Darth Tyrannus vs. Mace Windu

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2004-05-08 03:30pm

Count Dooku, or Darth Tyrannus if you will, is pitted against Mace Windu. Who will win?

Vohu Manah · Post by **Vohu Manah** » 2004-05-08 03:39pm

I think it would be close, and could go either way.

I would think Dooku would hold his own, though Windu would have a slight edge in my opinion. Yoda is supposedly a superior duelist to Master Windu, and Count Dooku managed to keep the elder Jedi Master at bay during their duel (that duel was short, and neither force user seemed to gain ground over the other; again, entirely my opinion).

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-05-08 03:49pm

Windu has reach on his side though. A lot of Yoda's advantage was being used just to counter Dooku's longer arms.

Until I see Dooku take out a patent press of Doom and Destruction singlehandedly, I'm probably going to give it to Mace.

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2004-05-08 04:20pm

Considering how swiftly Windu took out Jango, as compared to Jango/Kenobi duel I'm inclined to believe that Windu would, at the very least, hold his own.

If we put him in the same position as Kenobi and Skywalker during AOTC, Windu could probably delay Dooku long enough for Yoda to arrive and the two of them would dominate Dooku.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-05-08 04:28pm

Crom wrote:Considering how swiftly Windu took out Jango, as compared to Jango/Kenobi duel I'm inclined to believe that Windu would, at the very least, hold his own.

If we put him in the same position as Kenobi and Skywalker during AOTC, Windu could probably delay Dooku long enough for Yoda to arrive and the two of them would dominate Dooku.

Remember that Obi-Wan was trying more to take Jango alive rather than just kill him. Even so, my read on the Mace>Jango kill was that Mace just said screw it, and held Jango in place telekinetically so he couldn't try anything fancy.

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2004-05-08 04:47pm

consequences wrote:Remember that Obi-Wan was trying more to take Jango alive rather than just kill him. Even so, my read on the Mace>Jango kill was that Mace just said screw it, and held Jango in place telekinetically so he couldn't try anything fancy.

Well, that and Windu is a Jedi Master, and second only to Yoda. At least, that's the impression I got.

It makes me wonder why Kenobi didn't TK Jango so he wouldn't be pulling all that crap.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-05-08 04:55pm

Reverse Samson effect? The more hair a Jedi has, the less powerful they become?

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2004-05-08 04:57pm

consequences wrote:Reverse Samson effect? The more hair a Jedi has, the less powerful they become?

Well, by that logic Anakin should be weaker than Kenobi. While his performance was less than impressive against Dooku, and Kenobi has taken down Maul, we do know for a fact that Skywalker's potential Jedi power is out of this world.

Then again ... Darth Vader was really bald.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-05-08 05:00pm

Crom wrote:
consequences wrote:Reverse Samson effect? The more hair a Jedi has, the less powerful they become?
Well, by that logic Anakin should be weaker than Kenobi. While his performance was less than impressive against Dooku, and Kenobi has taken down Maul, we do know for a fact that Skywalker's potential Jedi power is out of this world.

Then again ... Darth Vader was really bald.

I though Kenobi had a good deal more hair in AotC than Anakin, what with the whole padawan haido, compounded by Kenobi's beard.
Maybe its the genes for Male pattern baldness that indicate strength in the Force, rather than the amount of hair you have at any given time..

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2004-05-08 06:34pm

consequences wrote: Even so, my read on the Mace>Jango kill was that Mace just said screw it, and held Jango in place telekinetically so he couldn't try anything fancy.

Short of turning and running, all Jango could do was stand and shoot given that his jetpack had been disabled. And he probably felt confident about shooting given his earlier success.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2004-05-08 07:02pm

Mace Windu was one of two masters of the 7 Saber styles IIRC. However given that Dooku used a fencing style that kinda owned the normal martial arts style it'll be very close. In the end i think Dooku is just about the stronger, force user wise.

Meest · Post by **Meest** » 2004-05-08 07:04pm

Shoot at a much slower rate that he's capable of too

Maybe he was really trying to tie and bind Mace's hands with selective shots. Either way don't think you can compare how Jedi dispatch non jedi, and maybe Mace actually used some darkside, he lobbed his head off with no remorse then gloated over the kill.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2004-05-08 07:08pm

Meest wrote:Shoot at a much slower rate that he's capable of too Maybe he was really trying to tie and bind Mace's hands with selective shots. Either way don't think you can compare how Jedi dispatch non jedi, and maybe Mace actually used some darkside, he lobbed his head off with no remorse then gloated over the kill.

And you base the fact Mace used the Darkside on what exactly?

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2004-05-08 07:13pm

Meest wrote:Shoot at a much slower rate that he's capable of too

I thought that was due to him being down to just one gun. I'll check it out tommorow.

Maybe he was really trying to tie and bind Mace's hands with selective shots.

maybe, but i think he was just trying to shoot him like he did that other jedi. Unfortunately for him Mace wasn't concentrating on a sith at the time.

Either way don't think you can compare how Jedi dispatch non jedi, and maybe Mace actually used some darkside, he lobbed his head off with no remorse then gloated over the kill.

Jedi taking on non-jedi tends to end with jedi lopping something off (ponda baba's arm, wampa's arm, various battledroid pieces.) so it's not surprising Mace went for the head.
I don't remember the gloating either so i'll check that too.

willburns84 · Post by **willburns84** » 2004-05-08 07:18pm

I realize how low RPG stuff is on the canon scale, however, where fluff in the RPG is not contradicted by other sources, it's still useful.

WOTC D20 Star Wars... "Power of the Jedi Sourcebook" p. 112

"Master Windu was also known within the Order for his unusual fighting style, one that he developed after studying the dueling styles of various lightsaber masters. His attacks consisted of relentless, unpredictable blows, like shots from an autoblaster. Master Windu himself remained perfectly balanced and centered. In the history of the Jedi Order, only who opponents ever overcame him hin battle. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was former Master Dooku, whose own fighting style was archaic, yet stunningly effective."

Bold mine.

I realize that "Shatterpoint" raises the possibility (?spelling?) that Windu could have stopped the Clone Wars from starting by attacking Dooku on Geonosis, but I've always looked at that as Windu's own personal belief on what he could have done.

EDIT - removed the bolding - realized that it really wasn't necessary.

willburns84 · Post by **willburns84** » 2004-05-08 07:28pm

Meest wrote:Shoot at a much slower rate that he's capable of too Maybe he was really trying to tie and bind Mace's hands with selective shots. Either way don't think you can compare how Jedi dispatch non jedi, and maybe Mace actually used some darkside, he lobbed his head off with no remorse then gloated over the kill.

The gloating?

I'm guessing it was the hard look on Windu's face when he looked down at Jango's headless corpse.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2004-05-09 09:34am

I realize that "Shatterpoint" raises the possibility (?spelling?) that Windu could have stopped the Clone Wars from starting by attacking Dooku on Geonosis, but I've always looked at that as Windu's own personal belief on what he could have done.

At the start of that battle Mace had his saber at Dooku's throat, one flick of the wrist and Dooku would have been decapped. Thats the part Mace is refering to in Shatterpoint.

willburns84 · Post by **willburns84** » 2004-05-09 09:40am

Lord Pounder wrote:
I realize that "Shatterpoint" raises the possibility (?spelling?) that Windu could have stopped the Clone Wars from starting by attacking Dooku on Geonosis, but I've always looked at that as Windu's own personal belief on what he could have done.
At the start of that battle Mace had his saber at Dooku's throat, one flick of the wrist and Dooku would have been decapped. Thats the part Mace is refering to in Shatterpoint.

The lightsaber was at Jango's throat, I think.

And Dooku I think could have ably defended himself if Windu suddenly turned his full attention to him. No, no evidence other than that which I've displayed earlier.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2004-05-09 09:43am

willburns84 wrote:
Lord Pounder wrote:
I realize that "Shatterpoint" raises the possibility (?spelling?) that Windu could have stopped the Clone Wars from starting by attacking Dooku on Geonosis, but I've always looked at that as Windu's own personal belief on what he could have done.
At the start of that battle Mace had his saber at Dooku's throat, one flick of the wrist and Dooku would have been decapped. Thats the part Mace is refering to in Shatterpoint.
The lightsaber was at Jango's throat, I think.

correct, though since Windu had got to that point it would be a little extra effort to just lop Jango there and then stick Dooku (or the other way round preferably). No grandstanding, no smart alecing, just chop, chop and take the genosian and trade fed comanders hostage while the other jedi rescue obi, ani and ami.

Talon Karrde · Post by **Talon Karrde** » 2004-05-09 01:30pm

Lord Pounder wrote:
I realize that "Shatterpoint" raises the possibility (?spelling?) that Windu could have stopped the Clone Wars from starting by attacking Dooku on Geonosis, but I've always looked at that as Windu's own personal belief on what he could have done.
At the start of that battle Mace had his saber at Dooku's throat, one flick of the wrist and Dooku would have been decapped. Thats the part Mace is refering to in Shatterpoint.

Actually, to be absolutely correct, he had his saber at Jango Fett's throat, but the fact that he could have quickly turned and swiped at Dooku is what bothers Mace.

Talon Karrde · Post by **Talon Karrde** » 2004-05-09 01:55pm

I would say Mace Windu, based again on Shatterpoint. The 7th form of lightsaber combat he invented was said to be "the most deadly" form of lightsaber combat ever.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2004-05-09 02:34pm

Well, Mace Windu is known for his saber/fighting skills and strength and power, in fact he's the Jedi's example of a great saber user while Yoda is more renowned for his knowledge. But I'm basing it on what Anakin was blubbering to Padme as he was talking about Obi.

And since Mace Windu is so cool, I guess he just pwns Count Dooku.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-05-09 02:41pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Well, Mace Windu is known for his saber/fighting skills and strength and power, in fact he's the Jedi's example of a great saber user while Yoda is more renowned for his knowledge. But I'm basing it on what Anakin was blubbering to Padme as he was talking about Obi.

And since Mace Windu is so cool, I guess he just pwns Count Dooku.

"Cause Mace Windu He's a bad mother-"

willburns84 · Post by **willburns84** » 2004-05-09 09:16pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Well, Mace Windu is known for his saber/fighting skills and strength and power, in fact he's the Jedi's example of a great saber user while Yoda is more renowned for his knowledge. But I'm basing it on what Anakin was blubbering to Padme as he was talking about Obi.
And since Mace Windu is so cool, I guess he just pwns Count Dooku.

Mace Windu is cool, I agree, but to have an eighty plus year old human hold his own against the most powerful Jedi (at the time) in lightsaber combat, not to mention deflecting away the Force lightning thrown back at him makes Tyranus simply incredible in my book.

That and in the end Anakin/Vader can be blamed on Yoda.

Anakin was trained by Obi-Wan.
Obi-Wan was trained by Qui-Gon.
Qui-Gon was trained by Dooku.
Dooku was trained by Yoda.

Yoda destroyed the Old Republic.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-05-09 11:50pm

consequences wrote:
Shroom Man 777 wrote:Well, Mace Windu is known for his saber/fighting skills and strength and power, in fact he's the Jedi's example of a great saber user while Yoda is more renowned for his knowledge. But I'm basing it on what Anakin was blubbering to Padme as he was talking about Obi.

And since Mace Windu is so cool, I guess he just pwns Count Dooku.
"Cause Mace Windu He's a bad mother-"

"Shut yo' mouth."