ESB timeframe

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2004-05-18 05:07am

One thing that I've never been able to figure out is how much time did the events of ESB take place in (excuse the awkward sentence. I couldn't think of a better way to say it.) From Han's perspective it appears that only a very short time passed between the evacuation of Hoth and the escape from Bespin, yet Luke was able to go through a fairly extensive period of training during the same timeframe. Is there any official explanation for this? How long did it take for the events of ESB to transpire?

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-05-18 10:41am

What was the duration of time in the universe in which ESB took place? Um...I think it was around a month, but I don't know...

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-05-18 03:29pm

It seemed like a short time, but Bespin was in a nearby STAR system. Without a working hyperdrive...that should have taken quite a while.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-05-18 04:54pm

Basically most of the Time Luke was training, Han was sublighting along to Bespin which would be rather boring and thus wasn't shown as much.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2004-05-18 07:19pm

Hmmm, I honestly can't see the Millenium Falcon making it to Bespin only going sublight, it would have taken them years possibly decades if he did. Remember that pretty much all star systems have a few light years of distance between them and travelling at SUB lightspeed would make the trip even longer. Also remember that according to Han Bespin was "pretty out of the way but I think we can make it". indicating it was farther than the other systems they were browsing through in their computer.

The most logical scenario IMO is that they managed to squeeze one or two short bursts out their damaged hyperdrive and so it probably only took them about 1 or 2 months (as opposed to years going only sublight) to get to bespin while Luke was training.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-05-18 10:45pm

In the official screenplays book (The one with the commentary by the various writers, producers, directors that I can't name -DAMN!) Irvin Kershner said he and Lucas were deliberate in keeping time span vague in TESB. Unlike ANH, they are never specific about time.

I would suspect that at most, it took place over the course of a few days. One clue is the fact that civilians (Han, Lando) wear the same outfit. Leia changes twice; Luke once.

I think the Falcon had a backup hyperdrive. I look at it as the Star Wars version of that shitty little phony "spare tire" you get with new cars: You can use it to get where you're going, but you can't drive fast and the ride will be rough.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-05-18 10:47pm

Icehawk wrote:*snip*

That's great and all, but the movie makes it quite explicitly clear that the Hyperdrive is NOT working, if they could have made short hops (and you have no basis for this assumption) then they would have to escape the Imperials. Of course you will continue to now say that they repaired it enough to make a hop, which means you're developing this intricate scenarion in-universe totally ignoring facts.

The Hyperdrive didn't work, the final scene of the Falcon was shown in sublight accelerating away in sublight. We also have no clue as to the exact distance between Hoth and Bespin. So rather than assuming "Hm, Bespin must be too far to go in sublight even though it was established that hyperdrive was broken" it would make more sense (atleast to me, maybe I'm just crazy) to say "Hm, they went on sublight, therefore Bespin is close enough to be reached by sublight."

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-05-18 10:51pm

Elfdart wrote:I think the Falcon had a backup hyperdrive. I look at it as the Star Wars version of that shitty little phony "spare tire" you get with new cars: You can use it to get where you're going, but you can't drive fast and the ride will be rough.

And they didn't use this to escape the Imperials because? Seriously people, stop trying to invent these complex scenarios and just go with the facts. Occam's Razor and all that.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-05-18 11:17pm

According to the Vehicle Guide, a number of ships have backup hyperdrives. Lack of a full-strength hyperdrive wasn't Han's only problem. They had just lost the rear shield. Trying to flee from Imperial warships with a backup AND after losing the deflector shield would be like trying to flee from armored vehicles with a car on a "donut" (the mini-spare I described). Even if he did have enough speed (probably not) to pull away, he would get shot to pieces before he could accelerate.

Several years ago, I found out for the first time that my tire wasn't a full-sized spare when I got a flat on the highway. I made the mistake of trying to go more than 40mph and snapped the axle and ball joint.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-05-18 11:21pm

Eh, no. All he would have to do is pull the switch and be into hyperspace, regardless of the speed, and he would have been safe for the time. Slower hyperdrive != slower jump to hyperspace. JUST ACCEPT THE OBVIOUS for fuck sake...

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-05-18 11:31pm

The OBVIOUS is that there's more to a hyperspace jump than throwing a switch. It takes time, which the Falcon didn't have: No rear shield and a Star Destroyer tailgating them. That's why Han hid the ship in the first place! Once the coast was clear, he could use the backup.

According to the Vehicle Guide, the Falcon's backup is much slower than regular hyperdrive, so once Boba Fett alerted the Empire they could speed ahead and still have time for the trap.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-05-18 11:38pm

Did you even see ESB? Han had already plotted the trip and engaged the hyperdrive to have it fail. You're wrong, end of.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-05-18 11:42pm

And might I point out, he tried AND failed TWICE! They failed, hid in asteroid to fix it (why did he not switch to backup drive?) just to try AGAIN and fail. Just to put more holes in your argument.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2004-05-19 12:05am

Im betting it takes a few months.

3 things have to happen.

farmboy luke has to become close to a jedi.
han and leia have to go from frustration to warm fuzzy marriageness.
the falcon has to take a lengthy trip to another starsystem without any hyperdrive.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-05-19 12:09am

The backup is slow. The Imperial ships have fully functional hyperdrives and can determine the possible paths taken by a ship that jumps into hyperspace. Trying to flee the Imperial fleet on a backup would be like trying to outrun the police on a bad wheel. While you're sputtering along @30mph, they can race ahead (or radio ahead to other police cars) and wait for you to come to them. Even if they lose sight of you, they can cover more ground because of the better speed they have. They can also have cars stationed at the possible highway exits.

If you had bothered to watch ANH or TESB, you would know that:

1) Preparation for each hyperspace jump takes time.

2) The Falcon didn't have time. The main drive crapped out twice and the Avenger was on their tail and they had no rear shield. They couldn't risk being shot at by the Avenger.

So much for your "argument".

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-05-19 12:18am

Elfdart wrote:The backup is slow. The Imperial ships have fully functional hyperdrives and can determine the possible paths taken by a ship that jumps into hyperspace. Trying to flee the Imperial fleet on a backup would be like trying to outrun the police on a bad wheel. While you're sputtering along @30mph, they can race ahead (or radio ahead to other police cars) and wait for you to come to them. Even if they lose sight of you, they can cover more ground because of the better speed they have. They can also have cars stationed at the possible highway exits.

Hyperspace gets them out of weapons fire and they can drop out at any point to simply re-calculate. It's better than being shot to death.

1) Preparation for each hyperspace jump takes time.

Time to calculate the jump, which they had already done before pulling the switch and finding it to not work. If they could simply switch to back-up this would have been done.

Remember, TWICE they tried to jump AFTER plotting a course. I already said this and you just repeated it, ignoring the holes I put into it. Dumbass. If you want to refute it, make a proper defense rather than repeating.

2) The Falcon didn't have time. The main drive crapped out twice and the Avenger was on their tail and they had no rear shield. They couldn't risk being shot at by the Avenger.

Time for what? To switch to backup? Do you have a figure on how long it takes? Or do you mean plotting the course? If plotting, see above dumbass. If switching, they could have done it whilst attempting repairs inside the asteroid, remember they made TWO attempts, which were hours apart, to jump to hyperspace. Why would Han, a veteran of space, not think to switch to back-up in this time?

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-05-19 01:13am

1) The backup hyperdrive which you have such a hysterical reaction to is listed in official SW books. I'm not making up this piece of equipment. The relative speeds of the different drives on different ships is also part of official material.

2) In order to use the backup as you suggest, they would have to avoid being blasted by the Avenger. Here's the problem: The Falcon lost its rear shield and couldn't take a hit. When the main drive conked out again, he was forced to avoid the Avenger's main guns. 3PO told him (as you would know if you watched the movie) they couldn't take another hit. Han starts dodging. At this point, he is no longer travelling along the same trajectory as when he was about to make the jump. So yes, he would probably have to re-calculate a possible jump. But first he has to avoid being killed or caught by the Avenger. In any event, whether a ship can switch as easily from regular to backup hyperdrive as from 4th to 5th gear is a good question. If it's that easy, you might have a point. If not, you'll have to settle for calling me "dumbass" rather than arguing the issue.

3) Because the backup is so much slower, it's used only as a last resort. It's not just the hyperspace jump, but the speed of the hyperdrive that enables the Falcon to dodge Imperial craft. Han doesn't try the backup until he thinks nobody is following -because he is a veteran pilot.

4) Debate your points? You have no points. Just obnoxious flames.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-05-19 01:43am

Elfdart wrote:1) The backup hyperdrive which you have such a hysterical reaction to is listed in official SW books. I'm not making up this piece of equipment. The relative speeds of the different drives on different ships is also part of official material.

And there is no proof in canon, indeed, there is significant contradictory evidence in canon which suggests the existence of a backup hyperdrive is dubious at best. So which should we go with? The official, which says the MF should have a backup hyperdrive? Or the canon, which shows us that if the MF had a backup hyperdrive, then it would have escaped - it had two occasions to do this, and it did not. Why didn't Han put the MF into hyperspace with the backup the third time, after Death Squadron scattered in search of rebels? Plenty of time there, wouldn't you say?

2) In order to use the backup as you suggest, they would have to avoid being blasted by the Avenger. *snip*

No, in order to use the backup hyperdrive like YOU suggest, the MF would have had no less than 3 occasions! It didn't.

3) Because the backup is so much slower, it's used only as a last resort. It's not just the hyperspace jump, but the speed of the hyperdrive that enables the Falcon to dodge Imperial craft. Han doesn't try the backup until he thinks nobody is following -because he is a veteran pilot.

And yet we don't see him engage the backup hyperdrive the third and final time. Nor do we see the MF come OUT of hyperspace when it arrived at Bespin. And the MF's regular hyperdrive didn't guarantee it speed over the ISDs chasing it from Tattooine in ANH. It took Han awhile to dodge them. Whether that meant a series of micro-jumps with changes of trajectory or whether it meant that the Falcon dodged whilst in hyperspace is unknown. Even with a backup hyperdrive Han could have tried to evade the ISDs.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-05-19 02:52am

Does anyone know how fast sublight-engines go in SW? Maybe they were going FTL, but without a hyperdrive they had to deal with relativistic processes that caused the Falcon to experience only a few days and the rest of the Galaxy a few months. This seems to me like it would resolve the problems.

Don't go by anyone changing clothes. Luke only had the flightsuit and the Bespin suit, Leia didn't have any clothes on the Falcon, and Han owns precious few clothes.

Hey, anyone know if the Falcon specifically has a backup drive? I've never seen it listed on the specs.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2004-05-19 03:27am

Super-Gagme wrote:That's great and all, but the movie makes it quite explicitly clear that the Hyperdrive is NOT working, if they could have made short hops (and you have no basis for this assumption) then they would have to escape the Imperials. Of course you will continue to now say that they repaired it enough to make a hop, which means you're developing this intricate scenarion in-universe totally ignoring facts.

How is it totally ignoring the facts to assume they managed a brief hop at some point? Can YOU come up with a better explanation than mine which explains how they got to Bespin at sublight velocity?

The Hyperdrive didn't work, the final scene of the Falcon was shown in sublight accelerating away in sublight. We also have no clue as to the exact distance between Hoth and Bespin. So rather than assuming "Hm, Bespin must be too far to go in sublight even though it was established that hyperdrive was broken" it would make more sense (atleast to me, maybe I'm just crazy) to say "Hm, they went on sublight, therefore Bespin is close enough to be reached by sublight."

We have no clue as to the exact distance between hoth and Bespin, but its common sense that their are light years of distance between solar systems (can you point out an example in real in real life of any solar systems being less than a lightyear apart?). Since hyperdrives are an extremely common tech in SW it seems much more likely and logical that they coaxed a brief hop or two out of it at some point in their journey rather than just assuming that by some unexplainable miracle the Bespin system just so happened to be less than a lightyear away from Hoth (not to mention those other systems Han and Leia were considering before they chose Bespin which was said to be more out of the way then the others.)

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2004-05-19 03:39am

You know, there is that issue with time dilation. As you approach the speed of light, the time passes slower. Thus if the people aboard the Falcon felt that perhaps a few weeks went by, for the rest of the galaxy a few months would have passed.

Perhaps time dilation isn't the case here. I have an other idea for the hyperdrive. I can't prove it in any way, but I think that it would account for many things. I believe that there is a possibility that the hyperdrive motivator, which according to C-3P0 has been damaged, is tied in with the navi computer. Perhaps the damage to the hyperdrive motivator had an influence on the navi computer so that no path through hyperspace could be calculated, or rather sent from the navi computer to the hyperdrive thus making it impossible to jump to hyperspace (a kind of fail safe). Perhaps Solo was able to bypass the hyperdrive motivator manually, jumped to hyperspace and made a series of low-speed micro jumps to avoid obstacles. This kind of trip would have taken some time. Note that this malfunction was repaired on Cloud City, it had no relevence when Calrissian and co. fled Cloud City as the hyperdrive merely had been deactivated by the Imperials.

IMO TESB took place for no more than perhaps two months.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2004-05-19 03:53am

You know, there is that issue with time dilation. As you approach the speed of light, the time passes slower. Thus if the people aboard the Falcon felt that perhaps a few weeks went by, for the rest of the galaxy a few months would have passed.

Which still fails to address the issue that there are LIGHT YEARS of distance between solar systems. even the fastest sublight velocity will take years if not decades to get them anywhere.

Perhaps time dilation isn't the case here. I have an other idea for the hyperdrive. I can't prove it in any way, but I think that it would account for many things. I believe that there is a possibility that the hyperdrive motivator, which according to C-3P0 has been damaged, is tied in with the navi computer. Perhaps the damage to the hyperdrive motivator had an influence on the navi computer so that no path through hyperspace could be calculated, or rather sent from the navi computer to the hyperdrive thus making it impossible to jump to hyperspace (a kind of fail safe). Perhaps Solo was able to bypass the hyperdrive motivator manually, jumped to hyperspace and made a series of low-speed micro jumps to avoid obstacles. This kind of trip would have taken some time. Note that this malfunction was repaired on Cloud City, it had no relevence when Calrissian and co. fled Cloud City as the hyperdrive merely had been deactivated by the Imperials.

IMO TESB took place for no more than perhaps two months.

Exactly, just like I said, they probably managed a micro jump or two at some point. This would be far more likely than Bespin and the number of other systems they considered going to being less than a light year away from Hoth.

Meest · Post by **Meest** » 2004-05-19 03:57am

What you people aren't getting about the backup hyperdrive theory is that it can only be used when the coast is clear in a tactical situation. Coast is clear = can limp away, but if the Imperials were still chasing no point in making a small/slow jump just to be caught up to again. With its main hyperdrive the Falcon can literally go faster even if the ISD chased.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-05-19 09:23am

Icehawk wrote:Which still fails to address the issue that there are LIGHT YEARS of distance between solar systems.

So because solar systems are usually light years away, Bespin has to be?

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-05-19 02:25pm

Meest wrote:What you people aren't getting about the backup hyperdrive theory is that it can only be used when the coast is clear in a tactical situation. Coast is clear = can limp away, but if the Imperials were still chasing no point in making a small/slow jump just to be caught up to again. With its main hyperdrive the Falcon can literally go faster even if the ISD chased.

Did you just make that up? How would circumstances vary when you can use a hyperdrive if once a ship enters lightspeed it is untraceable?