Size of the clone army

Dooey Jo · Post by **Dooey Jo** » 2004-04-25 06:20am

In AotC, Lama Su tells Obi-Wan that they have "200 000 units ready with a million more well on the way". But 1 200 000 clones would hardly be enough to protect the entire Republic.

Perhaps by "units", Lama Su didn't mean single clones but groups of clones? When we see the clones boarding the Acclamators, they march in "squares". Maybe one of these squares makes up one unit? The whole army would then consist of about 120 000 000 clones, which is more reasonable.

Could this be a possible explanation?

(I apologize if something similar to this has been posted before)

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-04-25 06:28am

I think that's been bought up before.

I don't think it's been established what it is though.

1.2 million wouldn't make for a good galactic army though.

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2004-04-25 06:37am

Quoting Mike Wong:

The Kaminoans say they have produced 200,000 "units", with another million "units" to be ready shortly. It is widely assumed that a "unit" is an individual trooper, however, it should be noted that it might also be a squad, a company, a batallion, or a division. 1.2 million soldiers is a rather small figure for a galactic army, particularly when its principal opposition (battle droids) can be manufactured in factories which pump out many tens of thousands of droids per day.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/AOTC/Revelations-2.html

So to answer the question, yes, it's probable that by "units", Lama Su didn't mean single clones but groups of clones.

Black Admiral · Post by **Black Admiral** » 2004-04-25 06:45am

The novelisation says that one 'unit' = one clone IIRC.

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2004-04-25 06:49am

Do we have a quote?

Black Admiral · Post by **Black Admiral** » 2004-04-25 06:53am

Winston Blake wrote:Do we have a quote?

Unfortuantely, no, since I've mislaid my copy of it.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-04-25 06:53am

1,200,000 was only the very beginning- millions more were coming. The Inside the Worlds of AOTC, or some other book, makes that clear, IIRC. But yes, one unit= one clone.

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2004-04-25 08:03am

Have the Kaminoins found a quicker way to make clones then?

Because if it takes ten years to replace a lost trooper, the republic is going to get curbstomped into the ground by numbers alone (I think the droid factories on Geonosis could make several thousand a day)

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-04-25 08:05am

The EU also follows that. Shatterpoint made it clear that there were only 1.2 million clonetroopers, however, it also seemed to infer that 1.2 million clonetroopers were all that were on offer, until another batch came along.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-04-25 08:07am

the most relevant quote of one unit=one clone is page 205.

"Oh yes, it's essential," the Prime minister replied."Otherwise a mature clone would take a lifetime to grow. Now we can do in half the time. The units you will see on the parade ground we started ten year ago..."

Before hand Obi-Wan was looking at individual children clones...and no reference to a single squad or sort.

And Vympel already explained where and why that AoTC count was so low in terms of the conflict ahead.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2004-04-25 11:04am

According to the lesser canonical Inside the Worlds of Attack of the Clones, the figure 200 000 units could apply only to Tipoca city:

The clone military education complex, which dominates Tipoca City, is the biggest training center on Kamino. Its current production is dedicated to fulfilling the Republic contract, the largest cloning project the Kaminoan government has ever undertaken. When Obi-Wan arrives, Tipoca is already primed to deliver 200,000 clone troops, while facilities across the planet are equipped to produce millions more.

Source: Inside the Worlds of Attack of the Clones pg. 21.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2004-04-25 11:22am

Ghost Rider wrote:the most relevant quote of one unit=one clone is page 205.

"Oh yes, it's essential," the Prime minister replied."Otherwise a mature clone would take a lifetime to grow. Now we can do in half the time. The units you will see on the parade ground we started ten year ago..."
Before hand Obi-Wan was looking at individual children clones...and no reference to a single squad or sort.

How does that mean 1 unit = 1 clone? I still don't get it.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-04-25 11:30am

Shatterpoint really put the nail in the coffin on this one in that they state the there are 1.2 million clones. Mace even muses to him self how inadaquete that is for a galactic scale war.

My question is, though, how long will it take to get the second run into action. Is there any cannon on if the growth acceleration is 2:1 or is it on a curve? Are the Boba aged clones on track to be ready to go in 5 years? Or less time?

Exactly what would be considered a fully grown clone? 18 years? 20? Jango hardly looked 20 ish, more like in his late 30's if not 40's. Would his clones be good to go at his age or ealier? I would assume that 18 to 20 would be old enough which jives with the 'twice as fast' growth acceleration.

I would assume that if it is on a curve, the super rapid acceleration would be at the begining of the cycle, bringing the clone up to Boba age or older with the remaining years being 'normal' for maxinum training time.

McC · Post by **McC** » 2004-04-25 12:04pm

It's also worth mentioning, with regard to clones vs droids, that the clones demonstrate battlefield prowess far exceeding that of the droids, and as such one clone would be tactically and strategically worth a score of standard battledroids. Still, 1.2 million might represent the first "division" of clone warriors -- something of a blitzkrieg unit, since that sort of tactic is similar to what they used (rapid, overwhelming strike to break a relatively fixed enemy stronghold). Viewed through that lens, it makes a bit more sense why the number is so low.

I admit, though, that I haven't read Shatterpoint, so I don't know how what I've said above jives with that.

President Sharky · Post by **President Sharky** » 2004-04-25 03:53pm

By now, some 22 months after the Battle of Geonosis, the clone facilities on Kamino ought to have delivered a couple million more clones. IIRC, a recent HoloNet News article detailed that a new group of "Clone Commandos" was undergoing training. Obviously, these commandos cannot be part of the first generation of clones, or else they would have already been fully trained and fighting the war. A second generation of clones has probably already been released, and if we go by the "millions more" quote from Inside the Worlds of ATOC, the Grand Army of the Republic must have doubled or tripled in size by now. Add to this that Shatterpoint hinted that the clonetroopers would have to train recruits for the army, then we may be looking at a much larger number for the army, with a core group of several million elite clonetroopers.

Equinox2003 · Post by **Equinox2003** » 2004-04-25 05:42pm

One thing I heard that made me wonder, aside from the number of clone stuff, is, once the clones are ready, who is ready to command them?
With it being said that there had not been a full scale war since the
creation of the Republic some 1,000 or so years before, who has the
knowledge to make a competent general for the clones? What wars do
they have to study from? Assuming they did study wars from 1,000
years ago, one would think that tech advances would render that stuff
meaningless. So when the clones are ready for battle, who has the
knowledge to command them in an efficent way?

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-04-25 05:49pm

Black Admiral wrote:The novelisation says that one 'unit' = one clone IIRC.

Yes, it does. and I have the quote somewhere. Although other sources (Clone Wars Cartoon, ITW AOTC) imply they have alot more shortly after (millions more at least)

Imperium² · Post by **Imperium²** » 2004-04-25 05:52pm

One would think you would at least need hundreds of millions or even billions of clones to have a respectable galactic army.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-04-25 05:54pm

Equinox2003 wrote:One thing I heard that made me wonder, aside from the number of clone stuff, is, once the clones are ready, who is ready to command them?
With it being said that there had not been a full scale war since the
creation of the Republic some 1,000 or so years before, who has the
knowledge to make a competent general for the clones? What wars do
they have to study from? Assuming they did study wars from 1,000
years ago, one would think that tech advances would render that stuff
meaningless. So when the clones are ready for battle, who has the
knowledge to command them in an efficent way?

It is shown in the Clone Wars cartooons that Jedi lead the Clonetroopers. Jedi would be a fine choice since they are always doing little combat deeds for the Republic, not to mention their ability to use the Force would help in their command abilities. Although there are probably not enough Jedi to fill all command rolls, so the Kaminoians would have no doubt engineered a commanding clone officer, like they do with piolts and so forth.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-04-25 05:59pm

Imperium² wrote:One would think you would at least need hundreds of millions or even billions of clones to have a respectable galactic army.

Trillions is more like it, and even that is conservative.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2004-04-25 07:52pm

A good number for an army would be billions. Any more would be impossible to control or manage. With Stormtrooper armor and training and weapons, about ten billion should be sufficient.

EDIT: Seeing as millions of Battle and Super-Battle Droids were massacred by a few thousand or tens of thousands on Geonosis, one or two living soldiers seem equal in quality to many, dozens perhaps, of droids.

McC · Post by **McC** » 2004-04-25 07:55pm

And what standard are you drawing this "impossible to manage" from? Given sufficiently compartmentalized command and control structure, any number should be managable.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2004-04-25 08:01pm

McC wrote:And what standard are you drawing this "impossible to manage" from? Given sufficiently compartmentalized command and control structure, any number should be managable.

Well, i was just thinking it'd be difficult to feed, equip, and control trillions of soldiers. It's not about command, just that it'd be difficult, i think, to maintain such an army.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2004-04-25 08:02pm

18-Till-I-Die wrote:
McC wrote:And what standard are you drawing this "impossible to manage" from? Given sufficiently compartmentalized command and control structure, any number should be managable.
Well, i was just thinking it'd be difficult to feed, equip, and control trillions of soldiers. It's not about command, just that it'd be difficult, i think, to maintain such an army.

Not for a galaxy-spanning organization.

McC · Post by **McC** » 2004-04-25 08:03pm

One planet, correctly managed, can already feed billions (we live on such a planet, we simply don't have the correct management). Trillions would only need a few dedicated agricultural worlds.