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Another Alternative Endor Tactic
Posted: 2004-03-05 09:37pm
by Darth Raptor
When the Tyderium entered the Endor system, why didn't Vader capture the shuttle instead of allowing it to land? It seems like the painfully obvious solution to this scenario. Rather than allowing the strike team to land and fuck things up, why not a squadron of gunboats followed by the Executor's tractor beam?
Posted: 2004-03-05 10:07pm
by Howedar
Because there would be a risk that the shuttle would get off a transmission to the Rebel fleet or jump to hyperspace (since there were no interdictors present).
Posted: 2004-03-05 10:13pm
by Darth Raptor
I figure lift the shield and give them the all clear, and while they're on their way down nail them with an ion cannon. And why couldn't they jam the communications on an obsolete Lambda?
Posted: 2004-03-05 10:13pm
by Elheru Aran
Also, one has to remember that Vader was following the Emperor's orders... Palpy wanted the fleet to show up, so he could make a few pretty explosions to infuriate Luke into accepting the dark side.
Capturing the shuttle would've botched matters, especially if there was a function to launch a message pod or to automatically broadcast a warning to the Rebels if a tractor beam locked on (not implausible, and actually a pretty good thing to do tactically). So, capturing the shuttle would've just warned the Rebels off; and Palpy would be out of a Rebel fleet to destroy. Admittedly, he could probably torture Han, Leia, and the gang, in front of Luke... hmm...
Posted: 2004-03-05 10:17pm
by Darth Raptor
SSDs have ion cannons do they not? They could fry every piece of electronics onboard. The strike team wouldn't have time to react, and even if the shuttle had an automatic transmission in the event of tractor beam lock-on wouldn't that have been killed as well?
Posted: 2004-03-05 10:20pm
by Spanky The Dolphin
And what if the Rebel Fleet suddenly loses contact with the shuttle and aborts the attack?
Posted: 2004-03-05 10:26pm
by Darth Raptor
Did the Rebel's even have contact with the team? If they did, you would think they would have been periodically updated as to the strike teams progress. I'm inclined to think they didn't, because of their surprise at the shield still being up. Also, wouldn't the strike team need to maintain communications silence? A high power transmission from Endor to Sullust does not seem very smart to me.
Posted: 2004-03-05 10:28pm
by Spanky The Dolphin
Realised that after I posted.
But why would Vader want to kill Luke?
Posted: 2004-03-05 10:33pm
by Darth Raptor
He doesn't want to kill Luke. That's why I'm talking about bringing the shuttle in, rather than blasting it out of the sky.
Posted: 2004-03-05 10:47pm
by Elheru Aran
Well, you do have to remember that Palpy was idiot enough to underestimate the Rebels... Vader may very well have been under orders to permit a ship carrying his son (a known Rebel by then) through.
I will admit that it would have been seriously idiotic to do so, but being the megalomaiac that Palpy was ("a legion of our best troops are on the surface right now, rounding up your measly little rebel friends"...), well, I wouldn't credit megalomaniacs with having a reputation for intelligent decisions...
Posted: 2004-03-06 12:45am
by Trytostaydead
This all goes in with the damn Rebel luck. If anything, predestination.. the Force has its own will.
Palpatine forsaw everything correctly.. he knew the rebel fleet would come in and be promptly overwhelmed by the DSII and his own fleet. He also knew about the rebel saboteurs, and he had dispatched a legion of his best troops. He foresaw that Luke would come to him. Just think of Joruus C'boath.. both him and Palpatine saw the future correctly, but just an incomplete picture. If anything, they were betrayed by the Force. I mean, everything else went according to plan for Palpatine for God knows how many years.. but the Force failed to show him one intsy beetsy factor: That Vader would turn back to the light.
Of course, this is countered by Yoda who said, "future.. always in motion" or something to that effect. But I choose to take that as meaning that while they can glimpse into the future, all they see are just incomplete fragments and you can never get the full story until you're there.
So back to the topic, Palpatine foresaw everything and he moved his pieces accordingly, he wanted to toy with them. But the Force was also in motion (and apparently merchandising because the Empire failed to xenocide the Ewoks), and Vader turned.. the Ewoks overwhelmed a legion of the Emperor's best of the best. Shit happens.
If Palpatine WASN'T relying on his vision, and wasn't trying to be clever and toy with the rebels before their destruction.. well, there are a LOT of things you could've done.
Captured the rebels as soon as they landed. Ion cannons. Unleashed the Star Destroyers as soon as the rebels entered the system. Etc etc.
Posted: 2004-03-06 12:53am
by Ghost Rider
Actually numerous times they mention in EU that Palpatine saw his demise but was so arrogant he merely thought of it as poor misconception.
His plan nearly suceeded if not for one Wookiee getting lucky and Vader turning.
Even as much as fiasco as it turned out, he still nearly killed the Alliance and Skywalker.
Posted: 2004-03-06 01:07am
by Elheru Aran
Even as much as fiasco as it turned out, he still nearly killed the Alliance and Skywalker.
Which was the idea in the first place...
Posted: 2004-03-06 10:38am
by Lord of the Farce
I think it was pretty important to Vader and/or Palpatine that Luke came to them of his own free will.
Posted: 2004-03-06 11:15am
by Rogue 9
Lord of the Farce wrote:I think it was pretty important to Vader and/or Palpatine that Luke came to them of his own free will.
Then what was the whole deal with trying to capture him on Bespin? With carbonite, no less.
Posted: 2004-03-06 11:17am
by Ghost Rider
Rogue 9 wrote:Lord of the Farce wrote:I think it was pretty important to Vader and/or Palpatine that Luke came to them of his own free will.
Then what was the whole deal with trying to capture him on Bespin? With carbonite, no less.
Because he was still weak enough to be molded.
Also it was free will again, or did you think Vader was torturing Han and Leia for kicks?
Posted: 2004-03-06 02:17pm
by Sharp-kun
Howedar wrote:Because there would be a risk that the shuttle would get off a transmission to the Rebel fleet or jump to hyperspace (since there were no interdictors present).
Hyperspace can be prevented by simply locking a tractor when its closest to Executor. Jamming would prevent any transmission.
Tyderium passed close enough to Executor to make its capture a simple matter. Had Vader done the smart thing, Endor would have been different. The Emperor would probably still die, but the Alliance would be wiped out.
Posted: 2004-03-06 02:42pm
by Howedar
They couldn't take the risk. Hell, what if Luke was in contact with Leia via the force? They don't know.
Letting the force land anyway seemed a foolproof tactic anyway, why take the extra risk?
Posted: 2004-03-06 03:15pm
by Sharp-kun
Howedar wrote:They couldn't take the risk. Hell, what if Luke was in contact with Leia via the force? They don't know.
They didn't know Leia was force sensitive so that wasn't an issue.
Posted: 2004-03-06 04:15pm
by Lord Pounder
Sharp-kun wrote:Howedar wrote:They couldn't take the risk. Hell, what if Luke was in contact with Leia via the force? They don't know.
They didn't know Leia was force sensitive so that wasn't an issue.
Wasn't Leia on the shuttle with Luke anyway?
Posted: 2004-03-06 04:23pm
by Howedar
They didn't know Leia was force sensitive so that wasn't an issue.
The Emperor might well have known.
Wasn't Leia on the shuttle with Luke anyway?
Haha I knew that.
Posted: 2004-03-06 05:46pm
by CaptainChewbacca
Evil Overlord rule #110:
110. I will not employ devious schemes that involve the hero's party getting into my inner sanctum before the trap is sprung.
Other things Palpatine forgot:
20. Despite its proven stress-relieving effect, I will not indulge in maniacal gloating. When so occupied, it's too easy to miss unexpected developments that a more attentive individual could adjust to accordingly.
23. I will keep a special cache of low-tech weapons and train my troops in their use. That way -- even if the heroes manage to neutralize my power generator and/or render the standard-issue energy weapons useless -- my troops will not be overrun by a handful of savages armed with spears and rocks.
29. I will dress in bright and cheery colors, turtlenecks and sweater-vests, and so throw my enemies into confusion.
56. My Legions of Terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
76. If the hero runs up to my roof, I will not run up after him and struggle with him in an attempt to push him over the edge. I will also not engage him at the edge of a cliff. (In the middle of a rope-bridge over a river of molten lava is not even worth considering.)
77. If I have a fit of temporary insanity and decide to give the hero the chance to reject a job as my trusted lieutenant, I will retain enough sanity to wait until my current trusted lieutenant is out of earshot before making the offer.
106. If my supreme command center comes under attack, I will immediately flee to safety in my prepared escape pod and direct the defenses from there. I will not wait until the troops break into my inner sanctum to attempt this.
116. If I capture the hero's starship, I will keep it in the landing bay with the ramp down, only a few token guards on duty and a ton of explosives set to go off as soon as it clears the blast-range. (This one was Vader's Mistake)
130. All members of my Legions of Terror will have professionally tailored uniforms. If the hero knocks a soldier unconscious and steals the uniform, the poor fit will give him away.
147. I will classify my lieutenants in three categories: untrusted, trusted, and completely trusted. Promotion to the third category will be awarded posthumously.
Is it any wonder he lost?
Posted: 2004-03-06 06:05pm
by Crazedwraith
Stormies actually are pretty good shots. As long as they don't have character shields to contend with.
And the ewoks would have been massacred if your un-ranked namesake hadn't decided to play grand theft AT-ST
Posted: 2004-03-06 06:12pm
by CaptainChewbacca
Crazedwraith wrote:Stormies actually are pretty good shots. As long as they don't have character shields to contend with.
And the ewoks would have been massacred if your un-ranked namesake hadn't decided to play grand theft AT-ST
He was a commander, a greak wookiee
I bear his name gladly. Besides, the ewoks had already destroyed 3 AT-ST's before Chewie got into one.
Posted: 2004-03-07 03:09am
by Ma Deuce
116. If I capture the hero's starship, I will keep it in the landing bay with the ramp down, only a few token guards on duty and a ton of explosives set to go off as soon as it clears the blast-range. (This one was Vader's Mistake)
I thought the idea was to
let them escape so that the hidden tracking device on the Falcon would lead the Death Star right to the Rebel base?
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Besides, the ewoks had already destroyed 3 AT-ST's before Chewie got into one.
Even so, the Ewoks were being routed by the time Chewie stole the AT-ST.