What was Ozzel's Big Mistake?

[Darth Raptor]

Something I'm not at all clear on. In TESB, Vader "relieves" Admiral Ozzel of his duties because he made some giant tactical blunder. From the movie diologue, it seems like the fleet came out of hyperspace too close to Hoth, giving the Rebels enough advance warning to raise their shield.

But what was the alternative? Vader made it sound like the entire ground assault was an improvisation because the shield nixed the possibility of an orbital bombardment. But they weren't going to BDZ Hoth anyway because the secondary objective was to get Luke. So wouldn't ground forces have had to land anyway? What were they supposed to do, jump in to some sensor blindspot or beyond their sensors' max range? Then what? That makes it rather impossible to deploy ground forces OR set up a blockade.

Any answers?

[Gandalf]

No idea personally.

Perhaps he wanted to wait there and attempt one of those smaller hyperspace jumps, thus appearing on top of the planet.

[Talon Karrde]

When we bring this up we automatically assume that Vader did INDEED want to oribtally bombard Hoth, when in all actuality, it could be just because he got pissed that an Admiral in his fleet could be that incompitent. Perhaps he never wanted to orbitably bombard the base, but just got angry when his fleet's leader would make such a blunder.

[Vympel]

Vader wanted to sneak up on Hoth- why, I'm not so sure. As General Reikaan said, with all the meteorite activity it made spotting incoming ships difficult- Ozzel negated that advantage.

[Talon Karrde]

Vader wanted to sneak up on Hoth- why, I'm not so sure. As General Reikaan said, with all the meteorite activity it made spotting incoming ships difficult- Ozzel negated that advantage.

Very good point about the asteroids.

[Crown]

Vader wanted to sneak up on Hoth- why, I'm not so sure. As General Reikaan said, with all the meteorite activity it made spotting incoming ships difficult- Ozzel negated that advantage.

Very good point about the asteroids.

Indeed, then Vader could have sent some kind sabotage crack snow trooper team to disable any defences the Rebels could have in order to ensure that they capture more of them. Imagine if they had managed to disable the Ion cannon, and or the shields.

The Rebels would have been fucked.

[McC]

Further, if Ozzel had brought the fleet out of Hyperspace far enough away, the Death Squadron could have approached from the far side of the base (I would assume they'd have global coordinates from probe droid telemetry data), thus rendering the Rebels totally unaware of their presence until the Imperial troops had already infilitrated.

[YT300000]

Vader wanted to sneak up on Hoth- why, I'm not so sure.

Perhaps to take out the shield generator and v-150 ion cannon with precise turbolaser strikes and then have all the time they wanted to trap and capture the Rebels, preventing any from escaping.

[vakundok]

As I know, the radio dramatisation suggests that Vader was annoyed because a "clear" bombardment was impossible. Whatever it means.
In an older script version Vader mentions that he previously directly ordered Ozzel to came out from hyperspace farther from Hoth.

[Deathstalker]

I think Ozzel got blamed for something beyond his control. The Rebels knew the the Empire was on its way because of the probe droid. The Empire could appear at any moment, so the Rebels put up the shield immediatly and then started the evacuation. If the probe droid hadn't been discovered, then Ozzel did screw up. The Empire would have dropped right on top of Hoth, hit the ion cannon and shiled generator and assualted the base in a lot less time.

[Crazedwraith]

I never understood how you could drop out of hyperspace to *CLOSE* to the planet, surely to closer you get the less time the enemy will have to react, supposedly according to this site you can drop out of hyperspace within accurate turbolaser range, thus you could drop out of hyperspace at point blank ranger and take out the sheilds and ion cannon and then the rebels are helpless.

[Isolder74]

I never understood how you could drop out of hyperspace to *CLOSE* to the planet, surely to closer you get the less time the enemy will have to react, supposedly according to this site you can drop out of hyperspace within accurate turbolaser range, thus you could drop out of hyperspace at point blank ranger and take out the sheilds and ion cannon and then the rebels are helpless.

Yet You aren't quite sure of the locations of the targets. Jumping oputside the enemies sensor range but still within your own would allow you to determine that. Then you could do a short jump putting your ships in the right places to hit the critical targets without any warning. Ozzel jumps in close enough to be detected but too far away to allow for the ships to target the targets they need to ensure complete capture of the base.

[Burak Gazan]

At the time of ESB, Vader is completely obsessed with Skywalker; the mission is not to obliterate the base, he want prisoners - preferably ones he can use to persuade Skywalker to cooperate. It may have been his intention to exit hyperspace on the edge of the system, then deploy the fleet so as they approach from multiple vectors, with fighter screens in place. It's likely a lot fewer rebel ships would have escaped in that scenario. With Ozzel's plan, Vader now has a lot harder time getting what he wants. And we all know he gets cranky when he dont get what he wants

Edit: General Veers comment was "He felt surprise was wiser ...." we dont get to know what the alternative was because Vader cuts him off with the "He is as clumsy as he is stupid!" line. I submit there was another plan that the late Admiral Ozzel veto'd

[Crazedwraith]

I never understood how you could drop out of hyperspace to *CLOSE* to the planet, surely to closer you get the less time the enemy will have to react, supposedly according to this site you can drop out of hyperspace within accurate turbolaser range, thus you could drop out of hyperspace at point blank ranger and take out the sheilds and ion cannon and then the rebels are helpless.

Hye you could just jump in point blank and staturate the area with ion cannon fire, no need for persision as you not going to kill anyone with them just disable it all and land troops.

Yet You aren't quite sure of the locations of the targets. Jumping oputside the enemies sensor range but still within your own would allow you to determine that. Then you could do a short jump putting your ships in the right places to hit the critical targets without any warning. Ozzel jumps in close enough to be detected but too far away to allow for the ships to target the targets they need to ensure complete capture of the base.

[Crazedwraith]

I never understood how you could drop out of hyperspace to *CLOSE* to the planet, surely to closer you get the less time the enemy will have to react, supposedly according to this site you can drop out of hyperspace within accurate turbolaser range, thus you could drop out of hyperspace at point blank ranger and take out the sheilds and ion cannon and then the rebels are helpless.

Yet You aren't quite sure of the locations of the targets. Jumping oputside the enemies sensor range but still within your own would allow you to determine that. Then you could do a short jump putting your ships in the right places to hit the critical targets without any warning. Ozzel jumps in close enough to be detected but too far away to allow for the ships to target the targets they need to ensure complete capture of the base.

Hey you could just jump in point blank and staturate the area with ion cannon fire, no need for presision as you not going to kill anyone with them just disable it all and land troops.

EDITED for typos and repostioning text out side the quote links.

[hvb]

That would assume ion cannon fire doesn't kill, which it very well may.
Ion fire is not "stun".

And a cannon-shot worth of something that ionizes will likely fry the synapses of any human target it impacts near (think of it like standing near a lightning strike).
Vader wanted Luke alive AND with a functioning brain, so that option is right out.

Also there could be casualties among the rebels (again possibly including Luke) due to equipment failure, if you ionize their lifesupport systems along with all else.

[Executor32]

That would assume ion cannon fire doesn't kill, which it very well may.
Ion fire is not "stun".

And a cannon-shot worth of something that ionizes will likely fry the synapses of any human target it impacts near (think of it like standing near a lightning strike).
Vader wanted Luke alive AND with a functioning brain, so that option is right out.

Also there could be casualties among the rebels (again possibly including Luke) due to equipment failure, if you ionize their lifesupport systems along with all else.

In Dark Force Rising, Mara Jade ejected from her Z-95 during the battle for the Katana fleet. Her ejector seat was hit by an ion blast from one of Bel Iblis's Dreadnaughts, and she suffered no direct effects from the blast. The electronics in the seat, including life supports, were fried, and she was hit in the head by a loose piece of the seat. She lost consciousness, and was recovered by Skywalker. She had some minor neural damage, but it was due to being without oxygen for too long rather than the ion blast.

[Rogue 9]

Its possible to detect emergence from hyperspace at ranges where you wouldn't detect the ship itself if it was at sublight. Moving in and out of hyperspace involves vast amounts of energy and radiation. Admiral Ozzel emerged from hyperspace within the detection envelope for the radiation/energy surge; had he not done so the Star Destroyers would have been much harder to detect on sublight approach.

[DoctorObvious]

In Dark Force Rising, Mara Jade ejected from her Z-95 during the battle for the Katana fleet. Her ejector seat was hit by an ion blast from one of Bel Iblis's Dreadnaughts, and she suffered no direct effects from the blast. The electronics in the seat, including life supports, were fried, and she was hit in the head by a loose piece of the seat. She lost consciousness, and was recovered by Skywalker. She had some minor neural damage, but it was due to being without oxygen for too long rather than the ion blast.

It's possible that the ejector seat had something like a faraday cage for ion cannons; something that will lessen their impact. We still don't know what would happen it an unshielded creature were hit by a blast.

[Elfdart]

I think the SDs and SSD were supposed to come out of hyperspace a good distance away from Hoth. This would have left Vader more options from the "playbook".

1) He could possibly sneak in commando teams to take out the shields and the Ion Cannon.

2) He could send those TIE Bombers in at high speed to wipe out the ground targets.

3) He could order precision "shelling" from a distance that would wipe out the key targets. Because of the probe droid, Vader knows exactly where the base and key targets are. He doesn't need to even be within scanning range to know where to strike. The fleet could have parked a long way from from Hoth, blasted the shit out of the shields, hangars and ion cannon, and not taken a single casualty. The Rebels and their ships would have been like those P-40 Warhawks at Pearl Harbor: blown to bits before anyone knows what's happened.

4) Various combinations of (1), (2) and (3).

Ozzel gave away the element of surprise and what should have been only slightly more difficult than a hog killin' became a serious battle in which the Empire took a number of unnecessary losses. I would have strangled his ass, too!

[hvb]

In Dark Force Rising, Mara Jade ejected from her Z-95 during the battle for the Katana fleet. Her ejector seat was hit by an ion blast from one of Bel Iblis's Dreadnaughts, and she suffered no direct effects from the blast. The electronics in the seat, including life supports, were fried, and she was hit in the head by a loose piece of the seat. She lost consciousness, and was recovered by Skywalker. She had some minor neural damage, but it was due to being without oxygen for too long rather than the ion blast.

A glancing hit, I believe. We see similar descriptions in other EU: in I, Jedi & in at least one of the X-W books, I think.
However I don't think we have ever heared of a fighter that was hit by more then a glancing hit from a capitol ship ion cannon (only direct hits from fighter ions), so whether a direct hit is survivable is not documented, and logic (i.e. real life) would dictate that a sufficient electrical surge will kill a person.
I think it very likely that a cap-ship Ion hit on or near an unprotected person will cause severe injuries up to and including death, as per my lightning strike analogy.

So if you try to take out structures on the surface of Hoth, you run a serious risk of killing the rebel troops in or near said structure, and Vader does not know the exact location of Luke, so cannot take the risk of shooting at any manned structures.

As DocObv says: some structure on a fighter (e.g. ejector seat or "airframe") may serve to reduce the effect of a glancing hit to a survivable (or even trivial) level. such a structure, however, is not in place to protect personnel on the ground near the installations on Hoth, so a direct hit nearby may well be fatal to exposed troops, as they are in contact with the ground the installation is standing on.
Thus Ion fire is likely more deadly when used on ground targets then when used against (ungrounded) targets in space.

[Crazedwraith]

,
However I don't think we have ever heared of a fighter that was hit by more then a glancing hit from a capitol ship ion cannon (only direct hits from fighter ions), so whether a direct hit is survivable is not documented, and logic (i.e. real life) would dictate that a sufficient electrical surge will kill a person.

In Rogue Squadron Novel Rogue two gets hit by a planetary defense ion cannon and dies.

[Lex]

Well I think that Vader wanted to make a suprise Assault to destroy the shield generator and the ion cannon, so he could land his troops directly next to the Rebels, with Assault shuttles and so on. Or stay outside their sensor ranges with the SD's and launch the troops to do the same thing w/o the heavy SD weapons.

[YT300000]

We still don't know what would happen it an unshielded creature were hit by a blast.

In I, Jedi, Corran shoots one of the avians attacking his (IIRC) Z-95 with the fighter's ion cannon, and it goes into a seizure, falling to the ground.

[Wild Karrde]

The New Republic engineers powered up the ion cannon and focused a single blast toward the lower section of the closest Imperial walker. The bolt struck and fused the knee joint of the AT-AT's front foreleg, melting the sevomotor mechanisms.

Hardly a weapon you'd want to bombard a base with for people you want captured alive. Especially considering that the SDs in the fleet only had heavy, anti-capship cannons.

Edit: As for Ozzel's mistake, from what I gather from the novel and radio drama Vader wanted to sneak into the system under concealment of the asteroid field and use precise long range turbolaser strikes to take out the ion cannon and shield generator to have free run against an effectively defenceless base.