StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I'm a newbie and I searched the forums, but couldn't find a similar topic, so here we go.

One thing that I found somewhat disturbing in AOTC is the Techno Union starships (Hardcell-class), in particular their propulsion systems that, according to the Official Site, relies on conventional rocket propulsion to conquer the planet's escape velocity. It surprises me a bit that the more vocal trekkers on the Net haven't picked that up yet as evidence that SW propulsion technology is inferior to ST (which, overall, of course it isn't). My thought was a preemptive strike against the trekkers would be the best course of action. There are also some things that must be sorted out. It seems a bit difficult to rationalize the use of rocket propulsion as perhaps it would be more difficult to enter hangars, the fuel consumption would be higher and ineffective, depending on the fuel of course, but we do know that the fuel tanks are big. According to the Official Site, the Hardcell class is supposed to be 640 feet (195 meters) in length, so it would be easy to deduce the size of the fuel tanks. And, of course, this mode of propulsion would make it very difficult to reach higher velocity, as it is dependent on the laws of relativity.

We don't know what kind of fuel they are using, or even if they work like our chemical rockets. And they won't be using rockets to go anywhere far anyway; that's what the hyperdrive is for. If they have one, that is. Isn't that ship some kind of lander or something? Maybe it's just used to get people/ships/stuff into orbit?

The trekkies would have a hard time trying to pass this bit of information as proof that SW tech is inferior, anyhow. We have seen, on numerous occasions, that most ships do not use rockets to get into space (like the Millenium Falcon and those Trade Federation ships in AotC).

Can you provide a direct quote from the official site which mentions the Hardcell's "conventional rocket propulsion"?

Techno Union: Behind the Scenes

This is the closest thing I found, but the site search function was offline, so it's probably the wrong thing.

The Techno Union starships seen in Episode II are very retro in their design, harkening back to rocket ship concepts from pulp-era science fiction stories.

Concepts...and look.

Does not mean it has much similarities beyond that.

And this belongs in PSW.

I'm sorry. It seems as if my memory has slipped somewhat. I thought that I had read it on the official site, when it actually came from the Completly Unofficial Star Wars Encyclopedia which states:

Rather than using repulsors, the Hardcell-class transport relied on the sheer power of flame to reach orbit. The Hardcell-class transport took off and landed vertically, with the engine section resting on the ground. Once in space, these ships were equipped with powerful Class 1 hyperdrives to propel them across the galaxy.

Thus it seems that this is deduced by the onscreen visuals, which doesn't support that notion completly. BTW, I never believed that these ships used anything else besides hyperdrive for its FTL travel, as one post implied.

The site is hosted by TheForce.net, which I visit frequently.

If the information comes from nothing but a Completely Unofficial encyclopedia, then it has little worth. The author probably made a false assumption as to how the ships function, it isin't anything new with that site.

Mange the Swede wrote:I'm a newbie and I searched the forums, but couldn't find a similar topic, so here we go.

One thing that I found somewhat disturbing in AOTC is the Techno Union starships (Hardcell-class), in particular their propulsion systems that, according to the Official Site, relies on conventional rocket propulsion to conquer the planet's escape velocity. It surprises me a bit that the more vocal trekkers on the Net haven't picked that up yet as evidence that SW propulsion technology is inferior to ST (which, overall, of course it isn't). My thought was a preemptive strike against the trekkers would be the best course of action. There are also some things that must be sorted out. It seems a bit difficult to rationalize the use of rocket propulsion as perhaps it would be more difficult to enter hangars,

Actually, the big concern is the fact that you have stuff being ejected at relativistic velocities in the atmosphere of a planet. It probably would be quicker then using repulsors to get in and out like most ships (who then turn on the ion engines outside of repulsor range; 7 planetary diameters IIRC), but it would mess up the world like no ones business.

the fuel consumption would be higher and ineffective, depending on the fuel of course, but we do know that the fuel tanks are big.

No more so then conventional space flight. Just reconfigure the shields for a more aerodynamic shape like AOTC ICS suggests is possible.

According to the Official Site, the Hardcell class is supposed to be 640 feet (195 meters) in length, so it would be easy to deduce the size of the fuel tanks.

Yes, but without knowing the density of the fuel it isn't much good.

And, of course, this mode of propulsion would make it very difficult to reach higher velocity, as it is dependent on the laws of relativity.

All kinds of spaceflight are. Fact is they get there anyways.

Mange the Swede wrote:I'm sorry. It seems as if my memory has slipped somewhat. I thought that I had read it on the official site, when it actually came from the Completly Unofficial Star Wars Encyclopedia which states:

Rather than using repulsors, the Hardcell-class transport relied on the sheer power of flame to reach orbit. The Hardcell-class transport took off and landed vertically, with the engine section resting on the ground. Once in space, these ships were equipped with powerful Class 1 hyperdrives to propel them across the galaxy.

Thus it seems that this is deduced by the onscreen visuals, which doesn't support that notion completly. BTW, I never believed that these ships used anything else besides hyperdrive for its FTL travel, as one post implied.

The site is hosted by TheForce.net, which I visit frequently.

You should stop before they infect you with their stupidity.

God dammit, once again the peole of TFN show that they are using my oxygen without asking permission. Yes morons, despite the numerous statments and what we observe onscreen showing that its not flame but ions and subatomic particles leaving at nearly C, the Hardcell uses good old chemical combustion for spaceflight.

I want to smack them all upside the head with a 2x4.

To their credit, the EGtVV says that there are planets on which repulsorlifts perform poorly due to gravitic or electromagnetic irregularities.

Maybe the Techno Union's HQed on such a world; maybe the primary race of the TU has such a world as a homeworld.

Vohu Manah wrote:Techno Union: Behind the Scenes
This is the closest thing I found, but the site search function was offline, so it's probably the wrong thing.

No, that was all that I could find using the search engine, also. I suspect what happened is that somebody took the "harkening back to rocket ship concepts from pulp-era science fiction stories" quote and misinterpreted into the ship being a literal "rocket ship".

Ender wrote:

Mange the Swede wrote:I'm sorry. It seems as if my memory has slipped somewhat. I thought that I had read it on the official site, when it actually came from the Completly Unofficial Star Wars Encyclopedia which states:

Rather than using repulsors, the Hardcell-class transport relied on the sheer power of flame to reach orbit. The Hardcell-class transport took off and landed vertically, with the engine section resting on the ground. Once in space, these ships were equipped with powerful Class 1 hyperdrives to propel them across the galaxy.

Thus it seems that this is deduced by the onscreen visuals, which doesn't support that notion completly. BTW, I never believed that these ships used anything else besides hyperdrive for its FTL travel, as one post implied.

The site is hosted by TheForce.net, which I visit frequently.

You should stop before they infect you with their stupidity.

God dammit, once again the peole of TFN show that they are using my oxygen without asking permission. Yes morons, despite the numerous statments and what we observe onscreen showing that its not flame but ions and subatomic particles leaving at nearly C, the Hardcell uses good old chemical combustion for spaceflight.

I want to smack them all upside the head with a 2x4.

That was the funniest thing I've read for a long time, a long time (an almost quote from Obi-Wan). Perhaps you're right, I should stay away from TFN now that they even started playing mind-tricks on me

Illuminatus Primus wrote:To their credit, the EGtVV says that there are planets on which repulsorlifts perform poorly due to gravitic or electromagnetic irregularities.

Maybe the Techno Union's HQed on such a world; maybe the primary race of the TU has such a world as a homeworld.

The fact that they use ion engines in atmosphere I have no problem with, its that it must be a chemical combustion engine that galls me.

I don't think the "power of flame" is enough to go on a long-winded condemnation of people thinking the power of combustion engines is powering the ships.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I don't think the "power of flame" is enough to go on a long-winded condemnation of people thinking the power of combustion engines is powering the ships.

What makes you think that is my only reason for loathing TFN?

Rather than using repulsors, the Hardcell-class transport relied on the sheer power of flame to reach orbit. The Hardcell-class transport took off and landed vertically, with the engine section resting on the ground. Once in space, these ships were equipped with powerful Class 1 hyperdrives to propel them across the galaxy.

Flames does not necessarily mean chemical rocket propulsion. It could be a fusion drive.

Ender wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I don't think the "power of flame" is enough to go on a long-winded condemnation of people thinking the power of combustion engines is powering the ships.

What makes you think that is my only reason for loathing TFN?

In that case, go right ahead.

Look what Lit Forum regular had to say about them in my sig.