New Continuity Commentary

[Illuminatus Primus]

http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp? ... t=15168199

[McC]

Ok...

So...?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

So what's the word, IP?

Usually it helps to write at least something in an OP.

[Galvatron]

Is this the least bit surprising?

[Illuminatus Primus]

I don't know if Troy's book is going to clear up the Fel brothers issue. We had problems with Chak when Tim brought him in, and wanted him to use an already-named brother, but he felt strongly about this. Sometimes it's decided to let an author have something they're insisting on and try to work it out later, than tell the author no, and have creative flow interrupted. It's a judgment call --

We believe that Chak is actually Davin, but Tim Zahn wanted to call him Chak.

And those who claim I'm off my mark when I claim Tim Zahn's a prick and refuses to cooperate with others on continuity and consistently behaves as if he's an overriding authority on the post-ROTJ EU, especially sacrosant are his characters, which apparently he thinks he can change as he desires.

Discrepencies...tend to favor the more recent source...Most recently published (or in some cases, yet-to-be-published.) We definitely wouldn't want to ignore outright anything said previously and we try to reconcilliate any apparent discrepancies whenever possible

Apparently in continuity fixes, newer sources now officially are favored (translation for those using dicto simpliciter and wanting to say that the newer sources always trumps the earlier one; the newer one is favored, or more authoritive, but the old one doesn't vanish and can't be waved off).

[Xon]

http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp? ... t=15168199

Hmm. A clear case of a Post & run.

As my signature says; "It is a sad day when star trek continuity is kept better than star wars continuity."

Scary.

[Shaidar Haran]

And those who claim I'm off my mark when I claim Tim Zahn's a prick and refuses to cooperate with others on continuity and consistently behaves as if he's an overriding authority on the post-ROTJ EU, especially sacrosant are his characters, which apparently he thinks he can change as he desires.

I wouldn't exactly call him a prick. He's an arrogant SOB but one can't really blame him for that. Would you really want to cooperate with hacks like Kevin J. Anderson or Vonda McIntyre? The simple fact is they're talentless hacks that massacre characters and create plots that are insults to one's intelligence. I know I'd do every thing possible to keep them away from anything I wrote.

He's cooperated and even collaberated with some of the better EU authors so it's not simple stiff neck syndrome. It's a desire to protect his creations from the hands of idiots.

And the simple fact is, he might not be the authority on post-RotJ continuity but he's done a damn sight better job in than most (I know some people here have a postive hard-on for Troy Denning). Why the hell shouldn't he resent crappy writers following on?

[Illuminatus Primus]

That's a fucking-pathetic-excuse for changing a minor character's name because you're intractible prick.

[Shaidar Haran]

That's a fucking-pathetic-excuse for changing a minor character's name because you're intractible prick.

Agreed on that, if that's what Zahn did. That quote is simply some one's opinion.


However I still think he's got good reason to be intractible about hacks butchering his characters and generally screwing things up badly.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I don't know if Troy's book is going to clear up the Fel brothers issue. We had problems with Chak when Tim brought him in, and wanted him to use an already-named brother, but he felt strongly about this. Sometimes it's decided to let an author have something they're insisting on and try to work it out later, than tell the author no, and have creative flow interrupted. It's a judgment call --

We believe that Chak is actually Davin, but Tim Zahn wanted to call him Chak.

This is not an opinion.

[Shaidar Haran]

I don't know if Troy's book is going to clear up the Fel brothers issue. We had problems with Chak when Tim brought him in, and wanted him to use an already-named brother, but he felt strongly about this. Sometimes it's decided to let an author have something they're insisting on and try to work it out later, than tell the author no, and have creative flow interrupted. It's a judgment call --

We believe that Chak is actually Davin, but Tim Zahn wanted to call him Chak.

This is not an opinion.

It sure looks like opinion to me. The "We believe" preface to that sure doesn't lend itself to a definite statement of fact.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Clearly you are not familiarized with the situation.

Red Sky, Blue Flame, a story by Elaine Cunningham, was written before the first outlines of Survivor's Quest appeared.

Because Zahn decided to flip continuity before him (having nothing to do with his characters at all, just the Chiss and the name and nature of their establishment), RSBF was shoehorned into being post-SQ, because a certain Chiss named Stent was alive in SQ, but died by RSFB.

However, RSFB firmly ties down the number and those alive of the former Baron Soontir Fel's children. The only male child alive during the SQ period and a suitable candidate for service could be Davin Fel, as written of before SQ.

So either, a) Davin Fel never existed, and the Fels were confused about their own family, forgetting about their son, Chak Fel, b) Chak Fel is Davin Fel.

Quite literally, the only continuity saving fix is that Chak or Davin is a nickname, the other the given name for the same person. The continuity editors knew about this, and so did Zahn.

When you're writing in another person's universe, and won't change a minor character's fucking name when the problem has been noticed to avoid continuity flubs, and pass it off as necessary for your "creative flow", you are an asshole, and don't need to be writing in someone else's universe since you can't respect either that fact, or that someone else.

Fuck Zahn.

[Shaidar Haran]

I'm not entirely familiar with the situation, no. I largely stopped caring about the EU years ago. And I'm not debating the point that Zahn created/renamed the Fel sprout.

What I'm not so sure of is whether he's simply doing it to be a prick or not.

[Illuminatus Primus]

It doesn't matter what subjective reasons he had for doing it. I'm saying that a situation like that, and being so disrespectful of the continuity of a universe belonging to someone else you're being permitted to work in ispo facto makes you an asshole.

[Connor MacLeod]

it sounds vageuly like you're just injecting your Anti-Zahn sentimentality into the debate, really.

[Illuminatus Primus]

You don't find it rather dubious what he did? He was told it'd cause problems, and he overrode previous authors' works in a universe not his own, and this is the third time he's arbitrarily messed-up continuity?

[Connor MacLeod]

All it says is that Denning and Zahn had disagreements over an aspect of continuity. It doesn't give anything on motivations for this, or indicate anything about how politely or impolitely it was handled. Insofar as I can tell you're just inferring from this that Zahn is acting like an asshole.

The fact that they indicated that they have to make that sort tof compromise sometimes seems to indicate that it is not an exceptional or unusual occurance.

[Illuminatus Primus]

All it says is that Denning and Zahn had disagreements over an aspect of continuity. It doesn't give anything on motivations for this, or indicate anything about how politely or impolitely it was handled. Insofar as I can tell you're just inferring from this that Zahn is acting like an asshole.

The fact that they indicated that they have to make that sort tof compromise sometimes seems to indicate that it is not an exceptional or unusual occurance.

Apparently you neither read the quote nor the link.

Miss Rostini, the Continuity Editor, does not know whether Troy Denning's book trilogy will fix the continuity flub. He has nothing to do with this.

Miss Rostini noticed and took note of the continuity flub, Zahn cited "creative flow" (yes apparently creative flow will be shut off if a minor character isn't post facto inserted into the continuity, in clear and noted contradiction to a previous author's work).

She did not correct it, and merely allowed the mistake to go to print, and then came up with an ad hoc possible fix after allowing Zahn's noted contradiction to print, because his creative flow couldn't be interrupted.

After the conflicts with Vietch over DE and the one-upism of the HoT, and noting the general contradictory feel of SQ in light of the following NJO, I do not see why I should offer the benefit of the doubt again.

[Lord Poe]

IP, again, all I see is Zahn bashing for the sake of Zahn bashing. And I'll say it again: who gives a heave-ho FUCK about some 10th tier character's name, when FAR WORSE destructiveness has been allowed into the EU, and no fanboys seem to be screaming about?

I'm talking about the character assasinations of Han Luke and Leia in ALL of Kevin J. Anderson's books, pure SHIT such as "Planet of Twilight", "Crystal Star", "The New Rebellion", and the PILE of shit known as the "New Jedi Order" books.

Let's not even mention the "first" duel Luke has with Vader, where he defeats him BEFORE TESB in "Splinter of the Mind's Eye", which EU fanboys insist should be shoehorned into continuity.

Zahn, and a scant few other authors are the ONLY saving grace of the EU. If he wants to take a couple liberties in order to keep him writing SW books, FINE BY ME.

[Crown]

As much as I want to yell at IP for 'Zahn bashing', he really does have a point ... honestly how hard would it have been for the continuity editor to say; Tim your story is great, your plot is involving, the fans are going to like it, but for the sake of continuity, we would like you to either change the character 'Chak' to the name 'Darvin' or to put one fucking line somewhere, anywhere where your character says; my name is Darvin, but friends just call me Chak.

If Tim through a hissy fit at that, then I don't think there is much disguising it.

But as for IP's claim of Tim being a shit when he 'one-uped' continuity in the HoT duology I will repeat this again; it was the only fucking way of rationalising why Luke Skywalker didn't just use his uber wanked Jedi power to fucking solve every problem.

Bringing this point up again, and again, makes you look like an ass. Let. It. Go.


And for Poe, I agree with you on the whole; I would be content reading just Zahn's EU works over anyone elses just for the quality. After all who else in the EU writers club has won a Hugo? But having an arguement over something as stupid as a name is just stupid. It's not exactly going to stop the 'creative juices' if he put that one line after he finished his book.

[Connor MacLeod]

As much as I want to yell at IP for 'Zahn bashing', he really does have a point ... honestly how hard would it have been for the continuity editor to say; Tim your story is great, your plot is involving, the fans are going to like it, but for the sake of continuity, we would like you to either change the character 'Chak' to the name 'Darvin' or to put one fucking line somewhere, anywhere where your character says; my name is Darvin, but friends just call me Chak.

If Tim through a hissy fit at that, then I don't think there is much disguising it.

My point is that based on what is provided, we're not sure really WHY Zahn opposed it, so I'm not really sure how this is proof of him being irrational or anything. Rostini's statement reads as pretty neutral to me, in fact.

[Connor MacLeod]

I'm talking about the character assasinations of Han Luke and Leia in ALL of Kevin J. Anderson's books, pure SHIT such as "Planet of Twilight", "Crystal Star", "The New Rebellion", and the PILE of shit known as the "New Jedi Order" books.

KJA's problem with the Jedi Academy Trilogy is that he's not really writing anything of grreat interest - the Jedi ACademy trrilogy was plodding and boring for the most part - nothing compelling to push it, the characters were not very well-written, the plots and motivations were awkward. Darksaber wasn't the best either, but I like it far more than the JAT (I know some think Madine's death was kinda lame, but so what? A "noble" or "heroic" death is predictable. Allston had some "pointless" deaths in his Wraith squadron trilogy, too.)

Crystal Star, Planet of Twilight and Children of the Jedi (you missed that one, but CoTJ was worse than POT IMHO, but Crystal Star is the worst of the three).

I think you have to lump Stackpole into the bunch as well, since his Rogue Squadron books, while they have some moments (I, Jedi has some interesting parts I think), are still largely annoying.

Alot of the NJO is pretty bad too (Balancec Point, Traitor, Dark Journey, Final Prophecy..) because alot of it is mostly "filler", but there are also some excellent ones (Luceno's books, the Allston duology, Star by Star, Destiny's Way...)

Let's not even mention the "first" duel Luke has with Vader, where he defeats him BEFORE TESB in "Splinter of the Mind's Eye", which EU fanboys insist should be shoehorned into continuity.

Foster's stuff is sort of in the same boat as the Jedi Academy Trilogy. Its not really all that compelling and its larggely bland.

Zahn, and a scant few other authors are the ONLY saving grace of the EU. If he wants to take a couple liberties in order to keep him writing SW books, FINE BY ME.

I do and always will like the Thrawn trilogy, and the HoT duology has its moments.. but have you read Survivor's Quest? I find it rather boring. Zahn has written some good stuff, but I don't automatically expect "great books" from him now, either.

Some of the best books have to be the Han Solo and Lando Calrissian ones, if you ask me. Denning and Allston are my second-favorite.

[Connor MacLeod]

Apparently you neither read the quote nor the link.

Yes I did. Maybe I just missed the invisible sentences saying "Zahn was an arrogant prick about it."

Miss Rostini, the Continuity Editor, does not know whether Troy Denning's book trilogy will fix the continuity flub. He has nothing to do with this.

Granted on this part. I misread Denning's mention in the statement. Doesn't alter anything else you're apparently trying to peddle, though (IE Zahn-bashing.)

Miss Rostini noticed and took note of the continuity flub, Zahn cited "creative flow" (yes apparently creative flow will be shut off if a minor character isn't post facto inserted into the continuity, in clear and noted contradiction to a previous author's work).

That's not what the quote says.

Sometimes it's decided to let an author have something they're insisting on and try to work it out later, than tell the author no, and have creative flow interrupted. It's a judgment call --

For that matter, it doesn't indicate that this "judgement call" applies to Zahn alone. It just says Zahn insisted on the character and they let him have it because THEY thought it might interrupt his (or anyoen else in his position, since it does indicate that other authors have been given this concession.) creative flow, not because he insisted it would. I

n fact, it doesn't even really tell us why Zahn insisted on the character - you simply seem to be inferring one from it based on what you want to see.

She did not correct it, and merely allowed the mistake to go to print, and then came up with an ad hoc possible fix after allowing Zahn's noted contradiction to print, because his creative flow couldn't be interrupted.

Point out to me where in the quote it says Zahn cited "creative flow interruption" as the reason for insisting on his POV being accepted. The quote itself is rather neutral insofar as Zahn's motivations behind his position are concerned, and nothing in the "link" seemed to offer further evidence (And if there was something and I missed it, do be so kind as to post it.)

After the conflicts with Vietch over DE and the one-upism of the HoT, and noting the general contradictory feel of SQ in light of the following NJO, I do not see why I should offer the benefit of the doubt again.

Because insofar as I can tell, you're carrying a grudge and looking for any excuse to justify it. Judging by what others are saying, this is not the first time either.

Anyhow, your little Anti-Zahn rant has nothing really to do with the "continuity" discussion, so why is it even mentioned? The part about making concessions to an author to preserve "creative flow" could have been mentioned without attacking Zahn, and nothign would have been lost.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Yes I did. Maybe I just missed the invisible sentences saying "Zahn was an arrogant prick about it."

That's the conclusion I reach. If something as trivial as a minor character name is pointed out, and your best reason for refusing to alter the first name and work in-line with continuity is "creative flow," I think you're an asshole. My previous opinions of Zahn are irrelvent. I'm saying there's basically no excuse for this cavalier attitude about continuity, particularly among authors and continuity editors, and especially when the problem could be so easily dealt with.

If you disagree, that's nice.

Doesn't alter anything else you're apparently trying to peddle, though (IE Zahn-bashing.)

I don't care whether you think I have agendas or what not. That's an appeal to motive, and totally irrelevent. The issue at hand is whether it is an asshole thing to do to not deal with continuity flubs by to dealing with a name when it is pointed out to you, when you're working in someone else's universe and dealing in the framework of other authors' works.

I think that kind of attitude sets a bad precedent and is an alarming attitude at Lucas Licensing and among SW authors. Why it caught my attention, the other reasons Zahn may be an asshole, etc. are irrelevent. My personal opinion of Zahn is irrelevent.

I ask again, do you think that kind of conduct when a continuity editor notices a continuity flub is positive, or are you going to wax poetic about my anti-Zahn attitude. Your personal offence about that or lack thereof will be noted on my invisible typewriter, okeedokee?

That's not what the quote says.

Ok....

For that matter, it doesn't indicate that this "judgement call" applies to Zahn alone. It just says Zahn insisted on the character and they let him have it because THEY thought it might interrupt his (or anyoen else in his position, since it does indicate that other authors have been given this concession.) creative flow, not because he insisted it would.

Oh, that changes everything! Zahn insisted on not changing the name of a minor character, and Lucasfilm Licensing decided to capitulate because changing the name "Chak" would've "interrupted" his "creative flow."

That hardly makes a difference. Zahn still insisted on a noted continuity flaw, and LL came up with the weak excuse for letting him do it. How does that change the fact Zahn insisted on retaining the flaw, which is why I said he was being a prick?

The fact that Zahn insisted, gave no reason, and now it is implied by Lucas Licensing they'd do the same "favor" for other authors is not a vindication of Zahn's behavior. All it does is make LL look worse.

In fact, it doesn't even really tell us why Zahn insisted on the character - you simply seem to be inferring one from it based on what you want to see.

I don't understand what logic makes you think that since Zahn did insist on retaining a noted continuity flaw, and LL came up with the excuse instead makes it any worse that he refused to correct a mistake in his work the contradicted previous authors' work.

Basically, my point is simple and concise: Zahn wrote SQ after Cunningham wrote RSBF, and therefore, Zahn should've fixed his mistake, since already enshrined SW literature was in contradiction to his not-yet-published work. He refused to, and I think that is an asshole thing to do, and isn't healthy for the SW EU.

You basically replied: "Well you don't like Zahn, and you're calling Zahn bad names, and Lucasfilm Licensing made up the "creative flow" excuse, NOT Zahn! What's wrong with you?"

I say: So what? SQ followed RSBF, and therefore the burden's on Zahn to fit in prior continuity, regardless if he didn't like it. Not only did he not, but this continuity mistake was actually noticed, and he didn't fix it. Don't you think that's out of line?

The point about my prior opinion of Zahn is an appeal to motive. Regardless if I already thought Zahn was an asshole, how is that a rebuttal of this example of Zahn being an asshole? It isn't.

The "creative flow" remark is conceded, but to attack it as if suddenly that exonerates Zahn for causing continuity flubs with previously published material after being alerted to this fact is nitpicking. Yes, I misstated. But how does that change the fact that Zahn couldn't be bothered to make a simple change to place his work in frame with previously published and canonical work?

Point out to me where in the quote it says Zahn cited "creative flow interruption" as the reason for insisting on his POV being accepted. The quote itself is rather neutral insofar as Zahn's motivations behind his position are concerned, and nothing in the "link" seemed to offer further evidence (And if there was something and I missed it, do be so kind as to post it.)

His motivations are irrelevent. SQ followed RSBF, and therefore Zahn should fix noted continuity flubs. He did not. I find that an asshole course of action. I concede that the quote did not speak of Zahn's motivations, only LL's excuse thereof.

Still, how does this affect my main point? You're nitpicking and appealing to motive, and not addressing the central idea. Is Zahn a prick (or if those words are too strong, choose some weaker ones for yourself) for not correcting his mistakes with previously published material, even when they were pointed out.

Because insofar as I can tell, you're carrying a grudge and looking for any excuse to justify it. Judging by what others are saying, this is not the first time either.

Appeals to Motive. All I've ever seen anyone say or post anything to contradict the fact that Dark Empire was in the works before Heir to the Empire, and Zahn simply refused to cooperate with Vietch (hence the awkwardness of DE's "Rebel Alliance," Imperial-held Coruscant, Imperials in the Core, no Mara or Karrde, and Thrawn looking irrelevent in light ot Palpatine's return). Dark Empire was supposed to be around the time of where the X-Wing books now are located chronologically, and had to be shoe-horned into being after TTT because Zahn wouldn't cooperate (which I find rather presumptious--he's being offered the oppurtunity to pen work in SW, and should accede to earlier plans within that universe out of courtesy and helpfulness). That was Zahn's first attempt to manipulate continuity as he saw fit (he still tried to discount DE in VotF, too). So I do not see this as a simple mistake or a careless error or misunderstanding.

Quite frankly, no other author has done either of these kind of things, so your comment that somehow because LL would offer the same excuses for another author who behaved similarly, it somehow exonerates the fact that Zahn did behave as such, and it is in poor taste is beyond my comprehension.

Anyhow, your little Anti-Zahn rant has nothing really to do with the "continuity" discussion, so why is it even mentioned? The part about making concessions to an author to preserve "creative flow" could have been mentioned without attacking Zahn, and nothign would have been lost.

Blah blah blah.

First I just posted the TFN link, which leads to a thread titled "LFL's new "let the mistakes go directly to print" policy..."

Spanky then thought I should summarize, so I did summarize the main points discussed:

I don't know if Troy's book is going to clear up the Fel brothers issue. We had problems with Chak when Tim brought him in, and wanted him to use an already-named brother, but he felt strongly about this. Sometimes it's decided to let an author have something they're insisting on and try to work it out later, than tell the author no, and have creative flow interrupted. It's a judgment call --

We believe that Chak is actually Davin, but Tim Zahn wanted to call him Chak.

And those who claim I'm off my mark when I claim Tim Zahn's a prick and refuses to cooperate with others on continuity and consistently behaves as if he's an overriding authority on the post-ROTJ EU, especially sacrosant are his characters, which apparently he thinks he can change as he desires.

Discrepencies...tend to favor the more recent source...Most recently published (or in some cases, yet-to-be-published.) We definitely wouldn't want to ignore outright anything said previously and we try to reconcilliate any apparent discrepancies whenever possible

Apparently in continuity fixes, newer sources now officially are favored (translation for those using dicto simpliciter and wanting to say that the newer sources always trumps the earlier one; the newer one is favored, or more authoritive, but the old one doesn't vanish and can't be waved off).

Now I'm sorry that your sensibilities were offended by me noting one of the topics (Zahn screwing continuity) and noting that this supported my assertion in the past that Zahn only cares for continuity which supports his sensibilities, making him rather selfish and in my opinion, an asshole.

Of course the standard reponse to my giving an example is "how dare you give examples, clearly you have an agenda blah blah blah."

Apparently many in this thread were too obtuse to realize that I posted that because I am awknowledging my prior assertions, and am using a recent point to give an example of my opinions? How does telling me that and whining about it in anyway refute the actual example. Christ, guys, this isn't hard.

But as for IP's claim of Tim being a shit when he 'one-uped' continuity in the HoT duology I will repeat this again; it was the only fucking way of rationalising why Luke Skywalker didn't just use his uber wanked Jedi power to fucking solve every problem.

Bringing this point up again, and again, makes you look like an ass. Let. It. Go.

Ah yes, contradicting others' work regarding Mara Jade, and that idiotic pot-shot at Dark Empire again was soo necessary to correct stupid writing about Luke Skywalker, let me tell you.

Praytell, if Zahn's agenda was to correct bizarre contradictions and mischaracterizations, why didn't Leia and Han get a similar treatment? What about Pelleaon explaining his consortment with the warlords that many take KJA to task on? Why didn't he explain why, all of a sudden, the diminished Empire was out on the Outer Rim again, rather than in the Core, when we'd last heard of it (in the ultimate irony, it was KJA who'd fix this flub in The Essential Chronology). What about explaining where Karrde and Mara were during Dark Empire? Ad nauseum.

No, I think that Zahn his own picture of Mara and Luke, and had to "repossess" their characters specifically after handling by other authors for years. I think that was more of an agenda than overall "fixing" the Bantam-line fuck-ups, because of the rather large number aforementioned and other omissions. Even with his own characters and pets, like Pelleaon and the Imperial Remnant.

IP, again, all I see is Zahn bashing for the sake of Zahn bashing. And I'll say it again: who gives a heave-ho FUCK about some 10th tier character's name, when FAR WORSE destructiveness has been allowed into the EU, and no fanboys seem to be screaming about?

What the hell are you talking about? KJA is a fucking joke almost universally throughout the EU fandom, and especially here. What I've always been amazed by is the neglect Zahn's totally fucking stupid things have been ignored merely because other authors were worse writers (which in no way contradicts the point; I'd never defend KJA, but he's irrelevent regarding Zahn's offenses against continuity and common sense, which should be addressed, regardless of his superior prowess as an author).

I'm talking about the character assasinations of Han Luke and Leia in ALL of Kevin J. Anderson's books, pure SHIT such as "Planet of Twilight", "Crystal Star", "The New Rebellion", and the PILE of shit known as the "New Jedi Order" books.

And praytell, what is Sue Rostini supposed to do about that? Before we had the small security of her telling people "hey, don't arbitrarily change the characters' fucking identities."

What are the continuity editors supposed to do about poor writing, as a general thing? Is Sue going to read a draft and say "This is fucking garbage. You're gone"? That's not going to happen. That can only be fixed by trying to raise EU fan awareness and trying to change attitudes at the Ranch about quality control and where the EU's direction is going. When it comes to changing the specific attitudes of the in-place continuity editors, letting a slop like this slide because an author said so is kind of alarming. Sorry if you disagree.

Let's not even mention the "first" duel Luke has with Vader, where he defeats him BEFORE TESB in "Splinter of the Mind's Eye", which EU fanboys insist should be shoehorned into continuity.

Fucking Valiento, so what? I'm sorry if he rained on your parade, but that hardly changes the fact that Leland Chee has a different perspective, and that's all we need to worry about. My point is other fuck-ups do not exonerate cavalier continuity editing attitudes.

Zahn, and a scant few other authors are the ONLY saving grace of the EU. If he wants to take a couple liberties in order to keep him writing SW books, FINE BY ME.

Personally, I'd rather do without stupid garbage like the Blue Man who can read minds through art with 10,000 clone vats and 200 Dreadnoughts suddenly flopping the balance of power in an ancient galactic civilization which built two Death Stars in less than a decade. Though Zahn's GFFA only takes up one quadrant of the galactic disk, and apparently has shit for navigation, and it's 25 k year civilization had the progressive outlook of Quakers. A quarter of the galaxy. Come on! And worse, that contradicts his previous books.

He's better, but he's not great, and he has room for attitude and common sense improvement. Bringing up KJA is about as relevent as bringing up Clinton in a debate about Bush. A complete red herring. Stick to the point, that's all I'm asking.

And furthermore, this wouldn't have become about Zahn if that wasn't what people wanted to discuss. People immediately nitpicked and bitched about me shooting their pet sacred cow, derailing all discussion to my ancillary point.

Now if anyone would like to discuss the "newer sources are more authoritative" update to policy, I'd love to.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

That's a fucking-pathetic-excuse for changing a minor character's name because you're intractible prick.

Maybe Zahn just wanted a Fel character whose story arc he could control. If it's a Fel used by everyone in the EU, you'll have a hard time keeping any consistency, let alone pulling out any tricky back-story with any believability.

It would be, at best, as acceptable as Luke marrying Mara Jade despite numerous romance-of-the-week plotlines and a complete lack of interest in her for trilogies at a time. At worst it could be as out-of-nowhere as a 7/9-Chakotay romance that lasted for decades despite the fact that they currently don't give a damn about each other.