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PILOTS??!?!?!?!?!!!???

I mean, you put a living moving droid into a ship to move it around and shoot things up and dog fight and blow shit up. But... WHY?! Can't you just shove the droid's brain into the ship and tank's control systems and save some space while they're at it?

Okay, I understand the need to put droids in the tanks. You need someone to defend against enemies in an urban warfare environment. But why put pilots on droid ships? Why not make then UAVs or something?

Shroom Man 777 wrote:PILOTS??!?!?!?!?!!!???

I mean, you put a living moving droid into a ship to move it around and shoot things up and dog fight and blow shit up. But... WHY?! Can't you just shove the droid's brain into the ship and tank's control systems and save some space while they're at it?

Okay, I understand the need to put droids in the tanks. You need someone to defend against enemies in an urban warfare environment. But why put pilots on droid ships? Why not make then UAVs or something?

Well, perhaps i'm missing something so correct me if i'm wrong, but i think the idea is that if someone boards the ship battle droids can deffend it better than just sentry turrets or something. You saw the huge droid starfighter/mech walking around in TPM, that thing could reap god awful hell against any boarding party, plus destroyer droids (or droidekas) and such would be more useful against boarders because they have real shields, and this gives them a profound advantage. It also, i assume, prevents any one fleet commander from becoming too powerful. The droids, i bet, can be shut down by the high command or whatever, and thus if so and so decides to rebel, his droids and thus his fleet/army is shut down. Of course, i may be wrong, but it seems very logical to me.

on boarding yes. But i agree its kinda dumb to put droids in tanks

Uh... I was talking about starfighters. I should've clarified that.

I think the reason that they have droid pilots inside their tanks and transports is so that in a pinch (eg. droid control ship gets disabled or some such), hired mercenaries or even the Neimodians themselves can operate the vehicles.

IIRC, I thought the Trade Fed starfighters were droids. Didn't we see the the actual starfighters walking around in the hangar like a transformer at the same time Anakin crashed into it?

Bertie Wooster wrote:IIRC, I thought the Trade Fed starfighters were droids. Didn't we see the the actual starfighters walking around in the hangar like a transformer at the same time Anakin crashed into it?

I just checked the Ep1 ICS, and Trade Fed droid fighters are in fact piloted strictly by a droid brain, with no room for a pilot.

Bertie Wooster wrote:IIRC, I thought the Trade Fed starfighters were droids. Didn't we see the the actual starfighters walking around in the hangar like a transformer at the same time Anakin crashed into it?

Yup, the starfighters are.

I see the Tanks are driven, as a back up persay and it's able now to fend off boarders better.

I mean if some yahoo wants to place a mine on it and has gotten that close to the tank, well at least with the droid, it can pop the canopy and shoot the guy.

No, I don't think their is any military reason for having tank pilots. The tanks are already backed up by infantry.

The most logical reason is that the Nemoidians simply bought a stock type of product in bulk. Since their army was fairly small, it would not be worth the cost to design a dedicated droid tank. They may also was felt larger, roomier tanks were easier to repair, or used standardized parts, or wanted to be able to replace pilots more easily.

Smiling Bandit's explanation is the most plausible; those tanks are probably not designed as part of the dedicated "droid army" ensemble.

Am I going to have to start penalizing people all around for deliberately using partial sentences as thread titles?

I think the main reason is standardization. You design a fighter or a tank for human-sized operators. OTOH you design a human-shaped droid to replace a human under cetrain circumstances.

This is probably cheaper for big volumes, but what you at least got is a more flexible upgrade path (e.g. replace droid-pilots by better models, but keep the fighters). Besides, human and droid operators are easily interchangable.

Darth Wong wrote:Am I going to have to start penalizing people all around for deliberately using partial sentences as thread titles?

Well, that explains the title I guess. Was wondering about that...

BabelHuber wrote:I think the main reason is standardization. You design a fighter or a tank for human-sized operators. OTOH you design a human-shaped droid to replace a human under cetrain circumstances.

This is probably cheaper for big volumes, but what you at least got is a more flexible upgrade path (e.g. replace droid-pilots by better models, but keep the fighters). Besides, human and droid operators are easily interchangable.

Not true, the droid brain can just be a single computer module that could be yanked out and replaced, or just a software rewrite. Besides, with the numbers of those things being produced, it would be easier just to relegate the old models to planetary security on the factories, and replace the carrier fleet's inventory entirely with a new model.

Not true, the droid brain can just be a single computer module that could be yanked out and replaced,

How do you get the droid brain into the ship? You just have to tell a droid to do his work, while the usage of stationary brains would require somebody who yanks it out and replaces it, e.g. other droids.

The second question is if it is much more expensive to manufacture a droid instead of just a brain in the SW galaxy, which is not a given regarding the differences in complexity.
Besides brains cannot step out of their vehicle and fight, they cannot operate independent from their vehicle, etc.

Besides, with the numbers of those things being produced, it would be easier just to relegate the old models to planetary security on the factories, and replace the carrier fleet's inventory entirely with a new model.

Where did you get this from? Older models can be used for simpler tasks or being recycled. How much droids do you think one would need to guard a factory? Everyone that's ever been produced?

Am I going to have to start penalizing people all around for deliberately using partial sentences as thread titles?

How about changing the custom title to the thread title

BabelHuber wrote:
How do you get the droid brain into the ship? You just have to tell a droid to do his work, while the usage of stationary brains would require somebody who yanks it out and replaces it, e.g. other droids.

The second question is if it is much more expensive to manufacture a droid instead of just a brain in the SW galaxy, which is not a given regarding the differences in complexity.
Besides brains cannot step out of their vehicle and fight, they cannot operate independent from their vehicle, etc.

Point 1, you have the droids that have already been built to conduct ship repair swap out the module. Unless you decide to not bother with repairs at all given the cheaness of replacement, in which case you have a subroutine in the capital ship maintenance droids to accomplish the same thing.

Point 2, since a droid has moving parts, its going to be a hell of a lot more difficult to manufacture than a box with a computer in it. Think independent power source, locomotion, built in sensors, communication equipment.

Point 3, reduced target profile. There is no need to have a starfighter pilot that doubles as an infantryman when every carrier already holds hundreds of thousands of purpose designed infantry. Adding in those unneeded features is going to increase the complexity of the droid brain required, increase the size of the fighter, and require a whole new droid design to be manufactured.

Besides, with the numbers of those things being produced, it would be easier just to relegate the old models to planetary security on the factories, and replace the carrier fleet's inventory entirely with a new model.

Where did you get this from? Older models can be used for simpler tasks or being recycled. How much droids do you think one would need to guard a factory? Everyone that's ever been produced?

For numbers, consider the blockade of Naboo. For each of those ships to have the standard fighter complement would require upwards of three million fighters embarked, and there is no sane reason to send your ships into hostile territory under-equipped, especially when you are the one initiating the conflict.
Personally, I would want the defenses of my factories to be as ludicrously overdone as practical. Since those fighters are not going to have a great effect unless used in massive numbers, and anything larger is likely to be taken away for other critical missions at some point, I would want to have my defenses that can't be easily stripped to be thorough. There is also the fact that they are going to cost practically nothing to be kept sitting in orbit.

Point 1, you have the droids that have already been built to conduct ship repair swap out the module. Unless you decide to not bother with repairs at all given the cheaness of replacement, in which case you have a subroutine in the capital ship maintenance droids to accomplish the same thing.

You still have your brain tied to the ship. It can do shit in this position, when all systems are down, it cannot defend itself etc. This important point must not be overseen.
This has nothing to do with astromech droids, which you need anyways. What you don't need are droids which take care of the brains. Of course you still need some maintanence droids/facilities somewhere, but much less.

Point 2, since a droid has moving parts, its going to be a hell of a lot more difficult to manufacture than a box with a computer in it.

Simple logic - and real-life - tells us that more very complex systems needs far more resources/money to develop and produce than simpler ones. The most expensive parts in a PC are the CPU and the graphics card, not the DVD-burner or the power supply.

Of course a brain is cheaper than a droid, but the question is by how much. Additionally you must take into account that a brain needs to be taken care of more often, which adds costs. And still a brain is not as flexible as a droid, so its possibilities are more limited.

Point 3, reduced target profile.

This must be a joke. I can kick around a brain like a soccer ball.

There is no need to have a starfighter pilot that doubles as an infantryman when every carrier already holds hundreds of thousands of purpose designed infantry.

You almost got it. What a difference in prize or resources do a few hundred droids make compared to a few hundred brains, when you already have hundreds of thousands of droids anyway?

And still your dedicated droid fighters lack the possibility to be used by humans, too. They are produced in smaller lot sizes than 'one size fits all'-fighters and the manufacturer needs more different variants of his fighters at the same time, which all adds costs

For numbers, consider the blockade of Naboo. For each of those ships to have the standard fighter complement would require upwards of three million fighters embarked, and there is no sane reason to send your ships into hostile territory under-equipped, especially when you are the one initiating the conflict.
Personally, I would want the defenses of my factories to be as ludicrously overdone as practical.

ROFL! You really want to defend your factories with huge amounts of droids!

I personally would use planetary shields, because usually the purpose of attacks in a war is to destroy the target, not to capture it. If your shields fail, a billion droids won't help against a BDZ operationfrom orbit.

Of course a 'brain' has its advantages, too. But since droids are commonly used in the SW galaxy instead of brains, the advantage of droids must outweigh their disadvantages.

To go in order, cuz I don't have the energy to quote and paste:

1: If the enemy has already gotten into my carrier/ground base/shipyard/whatever, he has already disposed of my defense forces, and one more batch of half-assed infantrymen isn't going to help much.
However, a group of fully capable fighters may turn the tide.
There is no reason to have the droids shut down to the levels you are describing in the first place, unless the thing is being totally rebuilt, in which case its not going to contribute in the first place.

2:Hello? If the brain is sitting by itself, not doing anything, and hasn't been specifically manufactured to fail within the decade, its not going to need that much maintenance. Moving parts=mechanical difficulties, so a droid is going to need far more repair work. The only thing a brain in a box can't do is get out of the fighter, get blown up by a yahoo with a blaster, and allow the fighter to be commandeered. Plus for the effort not spent designing and building the pilot droid, I can have that many more regular battle droids providing security.

3: Reduced target profile for the fighter, oh militarily ignorant one.

3a: purely relative costs rapidly add up for example:

Would you rather have 20000 purpose built starfighters(with a reduced target profile, and slightly higher engine efficiency) and 320000 battle droids, or 20000 starfighters piloted by humanoid droids, (that are going to get shot down 99.98 percent of the time, and not noticeably contribute,) and 300000 battledroids.

4: I personally would take out your planetary shield with a massive kinetic strike, and then stroll in and capture your base. Or are we going to do each other the courtesy of not assuming that base defenses are strictly one-dimensional?

The answer to why the Trade Federation has droid brain controlled starfighters and battle droids driving tanks is this reason, well in my opinion anyway
The Old Republic allowed the Trade Federation to increse their space "defense" systems with more fighters after the "terroists" actions in Cloak of Deception. The Republic however did not allow them to make ground vehicles. The Trade Federation tanks are not actually made originally by the Trade Federation, probally some planet that was original using them as police forces than they were contracted with the Trade Federations trading buisness and they used their tanks without the Republic being the wiser.

Actually, I've had a problem with the whole droid starfighter thing anyway. IMHO, the nemoidians were terrible strategists, right down to the design of their fleets. Also, if the droid starfighters had droid "brains" why would they have need for information/direction from the droid control ship? If they had brains, couldn't they act independently? Artificial Intelligence seems to be pretty advanced if a 10-year old can build and program C-3PO, and even pit droids have sufficient AI to have a personality (I don't think a programmer would program mischeviousness) so why not give your starfighters artificial intelligence? The Nemoidians don't, though. They recieve their direction from the droid control ship and not their brains, so instead of brains they should just some kind of antenna that directs them from the ship. But that's really dumb. Also, the droid armies seem to have some kind of intelligence. For example, one droid attempts to arrest Amidala and her posse in Theed. Does this action get reported back and forth through a the Droid Control ship or does the droid have its own will? If it does, then why didn't the droids keep firing once the droid control ship was destroyed? It seems to me like the Nemoidians didn't want to be successful in their blockade, since their technology requires that every single action must be either given the "ok" or is actually specifically directed from the droid control ship. Every trigger finger, every turning head, every step must be from a signal from the droid control ship. (Why didn't they jam the signal?)

As for the droids manning the tanks, Tychu has a pretty reasonable opinion. Or, perhaps the droid control ship just couldn't handle it all.

each droid controls a specific function. for example, in modern fighter jets there's often two individuals in it, the navigator and the pilot, and each one does a specific task. i'd imagine it wouldn't be much different with droids, where one was needed to work the complexities of navigation and calculating courses, and feed it to the pilot droid, while the other focused on shooting, piloting the craft and making sure they didn't get blown up.