Luke never heard of Vader before??

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

The first time Obi-Wan told Luke about Darth Vader in ANH, it seems that Luke never heard about him before, and had no interest on him at all.

LUKE: How did my father die?

BEN: A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he
turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi
Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all
but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force.

LUKE: The Force?

Now, Vader is the Emperor's right-hand man, an important figure in the Empire. But the way Obi-Wan explained, and Luke's response, it seems that Luke was never heard of Vader before.

I always wonder why Luke's response is not like this one:

LUKE: Vader? You mean THAT Darth Vader? He is the one who killed my father?

Okay, one would say that Luke is just a farmboy from some backwater planet, but I guess even if a teenage redneck from some backwater village is being told that Al Gore killed his father, his reaction would not be much different.

REDNECK KID: Al Gore? You mean THAT Al Gore? He is the one who killed my father?

So how can we rationalize Luke's ignorance??

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I didn't get that impression at all. You're interpreting the dialogue wrong based on hindsight.

The fact that Luke doesn't even ASK about Vader destroys your issue.

[CJvR]

To the viewer, rebells and the inner circles of the Imperial goverment and military Vader was a huge figure but how well known would he be to the average hillbilly living on the fringes of the empire? How many here know the name of their chief of Police or some other "public" figure that isn't particulary public? Troublemakers had probably heard of him but a peasant in the middle of nowhere - deliberatly isolated by his uncle...

[Spanky The Dolphin]

The EU shows us that Vader (or at least his image) was very well known throughout the Galactic population. He basically served as a living symbol of the Emperor's rule.

But let's not ignore the fact that Kreshna's argument is based on a false asumption.

[Crown]

<sip>
So how can we rationalize Luke's ignorance??

Ah, usually you ask about the issues you are ignorant about. Not the issues that you are aware of.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

The fact that Luke doesn't even ASK about Vader destroys your issue.

But that's the problem. See, if you're being told that your dad was killed by some prominent figure, shouldn't you at least asking further?

Also, let's see the way Obi-Wan explained:

A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he
turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi
Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all
but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force.

He explained as if Vader is some unknown person. Considering Vader's position in the Empire, shouldn't his explanation be something more like this?

Darth Vader. You know, the Emperor's right-hand man. Actually, he is the one who killed your father.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

You are still assuming that Luke was ignorent of Vader.

Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't, but it is poor reasoning to automatically assume that Luke didn't know who he was based on how Ben chose to phrase his story.

[KhyronTheBackstabber]

But Luke asked about the Force instead of Vader. You'd figure if Luke didn't know who Vader was, that would have been his next question.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

You are still assuming that Luke was ignorent of Vader.

Okay, maybe I was wrong. But I still wonder why Luke didn't even look surprised or interested at all when Ben mentioned Vader.

Let put it another way: A teenage kid never know who his father really is; and then one day he's being told by his mother that his father is actually some well-known figure, let say, Bill Clinton. Wouldn't the kid's reaction be as plain as Luke's?

Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't, but it is poor reasoning to automatically assume that Luke didn't know who he was based on how Ben chose to phrase his story.

Still, regardless of Obi-Wan's way to tell his story, Luke's reaction still doesn't fit (assuming he knew who Vader is).

[KhyronTheBackstabber]

Okay, maybe I was wrong. But I still wonder why Luke didn't even look surprised or interested at all when Ben mentioned Vader.

Let put it another way: A teenage kid never know who his father really is; and then one day he's being told by his mother that his father is actually some well-known figure, let say, Bill Clinton. Wouldn't the kid's reaction be as plain as Luke's?

He dosn't know Vader is his father.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Okay, maybe I was wrong. But I still wonder why Luke didn't even look surprised or interested at all when Ben mentioned Vader.

Let put it another way: A teenage kid never know who his father really is; and then one day he's being told by his mother that his father is actually some well-known figure, let say, Bill Clinton. Wouldn't the kid's reaction be as plain as Luke's?

He dosn't know Vader is his father.

You didn't get my point. I mean, if you suddenly know that some well-know figure (Elvis, Bill Gates, etc) somehow has something to do with your life (maybe he is your father, maybe he is the one who killed your father, etc), what your reaction will be?

Maybe Luke did hear about Vader before, and know exactly who he is. But he reacted like Vader is nothing of importance to him. That's why I wonder.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

He didn't react about Vader at all.

FALSE ASSUMPTION

[Mr. Sinister]

You are still assuming that Luke was ignorent of Vader.

Okay, maybe I was wrong. But I still wonder why Luke didn't even look surprised or interested at all when Ben mentioned Vader.

Let put it another way: A teenage kid never know who his father really is; and then one day he's being told by his mother that his father is actually some well-known figure, let say, Bill Clinton. Wouldn't the kid's reaction be as plain as Luke's?

Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't, but it is poor reasoning to automatically assume that Luke didn't know who he was based on how Ben chose to phrase his story.

Still, regardless of Obi-Wan's way to tell his story, Luke's reaction still doesn't fit (assuming he knew who Vader is).

Well, some people express anger and grief differently. Some people get emotional, some people chose to internalize it (which is likely what Luke did). Besides, assuming he knew who Vader was, Vader has a well-known killer. So might not have been surprising to Luke that Vader had a hand in his father’s death.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

He didn't react about Vader at all.

Okay, he didn't react at all. And I can be wrong about Luke never heard about Vader before.

But why he did NOT react at all?????

[KhyronTheBackstabber]

There is also the possibility that Luke was in shock that his father wasn't what he had been told all of his life. Not to mention that he might not have belived Obi-wan at first.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Well, some people express anger and grief differently. Some people get emotional, some people chose to internalize it (which is likely what Luke did). Besides, assuming he knew who Vader was, Vader has a well-known killer. So might not have been surprising to Luke that Vader had a hand in his father?s death.

Hmmm... okay. So maybe Luke didn't react at all because he already knew about Vader's reputation.

OK, so I maybe wrong about Luke's ignorance about Vader.

Still, the way Ben explained bothers me. Luke could already knew who Vader is, but Ben explained as if he never heard about him before.

"A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he
turned to evil..." etc

instead of something like this:

"Darth Vader was actually my pupil before he became evil like he is now. Actually, he is the one who killed your father."

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Sometimes people choose to tell stories in an odd manner.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Sometimes people choose to tell stories in an odd manner.

VERY odd. Imagine if you tell someone that Elvis Presley killed his father, and you're telling him like this:

"A young singer named Elvis, who was a pupil of mine until he...
(blah-blah-blah).... He betrayed and murdered your father."

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Well, that's not my problem.

[hvb]

Remember the Ben is the originator of the "from a certain point of view" quote.

Likely he is trying to tell the story from a particlular point of view to ensure that Luke will react in a specific manner to the tale, i.e. by accompanying him and becomming his apprentice, rather then telling it from a less oblique point of view that would leave Luke to react in a more normal manner.

There may also be some force mind-control mixed into this of course. If Yoda's recent behavior in the Clone Wars comics movie & Qui-Gon's dealings with a certain Toydorian is also typical of Ben; and by extension of jedi pursuing a goal in general, too.

Maybe Luke's decision to ask that particular question first, rather then asking about the Vader connection, was due to a subtle influence on Ben's behalf. (not that we can prove it. But the trend towards the goal justifying the means is strong in the jedi order at the time of its fall, and it is concievable that Ben has carried this habit of altering minds "for their own best" or "for the best of the force/course" with him to Tatooine ... Where this would incidently help him keep himself hidden. )

edited once for spelling

[General Zod]

keep in mind that Luke never actually knew his father, let alone who his father was. If someone goes through their childhood without knowing one parent or another, and are in their early 20s/late teens when they're told about their parents' history, then they aren't going to have much of an emotional attachment to that parent. It makes sense for Luke not to have acted very strongly emotional wise.

[Enforcer Talen]

ah, I havent read the eu much, but my recollection of it is that vader wasnt that a powerful figure during a new hope. my understanding was that he got most of his politcal power after that - shiny new fleet to hunt down rebels, instead of being watch dog on the grand moff.

[McC]

On Ben's explanation:

I think it makes enough sense, given who Luke is and Tatooine's political situation. In short, the only visible manifestation of the Empire on Tatooine is in the presence of the Stormtroopers. This presence increases a great deal (I think...) during ANH, due to obvious (to us) reasons, but nevertheless, this is all most people on Tatooine are ever going to see of the Empire. The comparison of Vader to Elvis or Al Gore or whomever else is a flawed one, in that you're comparing figures made popular in a free culture (and in the case of Elvis, as an entertainer). The Empire is decidedly not a free culture and information is probably stringently controlled. Furthermore, Vader is an enforcer, not an entertainer. Do you know the name of the director of the secret service off the top of your head? The FBI? The CIA? I sure don't. Furthermore, even assuming Vader's name is "well known," how "well known" is he going to be on Tatooine? To a moisture farmer? How much does it matter to a moisture farmer who runs the galaxy or who the officials are? Life on Tatooine seems to be pretty much unchanged between the time of the prequels and the end of ROTJ (save for the death of Jabba the Hutt). Outside events, especially events "such a long way from here," will have little impact on the lives of Tatooine's inhabitants. Given the preceeding, I think Ben's dummy-explanation of Vader is fine.

On Luke's non-reaction:

The idea that Luke was in shock or some other notion seems slightly unreasonable. He asked about the Force almost instantly after Ben finished his explanation. Luke asked how his father died. Ben told him. It was pretty straight-forward. The one thing Luke didn't understand from Ben's explanation was 'the Force,' of which he had never before heard. As such, that's what he asked about. IIRC, Luke does react when Ben says, "He betrayed and murdered your father." Then Ben goes on to explain that the Jedi were all but extinct and that Vader was seduced by the dark side. It's a new line of thought. I think he moves on quickly in order to avoid giving Luke time to dwell on it and feel any kind of dark emotions. In essence, he mentions the Force in order to give Luke a distraction; to take his mind off of the death of his father.

Is that sufficiently satiating for you?

[hvb]

I'm going to jump horses in mid stream here and band McC's wagon, and in so doing abandon my own soap box.

The way he lays it out seems very much in keeping with what we know of Tatooine & the Empire, so Ben probably didn't need much force-nudging to make Luke focus on the reference to the Force.

[Aubri]

I don't think it's obvious that Vader was a well-known figure in the Empire. I mean, do you know who the second-in-command of the CIA is? Vader is the Emperor's enforcer, not a public figure. EU doesn't count very heavily in this--Vader is important to the story, so people will tend to magnify his importance to galactic politics. If you think about the meeting on the Death Star, the political leaders--the grand moffs--didn't seem to think very highly of his opinions except as the voice of the Emperor.