 2004-02-20 04:01pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:It wasn't that just that they found some suits and were exposed at the first stop, they actually jumped and beat up the Stormtroopers what went on the Falcon and stole their suits and weapons, then walked off with them. That isn't good security. That's extremely bad security.

The ship had been searched, and they were called by a scanning crew to help. That's got nothing to do with bad security.

Secondly, there is no reason why they couldn't use screening to weed out deep moles and besides, if they are so deep that they can get by a screening process, there is no reason they couldn't be a Stormtrooper.

Stormies are better that Army troopers. Why would you go through the trouble of screening Army troopers if you can have Stormtroopers?

The Stormtroopers are Endor could not be described as good in any way shape or form. [...]

Since this thread isn't about Endor or Stormtroopers, I cut out the irrelevant parts. Endor has already been duscissed in detail. The question was why Stormtroopers were deployed, and I think that has been answered.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-02-20 04:06pm

IIRC = if I remember correctly

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-02-20 05:07pm

wautd wrote:Got a picture of that

I don't, no. But the amazing Crix Dorius does in this thread. For the Assault Trooper uniform, just imagine them in tan instead of black (on the back of one of the Thrawn Trilogy books).

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2004-02-20 06:58pm

Gil Hamilton wrote: For the rebels, it would be far more easier to infiltrate in the regular armie than it would be as for stormtroopers.

Different situation. Han and Luke killed 2 troopers and managed to avoid detection for a short time, the moment they were asked for something as simple as an operating number, they were screwed.
Infiltrating the stormies at the shield generator would require you to live with them for a period of time, during which you would almost certainly be discovered (assuming you just "replaced" a genuine trooper as Han and Luke did.). Infiltrating by actually joining the regular way wouldn't be useful, as even if you passed the security screenings, you would have no way to ensure you would be assigned to Endor.