Torpedo question

[Alyeska]

What is the generally accepted max yeild torpedo that X-Wings, Y-Wings, and B-Wings carry?

[Mr Bean]

We know that there exists Anti-Cap ship torpedos and that SW Fighters can carry them, However acutal yields are extremly hard to come by for the basic normal Proton and Concussion Torps avaible to Fighters plus the Cap-Ship Torps carried by the Victory Class SD and Super Star Destroyers which HAVE to be in the Gigaton range in order to be useful in a Captial Ship Fight

Estmates range anywhere from Low Teens to High(300s) Megatons on the normal run of the mill Proton Torps, However it should be noted that they are supposdly increably focused(Much like Modern RPGS) so that your typical torp will focus all of its descrutive power in a less than three meter area

[willburns84]

Another Torpedo question, if I might...

How maneuverable are proton torpedoes and heavier anti-ship projectiles? In ANH, we saw the two proton torpedoes making a sudden 90 degree turn into the exhaust port and in the various video games (yes, yes, I know what you're thinking) we see them able to track and pursue a moving target. Would they be able to fly in an "erratic" fashion to help pose a difficult target for turbolasers set on flak mode or say other defensive fire? Well have we seen these weapons perform the above action? At least in book form, etc?

And what are some of the ranges of these weapons? Forget the games, I know that much But are we talking about tens of thousands of kilometers? More? Less?

I'm starting to put together ideas etc for a 40K / SW crossover and these are things I need to know about... Hmmm, might need to start up another thread to get more answers, but this one question will do for now.

[Mr Bean]

Would they be able to fly in an "erratic" fashion to help pose a difficult target for turbolasers set on flak mode or say other defensive fire? Well have we seen these weapons perform the above action? At least in book form, etc?

Star by Star we have Fighters Moving at Fractions of C and Torps moving as much as .9C in speed

As for Moving Erraticly, They can be programed as such however tradtionaly they just light up and fly strait at the target, turning to catch it

[His Divine Shadow]

What is the generally accepted max yeild torpedo that X-Wings, Y-Wings, and B-Wings carry?

I don't give them any yields, they are not really conventional weapons in that regard, they are some weird proton-scattering devices.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

Another Torpedo question, if I might...

How maneuverable are proton torpedoes and heavier anti-ship projectiles? In ANH, we saw the two proton torpedoes making a sudden 90 degree turn into the exhaust port and in the various video games (yes, yes, I know what you're thinking) we see them able to track and pursue a moving target. Would they be able to fly in an "erratic" fashion to help pose a difficult target for turbolasers set on flak mode or say other defensive fire? Well have we seen these weapons perform the above action? At least in book form, etc?

And what are some of the ranges of these weapons? Forget the games, I know that much But are we talking about tens of thousands of kilometers? More? Less?

I'm starting to put together ideas etc for a 40K / SW crossover and these are things I need to know about... Hmmm, might need to start up another thread to get more answers, but this one question will do for now.

I think the ICS says that the torpedo has an arming shell, and that prvides the power for the torpedo, so it doesn't need a fuel reserve, I'd say pretty far, perhaps further than TL shots in the frictionless void of space. But, in atmosphere, they would be more limited.

[Master of Ossus]

Mike said that the torpedoes Luke fired pulled 72,000 g's when they maneuvered inside the DS's exhaust port.

[Alan Bolte]

I've never really understood this about Saxton's coversions from joules of energy required to produce known effects to weapons yields in tons of TNT:
are we talking a 10-100 megaton warhead, in which the high-powered blast is focused into a tiny cone? or are we talking a lower yield warhead, in which the blast is focused so that within the cone the effects are the same as if a higher-yield omnidirectional warhead was used?

[Sea Skimmer]

Another Torpedo question, if I might...

How maneuverable are proton torpedoes and heavier anti-ship projectiles? In ANH, we saw the two proton torpedoes making a sudden 90 degree turn into the exhaust port and in the various video games (yes, yes, I know what you're thinking) we see them able to track and pursue a moving target. Would they be able to fly in an "erratic" fashion to help pose a difficult target for turbolasers set on flak mode or say other defensive fire? Well have we seen these weapons perform the above action? At least in book form, etc?

And what are some of the ranges of these weapons? Forget the games, I know that much But are we talking about tens of thousands of kilometers? More? Less?

I'm starting to put together ideas etc for a 40K / SW crossover and these are things I need to know about... Hmmm, might need to start up another thread to get more answers, but this one question will do for now.

Star By Star had decoy-spewing torpedoes, which could corkscrew.

[Connor MacLeod]

Again, however, we point out that higher speeds face a trade-off in descreased manuverability (and a more predictable course.) plus, given the probable acceleration characteristics (Based on what is known) its not likely they could immediately reach near-c (I don't recall any statements of torpedoes ACTUALLY moving at .9c in Star by Star either...

[Mr Bean]

I belive the second in-gagement with the Vong and the stated fact that Coral Skippers can get up to .9C and yet Missles can still catch them

[hvb]

If we use Mikes estimate of 72,000g (and assume the missile has enough manouvering fuel) it could reach .9c in as little as 382 seconds, from a standstill (whatever a standstill is defined as in space ).
However the fighters firing on the Coral Skippers are moving, so the fuel reserve of the missiles may be smaller then this; or it may be larger, and if it is to be able to manouver after targets at these speeds, I would assume that the missile has at least the fuel to independently reach those speeds, else it would be too restricted in how much it could shift its launch vector.

[Mr Bean]

However the fighters firing on the Coral Skippers are moving,

Inbetween .1C to .3C not exactly sure as we have a quoted .1C then less than a mintue later they launch missles at the .9C Skippers which are caught up with in less than 30 seconds giving us very very fast acceration figures but the entire sceen is conjutture so I don't think we should take it on face value and instead look for a better one to use as a measurment

[His Divine Shadow]

If we use Mikes estimate of 72,000g (and assume the missile has enough manouvering fuel) it could reach .9c in as little as 382 seconds, from a standstill (whatever a standstill is defined as in space ).

Ofcourse I remember being told that the 75kilogee figure is a bare-bones lowend and that we can have figures as high up as 200kilogee's.
Which, gives us figures like 100 seconds for .6c

Ofcourse we're actually using a decceleration figure as acceleration for a missile, acceleration is bound to be higher.

[Connor MacLeod]

I belive the second in-gagement with the Vong and the stated fact that Coral Skippers can get up to .9C and yet Missles can still catch them

Second engagement? WTF? They fired on targets from head to head (and usually capital ships in SBS) and the only time missiles were used to my knowledge against Coralskippers was Destiny's Way (which was also the only one mentioning Coralskippers moving at relatavistic speeds, for that matter) but they were going HEAD TO HEAD with the Falcon. The Falcon has no rear firing missile launchers.

I wish you would really check your sources before making statements like this, it gets annoying to have to correct you like this.

[Connor MacLeod]

If we use Mikes estimate of 72,000g (and assume the missile has enough manouvering fuel) it could reach .9c in as little as 382 seconds, from a standstill (whatever a standstill is defined as in space ).
However the fighters firing on the Coral Skippers are moving, so the fuel reserve of the missiles may be smaller then this; or it may be larger, and if it is to be able to manouver after targets at these speeds, I would assume that the missile has at least the fuel to independently reach those speeds, else it would be too restricted in how much it could shift its launch vector.

Yes, but that is roughly six and a half minutes to do it, and you neglect the further problems of:

1.) Just how far the missile travels in this time (we're very likely talking AU here)

2.) The amount of reaction mass it burns up (no fighter missile could accelerate for MINUTES. Only missiles the size of slave-1/Falcon can do that, and I'm not even sure if thats standard or not (it was indicated to be the flight time of the Diamond-boron antifighter missiles in the EGW&T)

3.) the fact the missile loses any real chance at manuverability. Unless your opponent is similarly moving at relatavistic speeds, this is going to be useless against a slower opponent.

[Connor MacLeod]

However the fighters firing on the Coral Skippers are moving,

Inbetween .1C to .3C not exactly sure as we have a quoted .1C then less than a mintue later they launch missles at the .9C Skippers which are caught up with in less than 30 seconds giving us very very fast acceration figures but the entire sceen is conjutture so I don't think we should take it on face value and instead look for a better one to use as a measurment

Wrong.

SBS makes the following mentions:

1.) an explicit mention of the Barabel Jedi triplets (Tesar and his sisters, who die in the same book) moving at 10% of c while head to head against Coralskippers.

2.) The Wild Knight's first battle (where DAnni Quee is searching for a Yammosk) involves destroyting a Vong Cruiser with a 2 ton durasteel block accelerated by Saba Sebatyne's blastboat (which DAnni i sin) to a substantial fraction of c (not neccesarily near-c).

3.) The Talfaglio battle, which has several near-c references regarding the X-wings (moving at near-c, likely to close in on the Vong battlegroup)

4.) The Black Bantha Nebula mentions a ship could travel THROUGH it at near-c, but doesnt specify it in a combat situation.

5.) The Comet Cluster towards the end of the book, prior to the battle of Coruscant (where teh Vong are ambushed by the New Republic fleet under Sovv and aided by the Jedi) - the Jedi drop out from behind a comet and accelerate to near-light.

Destiny's Way:

1.) Chapter one mentions coralskippers making passes on the Falcon in a battle. The first quote mentions the coralskippers (or rather six of them) closing on the falcon and its attack at a "combined velocity of over 90% of c" (paraphrase, not a real quote) and the other two mentions involve only saying "near-lightspeed" (one is a coralskipper pair that flashes by the falcon, one which is destroyed before it could ram the ship, the other is pursuing and later set upon by clawcraft and E-wings under the command of Jag Fel at the end of the chapter.)

Traitor mentions a Yuuzhan Vong cruiser moving at near-c, but in a non combat situation (in-system travel.)

[Mr Bean]

What about the Barbel(The three or four Reptillian Jedi) fight VS the Coral Skippers in Star by Star?

[Connor MacLeod]

What about the Barbel(The three or four Reptillian Jedi) fight VS the Coral Skippers in Star by Star?

I *MENTIONED* that one. re-read what I posted. the Barabel fought at 10% of c, but to my memory did not launch missiles (only fought with laserS, intercepting incoming Coralskipper weapons)

[willburns84]

I appreciate the responses, although from the sounds of it there are still some things to sort out. I figure I'll take the gathered info and wing it from there.

Many thanks to everyone.

[hvb]

Conner Macleod:

The amount of reaction mass it burns up (no fighter missile could accelerate for MINUTES. Only missiles the size of slave-1/Falcon can do that

A cruise missile is smaller then both, don't tell me it can only go for 60 seconds or less (it is accelerating to counteract atmospheric drag all the time).
Anyway the power-source density is per canon (DS1 & DS2 main weapon firepower to mass ratio) non-translatable to any known fuel source, so we cannot limit the flight time of a torpedo on that basis either without having to rationalize the energy generation of the DS (there is an idea for a PhD paper! But I doubt it will lead to any useful theories )

[ClaysGhost]

A cruise missile is smaller then both, don't tell me it can only go for 60 seconds or less (it is accelerating to counteract atmospheric drag all the time).
Anyway the power-source density is per canon (DS1 & DS2 main weapon firepower to mass ratio) non-translatable to any known fuel source, so we cannot limit the flight time of a torpedo on that basis either without having to rationalize the energy generation of the DS

You need huge amounts of reaction mass as well as a magic power source. Hypermatter doesn't solve the reaction mass problem. You need hyperfuel. Obviously.

(there is an idea for a PhD paper! But I doubt it will lead to any useful theories )

So do I.

[Connor MacLeod]

Conner Macleod:

The amount of reaction mass it burns up (no fighter missile could accelerate for MINUTES. Only missiles the size of slave-1/Falcon can do that

A cruise missile is smaller then both, don't tell me it can only go for 60 seconds or less (it is accelerating to counteract atmospheric drag all the time).
Anyway the power-source density is per canon (DS1 & DS2 main weapon firepower to mass ratio) non-translatable to any known fuel source, so we cannot limit the flight time of a torpedo on that basis either without having to rationalize the energy generation of the DS (there is an idea for a PhD paper! But I doubt it will lead to any useful theories )

I'm not limiting anything, I'm stating official facts. Unless you have something of higher authority to draw on, they stand. The 60 second figure is from the games, the novels indicate a thirty second duration, and only large missiles (like the Falcon's or possibly capital scale) seem to have longer distances (The ten minute one comes from the EGW&T entry on the diamond-boron antifighter missile, which is a meter long)

And as Clays said, there is also reaction mass to consider (but not only that - the guidance system, the warhead itself, and whatever other elements they may include - some have decoys/release them, soem use armor to make them more resistant to point defense weapons, most missiles can generate a mild shield. Don't forget that they have elements that allow them to concentrate the yield also.) Considering all this must be put into a TINY warhead the size of a human head (we're talking a multimegaton warhead in most cases, not to mention the propulsion system whose performance we saw in ROTJ, and a decent targeting system) - sixty seconds or less does not appear to me to be all that unreasonable. LArger torpedoes probably can achieve greater durations, but few fighters CARRY the large torpedoes (the B-wing, perhaps).

[hvb]

I must have missed some referances to EU sources earlyer in the thread.
Okay so we say max 60 sec burntime, the reaction mass problem cannot be larger then the reaction mass problem for the fighters trying to avoid the missile though.
Anyway I am left with no usefull data for good calculations on the missiles, over and above EU obviously, after hearing that this was mostly a closing engagement, so I will just drop the subject here.

[Connor MacLeod]

I must have missed some referances to EU sources earlyer in the thread.
Okay so we say max 60 sec burntime, the reaction mass problem cannot be larger then the reaction mass problem for the fighters trying to avoid the missile though.

Those missiles are a miniscule fraction of the mass of a fighter, and travel much more quickly. Since typical fighter engagements are less than a thousand km, given the acceleration rates demonstrated, missiles should have no problem reaching a target in a short timeframe. The reason for misses is much miore likely to be EW and countermeasures.