Church of the Force

Enola Straight · Post by **Enola Straight** » 2004-04-14 12:33am

It can be said that the Jedi are a religeous order.

Indeed, in SW:ANH dosen't some Imperial Higher-up sarcastically berate Vader for "his sad devotion to that old religeon", or words to that effect?

Anyway...

Since "May the Force be with you" is a phrase bandied about by non-Force-sensitives, one could infer that the religeon is also open to worshipers who are not Jedi per se.

Is there a Force religeon practiced by the average galactic inhabitant, or is it strictly a Force-sensitive club?

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-04-14 12:47am

IIRC, Mon Elphant started a cult worshipping the Force in an EU story.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-04-14 01:06am

Wasn't that Ephant Mon.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-04-14 01:12am

Yes, it was.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-04-14 01:29am

Whatev.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-04-14 01:56am

If the followers are Force-blind, I don't see how it could add up to more than just casual reverence for life itself. After all, only Jedi run into problems if they become "bad". And Darkside worshipers can't do much without Force attunement. I'd say Jedi/Sith is much more of a technique with a guiding philosophy than it is a religion.

jenat-lai · Post by **jenat-lai** » 2004-04-14 02:00am

One of my girl's nicknames is Ephant.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-04-14 03:09am

jenat-lai wrote:One of my girl's nicknames is Ephant.

Hehe

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2004-04-14 04:40am

What's this about a religious elephant?

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-04-14 04:55pm

Don't worry the Hindus have you beat by at least a few centuries, ever hear of Ganesh? ; )

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-04-14 05:44pm

The Force itself (not midichlorians) can be manipulated and sensed by technology, so it exists empirically and measurably.

I don't know if one can call it a religion apart from its philosophies.

That said, Grand Vizier Sate Pestage created the Church of the Dark Side of the Force headed by Supreme Prophet Kadaan of the the Prophets of the Dark Side. One of the thirteen Grand Admirals was a fanatical devotee of the Church.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-04-14 07:08pm

The Jedi religion isn't based on faith that the Force exists, per se (after all we have nature religions in real life, and nobody doubts that nature requires faith to acknowledge its existence), rather what CONDUCT people are supposed to have with regards to the Force.

The same way with the Sith. Their religions say "do this" or "do that" and these teachings are matters of morality and ethics, not rationally provable or testable things.

Force sensitives don't all agree on HOW to use the Force. Though we all know that some people consider the Force to be "fake" (like Han Solo and that one Imperial official in ANH). I guess sort of like how some people say that Global Warming is fake today or who deny that evolution is factual.

That's my take on it, anyhow.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-04-14 07:12pm

Well the Empire probably introduced pseudoscience, historical revisionism, propoganda, and outright lies to deny its existance to the new generation.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-04-15 05:02am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Well the Empire probably introduced pseudoscience, historical revisionism, propoganda, and outright lies to deny its existance to the new generation.

The Jedi in the Galactic Republic were also not extremely visible to the general populace. They only numbered a few thousands, millions at most when including secretarial staff, agricultural corps etc etc etc.

Since their capabilities were capable of being replicated by technology or glitterstim, the existence of the Force itself may easily be called into doubt.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-04-15 05:09pm

Its not the Jedi which are relevent. Technological sensors and devices can interact with the Force.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-04-15 05:48pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Its not the Jedi which are relevent. Technological sensors and devices can interact with the Force.

Technological sensors now can detect a faint magnetic field around the body. New Age whackos have thus claimed that the soul exists, based on that.

The reverse may apply to the Galactic Empire. Despite empirical evidence of the presence of the Force, denial that the Force is nothing more than an weird energy field may have implanted its hold on the general populace, especially since people who are capable of manipulating the Force itself are rare.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-04-15 05:53pm

False analogy. It'd be akin to claiming the electromagnetic force did not exist.

I think its more interesting that way anyway. There are many thematic similarities between the Empire and Nineteen Eighty-Four's Oceania.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-04-15 05:57pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:False analogy. It'd be akin to claiming the electromagnetic force did not exist.

I think its more interesting that way anyway. There are many thematic similarities between the Empire and Nineteen Eighty-Four's Oceania.

If we are only able to detect the presence of EM forces, without being able to manipulate it, toss in a propangda campaign about how its just another "force" as opposed to electricity and magnetism being part of each other, we get what might have happened to the Force in SW.

The Force is only verifiable in its presence. There is no known scientific use, no known scientific data or theorems, no known scientific links. Any such data would had been exclusively held by the Jedi, which had been exterminated.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-04-17 05:11pm

Like I said, the Force exists (despite a few naysayers who are either ignorant or stuborn luddites I guess), but what these groups believe ABOUT the Force is their religion.

Who can prove that the Dark Side is "evil" or that the Light Side is really "better" or that the Jedi Order should server people, etc.

Those are moral value judgements, the realm of religion and philosophy, not provable scientific facts.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-18 05:48am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:One of the thirteen Grand Admirals was a fanatical devotee of the Church.

Thought there were twelve Grand Admirals.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2004-04-18 06:53am

So this force manipulating technology, maybe this is why General Grevious isn't torn to pieces by the force powers of that Jedi Council member with a Cone Head.

And while the Force itself might not be a religion or whatever, people can form religions worshipping the Force. Like how indians worship holy cows and bathe in their urine.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2004-04-18 04:42pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:One of the thirteen Grand Admirals was a fanatical devotee of the Church.
Thought there were twelve Grand Admirals.

Officially, there was a maximum of twelve, but Thrawn was secretly the thirteenth. When Zaarin reached his timely end, Thrawn was officially promoted to Grand Admiral, to fill in the traitorous bastard's slot.