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This does not include the Eclipse and Sovereign classes but Vader's Flagship

This discussion is also mostly based on the Novels I have read, other Novels may cotriduct me.

Based on the fight of Isard's flagship in the X-Wing Novels, I think that the SSD is badly overrated. It was almost overmatched in combat by a single Star Destroyer and seemed to be definately overmatched when it was attacked by two of them.

Opinions, attempts to strike me dead, grumbles at Stackpole...ect

Did it ever occur to you, that EU writers did't even had a clue of the abilities of commandships? They had butchered it so cruel, that it isn't even funny.
It is only a hint, that most EU writers hadn't even a clue what they are writing there, or hadn't bother to resaerch and think first.

Kitsune wrote:This does not include the Eclipse and Sovereign classes but Vader's Flagship

This discussion is also mostly based on the Novels I have read, other Novels may cotriduct me.

Based on the fight of Isard's flagship in the X-Wing Novels, I think that the SSD is badly overrated. It was almost overmatched in combat by a single Star Destroyer and seemed to be definately overmatched when it was attacked by two of them.

Opinions, attempts to strike me dead, grumbles at Stackpole...ect

Excuse me, 1 ISD, two squads of fighters,anAlderiaan Battlecruiser and a few doozen frieghters took Lusankya and as Drysso said it wehtered the worse Rogue squad could throw at it, Even without its fighter support Lusankya was on the verge of wining that fight The arrivle of a second ISD is what finished the lusankya with a fresh rested elite wing of A-Wings aboard.

Crazedwraith wrote:Excuse me, 1 ISD, two squads of fighters,anAlderiaan Battlecruiser and a few doozen frieghters took Lusankya and as Drysso said it wehtered the worse Rogue squad could throw at it, Even without its fighter support Lusankya was on the verge of wining that fight The arrivle of a second ISD is what finished the lusankya with a fresh rested elite wing of A-Wings aboard.

Even that attack should have been a non-threat to an Executor-class ship. Solo Command also BADLY under-rated the abilities of such a vessel. An Executor class ship should be worth more than ten ISD's with full starfighter complements in a straight-up fight, and while it won't have the versatility of a large group of smaller ships, it should have all of their firepower and shielding, and then some.

Master of Ossus wrote: Even that attack should have been a non-threat to an Executor-class ship. Solo Command also BADLY under-rated the abilities of such a vessel. An Executor class ship should be worth more than ten ISD's with full starfighter complements in a straight-up fight, and while it won't have the versatility of a large group of smaller ships, it should have all of their firepower and shielding, and then some.

That is close to my argument as well...for its size, the Executor seems way undergunned and shielded.

Tribun wrote:Did it ever occur to you, that EU writers did't even had a clue of the abilities of commandships? They had butchered it so cruel, that it isn't even funny.
It is only a hint, that most EU writers hadn't even a clue what they are writing there, or hadn't bother to resaerch and think first.

Yet based on an EU writer, the second Death Star construction was supplied by a single company.

I've speculated the Lusankya was undergunned and undershielded--its engines drastically beefed-up to exacerbate her performance as a de facto escape ship.

Not to mention sitting on Coruscant her fuel and weapons systems were probably not fully equipped or fueled or armed. And Thyferra hardly had the facilities for an SSD.

How was the "Knight Hammer" destroyed?

The Executor was destroyed relatively easily as well although it did seem to go down as easily as the Lusankya. I cannot say fow many ships it took but it did not seem to require its mass in Mon Calamari cruisers.

The Knight Hammer was either plunged into the Yavin gas giant or ripped apart by internal exploions from the onboard fuel. (Callista flew a Tie Bomber into the hanger bay then blew it up.)

Knight Hammer's engines were destroyed by the explosions of the TIE Bombers and was caught in Yavin's gravity well, where it plunged into the gas giant. It wasn't just the explosion of a single bomber that took out the engines-- Callista was in a hanger full of bombers and she wired each one to blow up.

I thought she blew up hers and it started a chain reaction.
Wiring every bomber on an SSD to blow without getting caught seems damnd near impossible.

Not every bomber. One of the controllers directed her into an aft hanger bay, near the engines, and she wired just the bombers left in the bay. I think the bombers were also fully fueled and armed. You could be right about the chain reaction, though- it's been a while since I read Darksaber and I'm not in any hurry to run to the library and check out a copy of the book any time soon.

Isn´t it a sad thing, that KJA gave the Knight-Hammer a much more realistic number for fighters and more plausible (tech-wise) destruction?

As for Lusankya added to the problems already mentioned, it suffered from a badly trained crew, too.

Kitsune wrote: The Executor was destroyed relatively easily as well although it did seem to go down as easily as the Lusankya. I cannot say fow many ships it took but it did not seem to require its mass in Mon Calamari cruisers.

The cruisers weren't what took down Executor though, neither were the A-Wings. It was the collision with the DSII.

Had the engines not misfired near the Death Star, the backup bridge would have taken over, and Executor would have smashed those Mon Cals. Look at it as it goes down, its really not that damaged.

FTeik wrote: As for Lusankya added to the problems already mentioned, it suffered from a badly trained crew, too.

I can even understand the reasoning but even with these weakness, she really had a bad showing.

Wasn't it undercrewed as well?

Yes.

Alderiaan Battlecruiser

What is an Alderiaan Battlecruiser? I haven't heard of it before.

Ronaldo wrote:

Alderiaan Battlecruiser

What is an Alderiaan Battlecruiser? I haven't heard of it before.

Old Clone Wars design. Alderaan had quite the military before they went pacifistic. Three of them were set to guard the Another Chance, the Alderaanian War Frigate (to nitpick the class, the ship in question was a War Cruiser) that carried Alderaan's weapons. They packed all their military hardware onto the War Frigate, automated it, automated three War Cruisers to escort it, and sent them to wander deep space until recalled.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I've speculated the Lusankya was undergunned and undershielded--its engines drastically beefed-up to exacerbate her performance as a de facto escape ship.

Yet it was able to singlehandedly punch a hole through Coruscant's defense shield. Doesn't seem bloody likely that it was undergunned. (undershielded, maybe.)

It seems liklier that Isard, who was having material/resourcee problems (The Rogues even speculated on this in The Bacta War, I believe) was not able to maintain the Lusankya at full effectiveness - the TIEs she had to trade bacta for with other Warlords is just one example. The Rogues quite possibly also indirectly sabotaged her by "feeding" her faulty components (I believe this also was discussed in The Bacta War)

Not to mention sitting on Coruscant her fuel and weapons systems were probably not fully equipped or fueled or armed. And Thyferra hardly had the facilities for an SSD.

Er, the Lusankya had a frigging repuslor bed to help it escape from the planet. If they thought THAT far ahead for escape, I doubt she'd be under-equipped. (escaping from Coruscant thorugh the shield, as well as fighting it out with the Golan may have hampered her some, though.)

Rogue 9 wrote:

Ronaldo wrote:

Alderiaan Battlecruiser

What is an Alderiaan Battlecruiser? I haven't heard of it before.

Old Clone Wars design. Alderaan had quite the military before they went pacifistic. Three of them were set to guard the Another Chance, the Alderaanian War Frigate (to nitpick the class, the ship in question was a War Cruiser) that carried Alderaan's weapons. They packed all their military hardware onto the War Frigate, automated it, automated three War Cruisers to escort it, and sent them to wander deep space until recalled.

That's not a battlecruiser.

EU authors have a hard time comprehending simple concepts, such as "firepower" and "broadsides"

Every Executor -class command ship that has been destroyed/disabled seems to have been done in by trickery, deux a machina plots, or bad writing Even Executor herself was taken down in a somewhat " lucky shot sir!" fashion, but what can you do
If the heavy metal was treated properly, there would be a whole lot less rebel admirals/generals around, and one hell of a lot less fighter squadrons -- but apparently the bad guys must all be inept, megalomaniacs, or just bloody stupid for the great rebel alliance to succeed ...

Connor MacLeod wrote:

Rogue 9 wrote:

Ronaldo wrote:
What is an Alderiaan Battlecruiser? I haven't heard of it before.

Old Clone Wars design. Alderaan had quite the military before they went pacifistic. Three of them were set to guard the Another Chance, the Alderaanian War Frigate (to nitpick the class, the ship in question was a War Cruiser) that carried Alderaan's weapons. They packed all their military hardware onto the War Frigate, automated it, automated three War Cruisers to escort it, and sent them to wander deep space until recalled.

That's not a battlecruiser.

That's why I said it was actually a War Cruiser. There was no Alderaanian Battlecruiser, if such a thing exists, present at Thyferra. I pointed out that it was actually a War Cruiser in my post, as emphasized.

Kitsune wrote:This does not include the Eclipse and Sovereign classes but Vader's Flagship.

This discussion is also mostly based on the Novels I have read, other Novels may cotriduct me.

Based on the fight of Isard's flagship in the X-Wing Novels, I think that the SSD is badly overrated. It was almost overmatched in combat by a single Star Destroyer and seemed to be definately overmatched when it was attacked by two of them.

The Executor's shields survived the simultaneous impact of a trio of Star Destroyers dropping directly out of hyperspace into them (IE, relatavistically traveling.) Sorry, try again.

The defeat of the Lusankya in The BActa War is vastly overrated. It hinged on the fact that:

A.) Wedge acquired eighty-some freighters that he equipped with capital scale warhead launchers acquired through Talon Karrde (Wayne Poe has pointed this out numerous times before.)

B.) The freighters targeting systems were coordinated through individual Rogue targeting computers (or in other words, they fired at the same moment as the X-wing their targeting was slaved to, allowing for the tactic of simultaneous detonations on a single point - which seems to improve the ability of overpowering shields.)

C.) The X-wings pulled their usual tactic of skimming close to the ship, (point blank range) - making it difficult if not impossible for the Lusankya's fighter defenses to shoot down either the fighters or their torpedoes (this has been demonstrated numerous times in canon, particularily TESB with the Falcon and ROTJ.)

Same applies with the Freedom (it was close to the ship and directly above it - not a good position to bring many guns to bear.) - This is also partly an example of Drysso's stupidity, since he did nothing to alter his position to bring more guns to bear. The Valiant was directly to the rear, battering the engines (the engines would complicate targeting - both because they represent a sensor blind spot as well as the fire arcs of the guns.

D.) Drysso. Not the most competent nor collected of captains. I do not believe that based on his performance he effectively fought the Lusankya as well as he should have.


Even considering all this, it has to be noted that the Lusankya was never really *destroyed*, just damaged enough to surrender (and the ship was never really damaged badly - it was salvaged and put into use by the Rebels after all. It also can be noted that Drysso never intended to destroy, only to capture, the Freedom. Not only did this enable it to be more of an offensive threat, the Lusankya was able to still maul the ship in fairly short order when an effort was actually made (and only by ion cannons!) Again, this is more due to Drysso's incompetence than anything else.

In reality, Wedge thought and feared that it would take at least a dozen X-wing squadrons to be able to attack the Lusankya - and he didnt even seem confident of success in that case!

Master of Ossus wrote:Even that attack should have been a non-threat to an Executor-class ship. Solo Command also BADLY under-rated the abilities of such a vessel. An Executor class ship should be worth more than ten ISD's with full starfighter complements in a straight-up fight, and while it won't have the versatility of a large group of smaller ships, it should have all of their firepower and shielding, and then some.

Sorry, pal. You can only take away points once in this case. We all know he used the wrong length. Wrong length = wrong combat ability = wrong result.

Solo Command ain't perfect, but it is closer to a good fight than a lot of others. Come on, ANYTHING has to be better than 'Bacta War'