Kessel Run

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-04-22 10:48am

I been musing over the Kessel Run and a couple of issues have been popping up in my head.

1. From the descriptions given in Jedi Academy and Ann Crisp Han Solo Trilogy, it appears that the Kessel Run is not a hyperspace journey at all. This would appear to contravene various earlier entries about the Kessel Run, which entailed it to be a short-cut through a dangerous region of space. How would you rationalise such a discrepancy?

2. If made purely on sublight engines, wouldn't the Kessel Run suggest past c capability for sublight drives?

3. The most common rationalisation for Han parsec statement is that the faster a ship is, the shorter the kessel Run is. However, could it be something else?

Here's my interpretation of the Kessel Run.

The Kessel Run is a sublight journey through a region of space, that normally prohibits hyperspace travel. Smugglers utilise the run in an attempt to cut short a journey through Imperial channels. Normal hyperspace routes out from kessel should be heavily monitored by Imperial forces, however, in the Maw, communications and sensors, other monitoring stations that would enforce customs checks are weaker to set up. As such, if a ship ventures into the Maw, he can evade Imperial attention, at the risk of physical destruction. He can later exit the Maw at such a point where Imperial monitoring is weaker and enter the more mainstream channels of shipping, thus evading the strict Imperial controls on Kessel.

As such, the parsec statement is meant to allude to the distance travelled in the Maw by Han, and the further that one travels in the Maw, the faster the ship speed is.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2004-04-22 11:03am

I'll buy that. It would jive with Han's '12 parsec' statement and with other statements to the description of the Kessel Run. This would also support what I've always said about the Millenium Falcon. That if it's the fastest ship in the fleet, as Han says in RotJ, then it has to be sublight. Why would you want one ship to show up at the Death Star II on a surprise attack when the bulk of the fleet is following? Therefore, it has to be faster at sublight speeds than even the A-Wing. (I'll take into exception that Han likes to boast, but come on). What's the point of having the Falcon out there, and dubbing it 'Gold Leader'? We didn't really see any other ship besides starfighters in the melee, and there were plenty of ships that would have anti star fighter capabillities. So, as I was so long windedly saying, Pain Rack has a point that the faster the sublight speed of a ship, the shorter the Kessel Run distance is. Meaning if Han made the trip in 12 parsecs, then he's one FMF (Fast Mother Fucker).

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2004-04-22 11:53am

of course the Falcon could still match the speed of the other ships to prevenmt that. IT would be stupid to do otherwise

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-22 03:17pm

Isn't it a function of how close you come to the Maw while going around it? IIRC, the exit vector most smugglers use is on the other side.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-04-22 04:44pm

I always assumed he claimed to have found the shortest journey through the Maw by cutting it very close to the singularities. Meh, George Lucas was a moron with that line

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-04-22 04:50pm

Actually, according to the Databank, Lucas' intentions with that line were that Han was lying.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-04-22 04:56pm

Long time smuggler, once officer of the Empire, lies and even incorrectly uses the units? I would imagine a space faring galaxy to know parsec, common knowledge and all, was a distance not a measurement of time.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-04-22 05:07pm

Stop bringing up the damn misapplication of units thing. That's been done to death, and the fucking EU has a good explenation for it.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-04-22 05:11pm

Huh? I don't even pay attention to those "done to death" arguments about Parsec. What is the general consensus? Did Han mean a Time or a Distance?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-04-22 05:13pm

Distance. It referes to how close to the Maw black hole cluster pilots fly during the run.

Come out from under your rock from time to time.

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2004-04-22 10:40pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Actually, according to the Databank, Lucas' intentions with that line were that Han was lying.

I can certainly buy this, since Han probably thought he was talking to a young farmboy (true) and a rich and probably senile old guy (false!).

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-04-22 11:19pm

Well, now in the light of it being rationallised, it could be interpreted as Han lying just about doing it in such a short time.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2004-04-22 11:52pm

I think Lucas, not "Han," simply confused parsecs for time units and doesn't want to admit it.

IIRC, both Alan Dean Foster and Brian Daley corrected Solo's line in the novelization and radio drama by substituting "standard time parts" for parsec.

Latter-day EU authors, apparently shackled by Lucasfilm's canon policy and George's insistence that he "meant to do that," had little choice but to concoct a rationalization for it.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-04-22 11:52pm

Yeah, boo hoo.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2004-04-22 11:53pm

You know I'm right.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-04-22 11:54pm

I know you know you're right.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-04-23 03:14pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Isn't it a function of how close you come to the Maw while going around it? IIRC, the exit vector most smugglers use is on the other side.

Can that even be rationalised realistically? You're talking about a series of black holes, then a "vast" asteroid cluster here. As fond as I am of Han actually being able to push his ship past 1.5c, I just find it diffcult to accept both scenarios as plausible. IOW, how can a SW ship be able to transit the Maw, which IMO should be interstellar distances, in hours or the like.

If the journey is to last more than a day or two, then, the so called time and fuel savings no longer make sense anymore.

That's what been running around my head. Is it possible that the parsec statement, as opposed to running through the Maw in the shortest distance possible= speed, could it be more running through the Maw in the longest distance possible=speed?

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-04-23 04:13pm

I suggest we just assume he was channeling a certain 24th century Soong-type Android...

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-04-23 04:23pm

PainRack wrote:Can that even be rationalised realistically? You're talking about a series of black holes, then a "vast" asteroid cluster here. As fond as I am of Han actually being able to push his ship past 1.5c, I just find it diffcult to accept both scenarios as plausible. IOW, how can a SW ship be able to transit the Maw, which IMO should be interstellar distances, in hours or the like.

If the journey is to last more than a day or two, then, the so called time and fuel savings no longer make sense anymore.

That's what been running around my head. Is it possible that the parsec statement, as opposed to running through the Maw in the shortest distance possible= speed, could it be more running through the Maw in the longest distance possible=speed?

You. Do. Not. Go. Through. The. Maw. That would be instant suicide.

You go around it, and the parsec statement refers to how CLOSE you get TO it while traveling PAST it.

God damn it, what the fuck is wrong with some of you people?

I just pray that you weren't serious with that 1.5c bullshit, or else I'd have to assume that you only remember what you want to hear and can apply to personal ulterior motives.

Sorry, it's just that this kind of shit being repeated ad-infinity really gets to me.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-04-23 10:05pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
You. Do. Not. Go. Through. The. Maw. That would be instant suicide.

You go around it, and the parsec statement refers to how CLOSE you get TO it while traveling PAST it.

God damn it, what the fuck is wrong with some of you people?

I just pray that you weren't serious with that 1.5c bullshit, or else I'd have to assume that you only remember what you want to hear and can apply to personal ulterior motives.

Sorry, it's just that this kind of shit being repeated ad-infinity really gets to me.

Ahhh, From Hutt Gambit
" The Kessel Run took ships traveling in realspace from the Kessel sector past and around the Maw"

No matter what, we're still talking interstellar distances.Unless somehow, Kessel is in the wispy arm of a nebula too, cause that's where the Pit is. A scattered asteroid field encased inside a wispy arm of a nebula.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-24 03:49am

PainRack wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:Isn't it a function of how close you come to the Maw while going around it? IIRC, the exit vector most smugglers use is on the other side.
Can that even be rationalised realistically? You're talking about a series of black holes, then a "vast" asteroid cluster here. As fond as I am of Han actually being able to push his ship past 1.5c, I just find it diffcult to accept both scenarios as plausible. IOW, how can a SW ship be able to transit the Maw, which IMO should be interstellar distances, in hours or the like.

If the journey is to last more than a day or two, then, the so called time and fuel savings no longer make sense anymore.

That's what been running around my head. Is it possible that the parsec statement, as opposed to running through the Maw in the shortest distance possible= speed, could it be more running through the Maw in the longest distance possible=speed?

What Spanky said. In addition, the point is not speed or fuel savings; the point is to avoid Imperial Customs.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-04-24 08:15pm

Rogue 9 wrote: What Spanky said. In addition, the point is not speed or fuel savings; the point is to avoid Imperial Customs.

And that goes against what Mako, Han and even the various technical journels say about the Kessel Run.

One of the old journals, prior to Jedi Academy, which has become the "standard" Kessel Run stated that the Kessel Run, while extremely dangerous, was worth the risk as it cut down considerable fuel and time expenses.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-04-25 11:05pm

And how does that contradict, exactly?

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2004-04-26 12:08am

The MF canonically CANNOT be super dooper fast. Its overhauled by ISDs. It is unable to flee fleet pursuit, and needs to 'outmanuevuer them' or hide in asteroids or attach to the hull etc. It is doubtless fast for a pile of shit freighter, but it is not faster than an A-Wing.

Given Ben's look to Han, I'm prepared to buy the idea that Han was talking shit, and Ben knew it. Indeed, why WOULD he expect anyone on Tatooine to know what the Kessel Run was, etc?

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-04-26 06:41am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:And how does that contradict, exactly?

If it was about customs, weren't you arguing that the Kessel Run is done "merely" to avoid Customs, as opposed to also having fuel and time savings?

Stark wrote:The MF canonically CANNOT be super dooper fast. Its overhauled by ISDs. It is unable to flee fleet pursuit, and needs to 'outmanuevuer them' or hide in asteroids or attach to the hull etc. It is doubtless fast for a pile of shit freighter, but it is not faster than an A-Wing.

Given Ben's look to Han, I'm prepared to buy the idea that Han was talking shit, and Ben knew it. Indeed, why WOULD he expect anyone on Tatooine to know what the Kessel Run was, etc?

And if we take the events on screen to be linear in nature, then the Avenger made an interstellar trip from Hoth to Anoat. Even if the Avenger made an immediate hyperspace jump along the MF last known track, we're left with wondering how the MF made an interstellar journey from Anoat to Bespin via sublight drives, as per the radio drama.