Vader & Princess Leia

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2004-05-11 08:27am

If Leia is Vader's daughter, how comes he didnt "felt" it in ANH? Why wouldnt he persuade her to the dark side (dunno if she would be a strong jedi but than again, the force runs strong in their family) instead of letting her excecuted?

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-05-11 08:31am

wautd wrote:If Leia is Vader's daughter, how comes he didnt "felt" it in ANH? Why wouldnt he persuade her to the dark side (dunno if she would be a strong jedi but than again, the force runs strong in their family) instead of letting her excecuted?

Why did Vader shoot at Luke, when he could "feel" the Force in him?

Short Answer: he didn't know that pilot was his son, he found out later.

Long Answer: Leia probably didn't use the Force at all when she was being tortured by Vader. Unless it was a low-level pain tolerance thing, which Vader might not have "felt" or whatever. Plus, Qui-gon needed a blood sample to confirm Anakin was indeed strong in the force, making it less cut and dry than your post suggests. In other words, maybe Vader did feel something, but either dismissed it as irrelevant or simply said "Bah, who cares? She's a traitor anyway."

Plus he may not know he had a daughter. Wait for episode 3, maybe it'll all be explained then.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2004-05-11 08:36am

Stofsk wrote:
wautd wrote:If Leia is Vader's daughter, how comes he didnt "felt" it in ANH? Why wouldnt he persuade her to the dark side (dunno if she would be a strong jedi but than again, the force runs strong in their family) instead of letting her excecuted?
Why did Vader shoot at Luke, when he could "feel" the Force in him?

Short Answer: he didn't know that pilot was his son, he found out later.

Long Answer: Leia probably didn't use the Force at all when she was being tortured by Vader. Unless it was a low-level pain tolerance thing, which Vader might not have "felt" or whatever. Plus, Qui-gon needed a blood sample to confirm Anakin was indeed strong in the force, making it less cut and dry than your post suggests. In other words, maybe Vader did feel something, but either dismissed it as irrelevant or simply said "Bah, who cares? She's a traitor anyway."

Plus he may not know he had a daughter. Wait for episode 3, maybe it'll all be explained then.

makes sense

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-05-11 08:39am

Really? Just reading over what I wrote made me feel like I'd committed an atrocity on the english language.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2004-05-11 08:43am

Stofsk wrote:Really? Just reading over what I wrote made me feel like I'd committed an atrocity on the english language.

no but your opinion made me think further.

Ok Luke & Vader could feel eachother (flyby shuttle/excecutor) but only because they could recognize eachother "karma" since they met in ESB. (imo, can be wrong offcourse)

edit: sweet, an edit button

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-05-11 01:12pm

Right on all counts. Vader didn't know he had a daughter. Remember in Jedi: "So, you have a twin sister! Your feelings have now betrayed her, too." And also, if you read Jedi Academy Trilogy, you would remember that to find out someone can use the ofrce you have to test them or use one of those little pads that senses force ability. Or know that they come from a strong force-weilding family. At the time, Vader thought Leia was the daughter of Bail Organa who isn't particularly strong in the force.

Then why did Vader say "the force is strong with this one" in the DS1 trench? Not because he could feel any force ability, but rather because Luke was evading all the TIE laser fire... same principle as blocking the remote bolts. That wasn't Vader sensing raw Force being thrown around, more "the force MUST be strong with this one if he can dodge all these shots!"

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-05-11 01:28pm

Bugsby wrote: Then why did Vader say "the force is strong with this one" in the DS1 trench? Not because he could feel any force ability, but rather because Luke was evading all the TIE laser fire... same principle as blocking the remote bolts. That wasn't Vader sensing raw Force being thrown around, more "the force MUST be strong with this one if he can dodge all these shots!"

Actually it's later confirmed he did feel the Force through Luke and it intrigued him.

Which is why he began a manhunt to find the identity of said person.

This literally in fact it cemeted his thought about the pointlessness of Super weapons vs Jedi.

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-05-11 01:32pm

Ah. I can quote ANH and Jedi line-by-line, but Im a bit weak on Empire, so I miss these things every so often. Will have to watch it again.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-05-11 02:43pm

He detected Luke using (for lack of a better term) "Force Seeing" to aim at the exhaust port without his targetting computer.

So "using the Force" gives you away to other Force sensitives.

And Vader didn't really know he had any kids at the time of ANH. He probably was just like "whoa, this guy is using the force" when he comes up behind Luke's fighter.

Meest · Post by **Meest** » 2004-05-11 05:41pm

Remember there are alot of force sensitive people still around, like Mara Jade etc that aren't wiped out just because they have some potential. Probably just makes Vader raise an eyebrow when he encounters someone like that.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-05-11 06:29pm

According to WEG, Leia had the dormant power Lesser Force Shield.. Basically, the idea is she had the subconscious ability to protect herself from serious damage and Force powers, though not completely. This is mentioned in conjunction with Vader's mind probe, and as much as it pisses some people off, WEG is still in continuity.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2004-05-11 10:38pm

SirNitram wrote:According to WEG, Leia had the dormant power Lesser Force Shield.. Basically, the idea is she had the subconscious ability to protect herself from serious damage and Force powers, though not completely. This is mentioned in conjunction with Vader's mind probe, and as much as it pisses some people off, WEG is still in continuity.

Don't you mean WotC? I didn't find a WEG sourcebook that listed Leia as having any dormant powers, and Lesser Force Shield certainly isn't a standard force power (Control Pain fits that description), though I'd say with a name like that, it just screams of Star Wars D20.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-05-11 10:41pm

Darth Utsanomiko wrote:
SirNitram wrote:According to WEG, Leia had the dormant power Lesser Force Shield.. Basically, the idea is she had the subconscious ability to protect herself from serious damage and Force powers, though not completely. This is mentioned in conjunction with Vader's mind probe, and as much as it pisses some people off, WEG is still in continuity.
Don't you mean WotC? I didn't find a WEG sourcebook that listed Leia as having any dormant powers, and Lesser Force Shield certainly isn't a standard force power (Control Pain fits that description), though I'd say with a name like that, it just screams of Star Wars D20.

There was definately a Lesser Force Shield or Force Shield and Leia had it. Then again, it's been years and years since I saw the movie sourcebooks.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2004-05-12 02:14am

SirNitram wrote:There was definately a Lesser Force Shield or Force Shield and Leia had it. Then again, it's been years and years since I saw the movie sourcebooks.

Hrmm, must have been first edition or something, as I had just checked a couple books to confirm her stats and force powers. They simply didn't use the term Force Shield in 2nd Ed. She's listed as force sensitive and that's it.

Course it's kind of moot since it's game mechanics trying to quantify something as vague as subconcious force power useage (which WEG's SWRPG didn't have a set rule for ever iirc, just sugestions for GM judgement calls).

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-05-12 02:18am

Darth Utsanomiko wrote:
SirNitram wrote:There was definately a Lesser Force Shield or Force Shield and Leia had it. Then again, it's been years and years since I saw the movie sourcebooks.
Hrmm, must have been first edition or something, as I had just checked a couple books to confirm her stats and force powers. They simply didn't use the term Force Shield in 2nd Ed. She's listed as force sensitive and that's it.

Course it's kind of moot since it's game mechanics trying to quantify something as vague as subconcious force power useage (which WEG's SWRPG didn't have a set rule for ever iirc, just sugestions for GM judgement calls).

Well, the 'flavour' text is still canonical, and that basically described the power as a weak field of defense; It provided low-level protection from everything from weapons fire to gases to Force powers. In game terms it added +1D to your defense rolls.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2004-05-12 07:09am

SirNitram wrote:Well, the 'flavour' text is still canonical, and that basically described the power as a weak field of defense; It provided low-level protection from everything from weapons fire to gases to Force powers. In game terms it added +1D to your defense rolls.

Such as a scout trooper's holdout blaster?

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2004-05-12 03:55pm

nightmare wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Well, the 'flavour' text is still canonical, and that basically described the power as a weak field of defense; It provided low-level protection from everything from weapons fire to gases to Force powers. In game terms it added +1D to your defense rolls.
Such as a scout trooper's holdout blaster?

That shot hit the side of the bunker and the closeness of the blast burnt her arm, you knuckle-knob.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-05-12 03:58pm

Besides, Leia wasn't a Jedi at that time (though as far as I know, she never really got all the way into it in the EU), so she really didn't have any skills at all. She was just merely Force sensitive.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2004-05-12 04:51pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Besides, Leia wasn't a Jedi at that time (though as far as I know, she never really got all the way into it in the EU), so she really didn't have any skills at all. She was just merely Force sensitive.

The EU is somewhat confused on the area of Leia's power. By the start of the Zhan trilogy she's getting close teaching from Luke. Later in the crystal Star(i think) she's rebelling against her jedi teaching, by the time of the Bothan Incident (Vision of the Future) she's strong enough to take command of a warships bridge. She even resignes as Chief of State and referes to herself as a Jedi Representative, but then by the time of the NJO Leia is once again described as a not being a full Jedi or anywhere close.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2004-05-12 05:11pm

Darth Utsanomiko wrote:That shot hit the side of the bunker and the closeness of the blast burnt her arm, you knuckle-knob.

Are you sure it hit the bunker?

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2004-05-12 09:15pm

vakundok wrote:Are you sure it hit the bunker?

Do arms send a spray of sparks into the air after being hit with a blaster bolt?

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2004-05-12 09:36pm

YT300000 wrote:
vakundok wrote:Are you sure it hit the bunker?
Do arms send a spray of sparks into the air after being hit with a blaster bolt?

No fair, YT; you're supposed to answer his question soley based on his selective use of the frame right before part of the metal doorway bursts into a shower of sparks. Can't a guy ever pick and chose his evidence in peace 'round here?

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2004-05-12 09:55pm

Darth Utsanomiko wrote:
YT300000 wrote:
vakundok wrote:Are you sure it hit the bunker?
Do arms send a spray of sparks into the air after being hit with a blaster bolt?
No fair, YT; you're supposed to answer his question soley based on his selective use of the frame right before part of the metal doorway bursts into a shower of sparks. Can't a guy ever pick and chose his evidence in peace 'round here?

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-05-12 10:58pm

vakundok wrote:
Darth Utsanomiko wrote:That shot hit the side of the bunker and the closeness of the blast burnt her arm, you knuckle-knob.
Are you sure it hit the bunker?

You do realize she didn't react immediately when the visible "bolt" struck as well (for a nice long fraction of a second, in fact.) And that the body doesn't normally throw off sparks?

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2004-05-13 02:05pm

I just checked ROTJ (sp.ed) for a different reason, not this small debate, but I also watched this scene. I can confirm with 100% certainty that the blaster bolt struck the bunker on the right side. You get to see the burned hole in right after Leia was hit, two times. Although the blaster bolt makes it look like she was hit, the hole isn't even very close to her.

The blood on Han's hand is also indirect evidence tha she was hit by something else than a blaster bolt, though we don't need it. However, a "lesser force shield" might explain why she wasn't injured more?

PS. It's a regular stormtrooper, not a scout trooper. I seem to recall it was a scouttrooper in the original version, can someone confirm or deny? On a side remark, that's an impressive blaster shot, making a noticeable hole in a heavily armored bunker.

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Vader & Princess Leia

Vader & Princess Leia

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