The Infinite Empire?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-03-17 12:17am

What's the deal with the Rakatan Infinite Empire?

Supposedly containing just 500 planets with a population of 10 billion Rakata and a trillion slaves scattered over the galaxy at its height, it accomplished some powerful abilities.

It constructed the Star Forge; an enormous space station powered by the Dark Side of the Force and containing huge automated shipyards and factories orbiting a star.

Its worlds are located throughout the galaxy; Dantooine is located outside the plane of the galactic disk (ref. The Sith War), Korriban, which should be located near the edge of the disk in the Outer Rim, Tattooine which is located thousands of light-years away also in the Outer Rim, and their homeworld, which is apparently near the Deep Core.

The stated size suggests a much smaller scale than suggested by the immense size and grandeur of the Star Forge, and its worlds are too spread out to be part of a local empire.

So what is the deal?

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-03-17 12:46am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:...The stated size suggests a much smaller scale than suggested by the immense size and grandeur of the Star Forge, and its worlds are too spread out to be part of a local empire.

So what is the deal?

You mean "why's it called the 'Infinite Empire'?" Well, perhaps the title was an arrogant one as opposed to an "accurate" one. They conquer a few worlds, colonise a hundred or so planets, and eventually someone is going to say "Hey, we kick arse." At which point they promptly lose their so-called 'infinite' empire. I suppose the writers of KotOR wanted the Rakata to be victims of their own folly. Hubris.

Also, perhaps the majority of their construction efforts went into building the Starforge, and if they hadn't they might have colonised more worlds or something. The SF is a pretty large space station.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-03-17 12:52am

I don't care about semantics. Why is it huge, powerful, have really impressive proofs-of-industrial-scale, and have worlds across the area of the galaxy if it is so small? Why would it have 500 worlds, with some on the very edge, and others in the Core?

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-03-17 01:28am

Could be 500 primarily Rakata populated worlds, and they don't even count slaves as being important enough to mention. It could also be that the Star Maps discovered were at the outposts at the farthest reaches of where they explored, and that's the only reason they mostly survived the Rakata's self-destruction.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-03-17 01:33am

consequences wrote:Could be 500 primarily Rakata populated worlds,

With only 10 billion Rakata total?

consequences wrote:and they don't even count slaves as being important enough to mention.

What are you saying? It states they had a trillion slaves.

consequences wrote:It could also be that the Star Maps discovered were at the outposts at the farthest reaches of where they explored, and that's the only reason they mostly survived the Rakata's self-destruction.

An empire with its outermost borders at the Core, Dantooine, Korriban, and Tatooine should contain a lot more than 500 worlds. Why so dispersed?

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2004-03-17 01:57am

Heres a hint:

KOTOR sucked.

In-universe answer:

They were a really small people, with few women, and their reproduction rate was very low. That and i assume this is prior to the creation of hyperdrives, so it maight've taken eons to build such an empire.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-03-17 02:03am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:With only 10 billion Rakata total?

Draconian poulation control? Highly advanced droid technology? With that many force-users, who wants more competition?

What are you saying? It states they had a trillion slaves.

They may have gratuitously exterminated certain species, rather than enslave them. They may have felt so superior, that they felt that any life below a certain level was unworthy of the title slave, being classified as pets, or possibly domesticated food animals. Their droid tech may have been good enough that they felt that enslaving biologicals would mostly be a waste of time. The writers might suffer from the usual EU minimalism.

consequences wrote:It could also be that the Star Maps discovered were at the outposts at the farthest reaches of where they explored, and that's the only reason they mostly survived the Rakata's self-destruction.
An empire with its outermost borders at the Core, Dantooine, Korriban, and Tatooine should contain a lot more than 500 worlds. Why so dispersed?

With the Star Forge, they may have felt it unnecessary to establish a physical presence on more than a few worlds. They may have viewed territory more as a matter of total space encompassed, rather than how many places you have an overwhelming presence.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-03-17 02:10am

I made a similar post to this. But please, carry on.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2004-03-17 02:15am

The StarForge...

I only got so far in to that game, i literally stopped playing very soon, it was poorly done. Could someone clue me in on the StarForge, i didnt get that far...

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-03-17 03:29am

18-Till-I-Die wrote:The StarForge...

I only got so far in to that game, i literally stopped playing very soon, it was poorly done. Could someone clue me in on the StarForge, i didnt get that far...

Spoiler, whoop-de freaking-do, its not like the stategy guide doesn't give this info, spoiler!

Big automated Weapons factory, draws energy, and probably matter from a local star, adds Dark-side energy, and produces lots of neat toys. The game really wasn't that bad, but I'm mostly saying that because I enjoyed the opportunity to be indescribably evil. Although D20 is still the alltime worst system to try to shoe-horn SW into(okay, got that bit of venom out of my system, I'm okay now).

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2004-03-17 05:29am

consequences wrote:Big automated Weapons factory, draws energy, and probably matter from a local star, adds Dark-side energy, and produces lots of neat toys. The game really wasn't that bad, but I'm mostly saying that because I enjoyed the opportunity to be indescribably evil. Although D20 is still the alltime worst system to try to shoe-horn SW into(okay, got that bit of venom out of my system, I'm okay now).

*sigh* blah blah blah dark side blah. I'm glad I never played KOTOR now; the Dark Troopers were lame enough without Dark Blasters and Dark Penlights. Glerh.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-03-17 05:37am

The toys it makes aren't darkside, its mainly an excuse to make the Star Forge sound cooler, and provide a reason for why the 'Infinite Empire' isn't still around.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-03-17 06:35am

Stark wrote:
*sigh* blah blah blah dark side blah. I'm glad I never played KOTOR now; the Dark Troopers were lame enough without Dark Blasters and Dark Penlights. Glerh.

You don't like Dark Troopers? Why not?

The origins of the Star Forge are entirely unobtrusive in the game and only brought up near the very end. It has no bearing on the game's kickass plot.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-03-17 08:35am

Stark wrote:
consequences wrote:Big automated Weapons factory, draws energy, and probably matter from a local star, adds Dark-side energy, and produces lots of neat toys. The game really wasn't that bad, but I'm mostly saying that because I enjoyed the opportunity to be indescribably evil. Although D20 is still the alltime worst system to try to shoe-horn SW into(okay, got that bit of venom out of my system, I'm okay now).
*sigh* blah blah blah dark side blah. I'm glad I never played KOTOR now; the Dark Troopers were lame enough without Dark Blasters and Dark Penlights. Glerh.

Actually a very poor outlook given that for 90% of the RPG you ideas of the Starforge is that's it's either a Sith Weapon or Base.

In fact by the time you realize what it is...most the game is done and really the Starforge is a small element of background.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2004-03-17 01:37pm

Maybe the bulk of their industrial and military infrastructure is concentrated close to their homeworld and those worlds spread over the galaxy they occupy are points for the marching-up and rallying of forces if needed and from where they controlled the surrounding sectors from.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-03-18 09:59pm

Yes, but common sense logistical arguments argue against 500 worlds dispersed over thousands of light-years. Its just not rational, unless they have really slow drives and those were just distant outposts.

They didn't have hyperdrive.

EDIT: Got a shot of the Rakatan Empire from the in-game starmap. Anyone able to host for me?

EDIT 2: According to my friend, their FTL drive system relied on the Force....perhaps it could travel very quickly to Force nexi like Korriban, Yavin, etc. which seem to attract Force users but not elsewhere?

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2004-03-19 06:06am

I'm playing through for my second time now, but I'm not at the Unknown World yet. Can anyone refresh my memory on what timeframe the Infinite Empire was in? It was pre-Republic, right?

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2004-03-19 06:41am

Robert Treder wrote:I'm playing through for my second time now, but I'm not at the Unknown World yet. Can anyone refresh my memory on what timeframe the Infinite Empire was in? It was pre-Republic, right?

5,000 years pre-Republic, IIRC.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2004-03-19 08:26am

Pre-TPM or Pre-Republic?

And if Pre-Republic, why is the game called Knights of the OLD REPUBLIC? (I admit, i don´t know much about this game)

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-03-19 08:51am

FTeik wrote:Pre-TPM or Pre-Republic?

And if Pre-Republic, why is the game called Knights of the OLD REPUBLIC? (I admit, i don´t know much about this game)

The game takes place in the time of the Old Republic...but the new mysterio race existed at LEAST 5,000 years prior to the Republic.

DeadM · Post by **DeadM** » 2004-03-19 11:57am

Illuminatus Primus wrote: EDIT: Got a shot of the Rakatan Empire from the in-game starmap. Anyone able to host for me?

Yeah, just send it to deadmeat.at.haxzor.dk (just replace .at. with @)

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2004-03-19 03:58pm

Could the Infinite Empire be the Mystery Race who gave the humans hyperdrive? I know that one of the load-screen factoids mentions the now-extinct hyperdrive-giving race.

Unless the game specifically says they didn't have hyperdrive, they could have been the ones who had it, thus solving how they got across the galaxy. Why they only chose those few worlds is still a problem. Perhaps those worlds met some kind of religious criteria for them, and they took them above other suitable worlds. When in doubt, religion can always explain wacko behavior.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2004-03-19 06:13pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:EDIT: Got a shot of the Rakatan Empire from the in-game starmap. Anyone able to host for me?

yt300000 (at) hotmail.com

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-03-19 06:32pm

One of the load screens in KOTOR mentions that new hyperdrive routes are extremely perilous to chart and that only with hyperspace routes can one traverse to different systems. Perhaps the Infinite Empire simply only knew of a relative handful of hyperspace routes, and they didn't have the means to chart new ones.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-03-19 06:33pm

The Rakatan Infinite Empire lasted until approximately 29,000 BBY, or 4,000 years the formation of Jedi Order and the subsequent schism. Several thousand years before Xim the Despot's wars with the Hutts and before the following Unification Wars which formed the galactic-spanning Republic.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:They didn't have hyperdrive.

(emphases mine)

I see reading comprehension is still premium at SD.net.

Their drive system was based on the Force; like much of their technology and the drives of the Aing Tii monks. Perhaps they could only travel very short distances to normal worlds, but their drives were drawn to the Force nexi across the galaxy with ease?

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