Why make the DS2 so big?

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-02-22 11:29pm

This got me thinking, the DS1 was some 120km's in diameter (Acc. to the Death Star Sourcebook from WEG.) The second one being some 800 km's in diameter.

Why bother making the second one this big? I can only imagine how much power it would take. Not to mention resources and staffing.

Also, how could this Death Star be "more powerful"? What could they destroy that was bigger/stronger than a planet.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-02-22 11:36pm

DS2 was "more powerful" because it had a faster rate of fire, I think. From my understanding the DS1 could destroy a planet but it took them so-long to recharge the batteries - plus there was also the Achilles's heel which Luke took spectacular advantage of.

DS2 didn't have the achilles's heel. It also, as seen in the films, could fire quicker - though that was almost certainly a toned-down superlaser shot (why use max. firepower to take down a Liberty?).

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-02-22 11:48pm

Because in Star Wars increases in size lead to substantial increases in power. By making the DS2 as large as it was, it clearly becomes unbeatable by the sheer magnitude of firepower available to it.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2004-02-23 12:04am

Also, I believe the size allows for off-axis firing of the superlaser.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-02-23 12:13am

To nitpick, Death Star I was 160 km.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-02-23 12:15am

The first Death Star is 160 km in diameter, both via the film, and via the OT ICS.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-02-23 12:57am

One function of DS2 is to strike terror into the enemies of the Empire. After the original Death Star was destroyed, a second one of identical size might not necessarily produce the desired psychological effect, even if its Achilles Heel were removed.

However, a second Death Star with more than one hundred times the volume of the original Death Star would send an even more powerful message, about the strength and power of the Empire. It says, in essence, that the loss of the first Death Star was nothing.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-02-23 01:04am

Darth Wong wrote:One function of DS2 is to strike terror into the enemies of the Empire. After the original Death Star was destroyed, a second one of identical size might not necessarily produce the desired psychological effect, even if its Achilles Heel were removed.

However, a second Death Star with more than one hundred times the volume of the original Death Star would send an even more powerful message, about the strength and power of the Empire. It says, in essence, that the loss of the first Death Star was nothing.

Which also jives very well with the Tarkin Doctrine.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2004-02-23 03:36am

Well, if i may interject, it seems to me that it was so big because they could. I mean, what better use of resources than to put them into a weapon that could obliterate your enemies? But theres no point if their in a form thats easily destroyed (ie, star destroyers, SSDs, etc). The Death Star was so big, and had the protection of that nasty superlaser, that the only way to destroy it was through a massive fleet attack, and it would blow half your fleet away. They could build a weapon of that size with tehir technology, so they did. Also, i think we're thinking about this from a Human standpoint. Whatever those aliens were in Star Wars (i dont care who called them humans, they werent) they had the resources to build huge machines, things that would outstrip the resources of our entire world.

The fact is, that nothing was stopping them, and because they were arrogant, and had a megalomaniac for a leader, they did.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-02-23 06:18am

18-Till-I-Die wrote:The Death Star was so big, and had the protection of that nasty superlaser, that the only way to destroy it was through a massive fleet attack, and it would blow half your fleet away.

I was under the impression that the second Death Star was so heavily armed and shielded that the Rebels could never hope to put together a fleet big enough to destroy it with a conventional attack.

dworkin · Post by **dworkin** » 2004-02-23 06:20am

An alternate reason from Irregular Webcomic

http://www.dangermouse.net/cgi-bin/comic.pl?comic=110

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-02-23 06:32am

Uraniun235 wrote:I was under the impression that the second Death Star was so heavily armed and shielded that the Rebels could never hope to put together a fleet big enough to destroy it with a conventional attack.

I think that's essentially correct, though didn't the rebel fleet at Endor do some long range bombardments on the DS? Or were they concentrating on the Imperial fleet? I can see Ackbar ordering some of his ships to fire a short bombardment of the area the fighters were heading for, taking care of ancilliary defenders so the fighters have an easier time penetrating the defences - especially after the Executor took it's death-plunge.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2004-02-23 06:34am

Uraniun235 wrote:
18-Till-I-Die wrote:The Death Star was so big, and had the protection of that nasty superlaser, that the only way to destroy it was through a massive fleet attack, and it would blow half your fleet away.
I was under the impression that the second Death Star was so heavily armed and shielded that the Rebels could never hope to put together a fleet big enough to destroy it with a conventional attack.

Ok, well, maybe but i saw it a little different.

I always throught it was more of an 'iw ill because i can' sort of mentality. They had the resources, they had the technology...so they rebuilt it. Faster, stronger...the six million dollar...er, opps, got mixed up there

. But no seriously it was Palpy's sign to the universe, "This is my dick, see how big it is! And it has a superlaser, beat that! And if anyone attacks it they'll bleed their fleets dry...you know who the fuck you are!"

Smiling Bandit · Post by **Smiling Bandit** » 2004-02-23 10:51am

*Sigh*. If only the Emperor had simply used more practical forms of planetary destruction.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-02-23 10:59am

Planetary destruction was a secondary concern. The Death Stars were intended to win without having to fire a single shot.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-02-23 11:11am

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Well, if i may interject, it seems to me that it was so big because they could. I mean, what better use of resources than to put them into a weapon that could obliterate your enemies? But theres no point if their in a form thats easily destroyed (ie, star destroyers, SSDs, etc). The Death Star was so big, and had the protection of that nasty superlaser, that the only way to destroy it was through a massive fleet attack, and it would blow half your fleet away. They could build a weapon of that size with tehir technology, so they did. Also, i think we're thinking about this from a Human standpoint. Whatever those aliens were in Star Wars (i dont care who called them humans, they werent) they had the resources to build huge machines, things that would outstrip the resources of our entire world.

The fact is, that nothing was stopping them, and because they were arrogant, and had a megalomaniac for a leader, they did.

The problem with this is that it puts an enormous amount of resources is a localized place. Not only that but the the DS2 is a weapon that might be useful in a massive interstellar war, but not in a battle against the Rebels (the Imperial Fleet was more than sufficient for that).

Further, ROTJ showed us that the DS2 could be destroyed merely by a small explosion on the "power regulator" of the reactor. Can you imagine the disaster that would befall them if even one Rebel saboteur slipped through?

The whole Death Star idea was flawed from the beginning. Sure, it was probably a decent terror weapon, but why would you need such a device for quelling an insurrection? Wouldn't it be far more profitable to use the resources spent on the Death Star on training enough Stormtroopers and building enough garrisons to keep the populations of the core worlds in line? Heck, destroying planets in order to silence dissent wouldn't work at all; even if the Empire managed to secure the surrender of the Rebel Alliance from the threat of force, less moralistic terrorist groups would spring up. Not to mention that previous Imperial supporters can't have been too happy about the destruction of Alderaan in the first place; that kind of mass genocide has a tendency to stir up even further rebellion.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-02-23 11:17am

The Kernel wrote:
18-Till-I-Die wrote:Well, if i may interject, it seems to me that it was so big because they could. I mean, what better use of resources than to put them into a weapon that could obliterate your enemies? But theres no point if their in a form thats easily destroyed (ie, star destroyers, SSDs, etc). The Death Star was so big, and had the protection of that nasty superlaser, that the only way to destroy it was through a massive fleet attack, and it would blow half your fleet away. They could build a weapon of that size with tehir technology, so they did. Also, i think we're thinking about this from a Human standpoint. Whatever those aliens were in Star Wars (i dont care who called them humans, they werent) they had the resources to build huge machines, things that would outstrip the resources of our entire world.

The fact is, that nothing was stopping them, and because they were arrogant, and had a megalomaniac for a leader, they did.
The problem with this is that it puts an enormous amount of resources is a localized place. Not only that but the the DS2 is a weapon that might be useful in a massive interstellar war, but not in a battle against the Rebels (the Imperial Fleet was more than sufficient for that).

Further, ROTJ showed us that the DS2 could be destroyed merely by a small explosion on the "power regulator" of the reactor. Can you imagine the disaster that would befall them if even one Rebel saboteur slipped through?

The whole Death Star idea was flawed from the beginning. Sure, it was probably a decent terror weapon, but why would you need such a device for quelling an insurrection? Wouldn't it be far more profitable to use the resources spent on the Death Star on training enough Stormtroopers and building enough garrisons to keep the populations of the core worlds in line? Heck, destroying planets in order to silence dissent wouldn't work at all; even if the Empire managed to secure the surrender of the Rebel Alliance from the threat of force, less moralistic terrorist groups would spring up. Not to mention that previous Imperial supporters can't have been too happy about the destruction of Alderaan in the first place; that kind of mass genocide has a tendency to stir up even further rebellion.

Remember what it's whole purpose was as well.

Literally to lure Skywalker.

This was just the Emperor basically laughing at the Alliance to think they were anything to him but an annoyance.

If he seduced Skywalker, he didn't care what they did with the DS2...he would make another.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-02-23 11:24am

Ghost Rider wrote: Remember what it's whole purpose was as well.

Literally to lure Skywalker.

This was just the Emperor basically laughing at the Alliance to think they were anything to him but an annoyance.

If he seduced Skywalker, he didn't care what they did with the DS2...he would make another.

You have GOT to be fucking kidding. When was it even implied that the Emperor needed the DS2 to lure Skywalker to him? He knew that Luke would eventually seek out Vader and that Vader would bring Luke before him, so what difference does the venue make?

EDIT: And how about the fact that the Emperor seemed mildly surprised that Luke had actually shown up at Endor? Doesn't sound like a trap laid specifically for him now does it?

Further, despite the no doubt awesome industrial capacity of the Empire, the fact that they were having such security problems in the first place (massive fleets of Rebel warships hiding in their territories, Rebel spies, open dissent against the Empire) shows that the Empire needed those resources elsewhere in the form of more patrol ships and more troops on the ground breaking Rebel cells, maintaining an Imperial presence and generally making life difficult for the Rebels. Yet they apparently had entire worlds that openly supported them (Mon Calamari for example, which provided them with a fleet) and yet the Empire didn't have the resources to pacify them and decided to instead shoot their wad on yet another giant ray gun? Pathetic!

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-02-23 12:16pm

The size of the DeathStars tended to be inversely-proportional to the size of the penis of the person who ordered them built. It looks like the Dark Side really withered old man Palpatine in more places than his face.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-02-23 12:26pm

So the guys who designed the LAAT's were Executor-sized?

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-02-23 12:28pm

Howedar wrote:So the guys who designed the LAAT's were Executor-sized?

Nope, normal to large. It's a really sharp gradient.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-02-23 12:52pm

Further, despite the no doubt awesome industrial capacity of the Empire, the fact that they were having such security problems in the first place (massive fleets of Rebel warships hiding in their territories, Rebel spies, open dissent against the Empire) shows that the Empire needed those resources elsewhere in the form of more patrol ships and more troops on the ground breaking Rebel cells, maintaining an Imperial presence and generally making life difficult for the Rebels.

Oh come on. You can't possibly patrol all the vast area between the systems with any effectiveness, especially using a system like hyperdrive that leaves you blind to what you're passing during the jump. You can send ships to individual systems, but if the Rebels have deep space facilities good luck ever stumbling across them.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-02-23 12:57pm

Rogue 9 wrote: Oh come on. You can't possibly patrol all the vast area between the systems with any effectiveness, especially using a system like hyperdrive that leaves you blind to what you're passing during the jump. You can send ships to individual systems, but if the Rebels have deep space facilities good luck ever stumbling across them.

The Rebels will still need resources from populated planets which Imperial patrols can intercept. They will need to recruit new soldiers, conduct acts of espionage/sabotage/terrorism on planets, and every Rebel base we have seen has been on a planet (not saying that they don't have deep space bases, but they obviously found a great enough need for a planet base that they decided it was worth the risk).

Also, even if the Rebels stay hidden, they can't do any good in deep space, so as long as the Empire keeps their systems well patroled, it won't matter how well hidden the Rebels are since they won't be able to launch any sorts of raids on heavily defended Imperial worlds.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2004-02-23 01:01pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:The size of the DeathStars tended to be inversely-proportional to the size of the penis of the person who ordered them built. It looks like the Dark Side really withered old man Palpatine in more places than his face.

Precisely! Palpy has some serious issues if he needs to build a moon sized battlestation for teh same price as building a thousand Eclipse SSDs. Besides, both were terribly flawed weapons...i mean really, blown up by a fighter strike...twice? Can somebody say sealed compartment or must the engine be constantly open to attack. It'd be like a human with his chest cavity torn open, asumeing he could survive such a thing...

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-02-23 01:06pm

Once the DS2 was complete, it would have been immune to fighter attack. However, it's hard to get parts into the reactor when it's closed up. Hence access tunnels while construction was taking place.