The DS and Alderaan's "Graveyard"

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-02-28 04:48pm

Forgive the stupid question but i do the present DS calculations allow the supposed alderaan graveyard, as shown in the X-Wing books to excist? Or does the anayalsis show that such a graveyard is impossible?

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2004-02-28 05:08pm

If the calculations showed it was impossible, then some rationalisation would be required. I don't think the graveyard can simply be ignored.

Wild Karrde · Post by **Wild Karrde** » 2004-02-28 05:31pm

Simple, the planetary shield stopped Alderaan from being completey vaporised.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-02-28 05:34pm

How about the possibility of one ore more moons on the farside of Alderaan that absorbed a great deal of the Alderaan shrapnel and were turned into rubble?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-02-28 05:36pm

What rationalization is necessary? Han Solo came out of hyperspace expecting to see a planet, and instead saw only a meteor shower. Nowhere near as much mass as is implied in most descriptions of Alderaan's graveyard. Canon > Official.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-02-28 05:37pm

Guys, even if Alderaan was uniformly vaporized (it wasn't), that mass does not disappear; it'd condense back into metals and minerals.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-02-28 05:39pm

There's the other possibility of the heavier core metals gravity pulling stuff back together, or
the graveyard is a large field and X-wings are damn fast

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-02-28 05:44pm

Depends on how large it is, I suppose. The majority of the DS's debris was ejected outwards at tremendous velocities, but that doesn't mean all the debris was flung outwards at the same speed (some probably went alot faster, some much slower.)

In the ANH novelization, Han states that they should have emerged from hyperspace "one planetary diameter" from Alderaan, so they could not have been moving very fast, if at all, when they emerge into its remains (this also means the debris that is present is not moving very fast relative to them.) This formed a sort of "field" of sorts (probably temporary, though) Some debris would no doubt impact on the Death Star, which would (in addition to quite probably pulverizing some of it) retard its momentum. This probably gave the idea for the "Graveyard", but it probably would not be the graveyard (It would still be expanding after all.)

The Graveyard might be entirely artificial, though. Perhaps the Alderaan refugees (they're pretty damn rich IIRC) collected up the debris they could find and had the "Graveyard" created as a memorial. Its entirely possible the debris is not literally pieces of Aldaraan at all - it could just be any sort of rock or debris that is meant to represent the lost planet.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-02-28 05:46pm

Some of it might have also been bounced back off the Death Star's planetary shield, since it was sitting pretty close to the blast.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-02-28 05:49pm

Darth Wong wrote:Some of it might have also been bounced back off the Death Star's planetary shield, since it was sitting pretty close to the blast.

Well, I guess the Death Star "Magnetic shield" could had done that.

But then again, aren't impacts by asteroids usually vapourised.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-02-28 05:56pm

Darth Wong wrote:Some of it might have also been bounced back off the Death Star's planetary shield, since it was sitting pretty close to the blast.

Didn't I just say that?

Anyhow, I seem to recall this "Graveyard" thing as early back as in WEG (The whole "Another Chance" story) which I believe was prior to TESB.. so the Alderaanians may have been able to hunt down/recover enough of the debris to "create" a sort of artificial asteroid field. (I suppose if they might be able to track down some of it from its point of origin if they had enough data to work with.) Or at least enough of it to lend some sort of "legitimacy" to it and recreated it through other means.

Maybe the Empire even helped/encouraged it as propoganda, and they blamed its death on the Rebels like they did with Endor and the second Death Star. (would make sense.)

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-02-28 05:56pm

consequences wrote:How about the possibility of one ore more moons on the farside of Alderaan that absorbed a great deal of the Alderaan shrapnel and were turned into rubble?

Alderaan had no moon.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-02-29 01:34am

Tribun wrote:
consequences wrote:How about the possibility of one ore more moons on the farside of Alderaan that absorbed a great deal of the Alderaan shrapnel and were turned into rubble?
Alderaan had no moon.

"The Illustrated Star Wars Universe" states that Carlst Reikeen, the Commander of Echo Base, was supervising inspections of orbital sattelites on on oe Alderaan's moons when the DS paid its visit.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-02-29 01:44am

JME2 wrote:
Tribun wrote:
consequences wrote:How about the possibility of one ore more moons on the farside of Alderaan that absorbed a great deal of the Alderaan shrapnel and were turned into rubble?
Alderaan had no moon.
"The Illustrated Star Wars Universe" states that Carlst Reikeen, the Commander of Echo Base, was supervising inspections of orbital sattelites on on oe Alderaan's moons when the DS paid its visit.

Where was the moon, then? If Carlist Rieekan was on the moon it must have survived, but where was the moon when the Falcon came in?

But Alderaan must have had a moon whether it survived the blast or not. Han wouldn't have mistaken the Death Star for a moon if no moon was present in Alderaan's orbit. Hmm. Something's weird here.

Post by **Kuja** » 2004-02-29 02:28am

Rogue 9 wrote:But Alderaan must have had a moon whether it survived the blast or not. Han wouldn't have mistaken the Death Star for a moon if no moon was present in Alderaan's orbit. Hmm. Something's weird here.

Errr, wasn't LUKE the one who thought it was a moon?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-02-29 02:38am

Alderaan could have had a moon on the far side, which would explain why we didn't see it. But that moon would have been obliterated by the blast, of course.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-02-29 02:54am

In the movie novelization, Han Solo even says "That fighter is heading towards that moon... Strange, the charts say Alderaan has no moons. Well, astronomy wasn't my strong subject."

I'm paraphrasing, but that's pretty much what he said.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-02-29 03:07am

Kuja wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:But Alderaan must have had a moon whether it survived the blast or not. Han wouldn't have mistaken the Death Star for a moon if no moon was present in Alderaan's orbit. Hmm. Something's weird here.
Errr, wasn't LUKE the one who thought it was a moon?

Luke said it, but Han didn't dispute him or think that it was strange at all. And his star charts should have said whether Alderaan had a moon; he was jumping into the system at one planetary diameter from Alderaan and a moon in the wrong place could totally ruin his day, so it makes sense that he'd have checked up on the relevant bodies in the system.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-02-29 03:26am

CaptainChewbacca wrote:In the movie novelization, Han Solo even says "That fighter is heading towards that moon... Strange, the charts say Alderaan has no moons. Well, astronomy wasn't my strong subject."

I'm paraphrasing, but that's pretty much what he said.

Ah yes, thanks for the correction. Well, I guess that part of the official literature is bullshit then.

Rogue 9 wrote:Luke said it, but Han didn't dispute him or think that it was strange at all. And his star charts should have said whether Alderaan had a moon; he was jumping into the system at one planetary diameter from Alderaan and a moon in the wrong place could totally ruin his day, so it makes sense that he'd have checked up on the relevant bodies in the system.

Han can be forgiven for not making a fuss about an unexpected moon when he's already faced with a missing planet.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-02-29 03:30am

Darth Wong wrote:Han can be forgiven for not making a fuss about an unexpected moon when he's already faced with a missing planet.

Granted.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-02-29 12:13pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:In the movie novelization, Han Solo even says "That fighter is heading towards that moon... Strange, the charts say Alderaan has no moons. Well, astronomy wasn't my strong subject."

I'm paraphrasing, but that's pretty much what he said.

Okay, wild ass guess retracted then.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-02-29 02:12pm

Hey, I contributed! YAY!

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-02-29 02:32pm

Darth Wong wrote:Alderaan could have had a moon on the far side, which would explain why we didn't see it. But that moon would have been obliterated by the blast, of course.

Another interesting point.. how fast would the moon's debris be moving outwards, and would that not also slow some debris expanding from Alderaan (and maybe thus contrtibute some ot the Graveyard?)

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-02-29 02:42pm

From the novel (I'm visiting my parents, got it out of storage)

"He's heading towards that small moon." Luke murmered.
"The Empire must have an outpost there," Solo admitted. "Although according to the Atlas, Alderaan has no moons." He shrugged it off. "Galactic topography was never one of my best subjects. I'm only interested in worlds and moons with customers on them.

Emphasis mine. Anyone know if a moon of Alderaan is mentioned anywhere besides the 'Illustrated Universe?" I'm inclinded to go with the novel that it had no moon, regardless of how screwed up Alderaan would be without one.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-02-29 02:44pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I'm inclinded to go with the novel that it had no moon, regardless of how screwed up Alderaan would be without one.

Why do you say that?