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With all the new books out for starwars has anyone come up with figures yet for turbo lasers?
two years ago they were about 500 megatons, last I heard they were up to 200 gigatons,

it seems to fluctuate, anyone got concrete, or close to concrete, or just more than a pile of shit numbers that I can use ?

The number went up because when SW fans calculated them as part of their STvsSW debate, they tried to be conservative and used thermodynamic lower limits for the feats.

When Saxton formalized them in a official book, he cannot use a Thermodynamic Lower Limit, because that's not a Realistic Estimate. A Thermodynamic Lower Limit is chosen to be generous, and because modeling the various mechanistic factors involved will increase the complexity of the calculation to a level that would make it less repeatable (and this is supposed to be a hobby, not a science paper) by less scientifically skilled people. Nor does he have to, because he doesn't even care about Trekkies and he is writing Official.

So he tried to make a Realistic Estimate.

BTW, the estimate even 2 years ago (or whenever pre-SW2ICS is) was about 22GT per HTL. 2GT is the compromise level used in ASVS because it is enough for our needs (machine gunning down ST ships like so many pike armed footmen) and because we won't have to repeat the process of stomping down Trekkie claims that never seem to die.

I think 500MT might be the compromise level used in SB at that time or something, though not being an SBer, I can't be sure.

Thus as it stands...a 20 year old transport can do with it's quad MTL 200GTs.

Fighter craft(the Aethersprite does around 1KT)

For current ISD's?

Most likely higher for MTLs alone unless we're to assume that the Empire does nothing to upgrade power generation given the large space used by the ISDs.

With the ICS as a reference it pretty much goes like this as far as I can tell:

"low" = tens of

"high" = hundreds of

Heavy class Turbolasers = high gigaton up to low teraton range

Medium class Turbo lasers = low gigaton possibly up to high gigaton range

Light class Turbolasers = low megaton up to high megaton range

Anti-starfighter or starfighter mounted Laser cannons = low kiloton up to high kiloton range and possibly very low megaton range for heavy fighters and strike craft such as the B-Wing and K-Wing.

Omega-13 wrote:With all the new books out for starwars has anyone come up with figures yet for turbo lasers?
two years ago they were about 500 megatons, last I heard they were up to 200 gigatons,

it seems to fluctuate, anyone got concrete, or close to concrete, or just more than a pile of shit numbers that I can use ?

Slave-1's seismic charges are in the gigaton range (watch the AOTC asteroid sequence or read the SW2ICS), and Slave-1 would have no chance against an ISD. Do you seriously think that an ISD's weapons are less powerful than the ordnance of a one-man patrol ship?

Darth Wong wrote:

Omega-13 wrote:With all the new books out for starwars has anyone come up with figures yet for turbo lasers?
two years ago they were about 500 megatons, last I heard they were up to 200 gigatons,

it seems to fluctuate, anyone got concrete, or close to concrete, or just more than a pile of shit numbers that I can use ?

Slave-1's seismic charges are in the gigaton range (watch the AOTC asteroid sequence or read the SW2ICS), and Slave-1 would have no chance against an ISD. Do you seriously think that an ISD's weapons are less powerful than the ordnance of a one-man patrol ship?

Didn't suggest that, just curious on numbers, now i have another question,
was the MF hit by anti starfighter weapons when they were running from Hoth? or LTL's? or
its hard to tell

Didn't suggest that, just curious on numbers, now i have another question,
was the MF hit by anti starfighter weapons when they were running from Hoth? or LTL's? or
its hard to tell

They were either fired uppon by heavy anti starfighter lasers or Light Turbolasers which as I mentioned are likely in the low to high megaton range. Remember that the Tie Fighters never once threatened to bring down the shields of the Millenium Falcon but the Stardestroyer managed to completely drop their rear sheilds in a short amount of time. This clearly shows their is a marked difference in firepower between fighter weapons and the ones used on the Stardestroyer.

TL power is going to vary depending on the gun. I seriously hope no one expects the little manned TL we see gunners firing in ANH to compare to the TLs on a Dreadnaught, which are the single biggest ones we've seen yet.*

That said, power should range from the low TT level for the large guns to the low KT level for PD guns. I'd expect most TLs to be in the triple digit MT range.

*Going by the picture in the Essential chronology, we see one and it is just massive. It looks like the Dreadnaught now follows the movie design idea of a few large TLs and a lot of little ones now instead of the old RPG shit stats.

Can you post that picture, Ender? I'm curious to see it.

McC wrote:Can you post that picture, Ender? I'm curious to see it.

My books and scanner are in Chicago, I'm in Norfolk.

Just go to Barne's and Noble and flip through it. It's a shot of the battle of Nar Shadda, and it shows that a single jagnormous turbolaser occupies a single blister, and that the blister covers are retractable as a result. It's a cool shot, explains how we don't see as many guns on the ISD as we should (they are covered by retractable openings), shows that the artist was going for the movie design ethos instead of RPG shit, and illustrates how Dreadnaughts could still be considered a threat in the time of Thrawn - concentration of guns that cover most angles with massive weapons. Gives it great punch.

OK. If I can get to the Pru this weekend, I'll do that. Thanks

Not to mention with that kind of design ethos one can clearly see why the local/sectorial defense forces and Planetary Security Forces classed it a "Heavy Cruiser." Definitely has big clusters of heavy guns, especially for its size. Nothing else has guns like the Dreadnought under the size of the ISD.

Ender wrote:

McC wrote:Can you post that picture, Ender? I'm curious to see it.

My books and scanner are in Chicago, I'm in Norfolk.

Just go to Barne's and Noble and flip through it. It's a shot of the battle of Nar Shadda, and it shows that a single jagnormous turbolaser occupies a single blister, and that the blister covers are retractable as a result. It's a cool shot, explains how we don't see as many guns on the ISD as we should (they are covered by retractable openings), shows that the artist was going for the movie design ethos instead of RPG shit, and illustrates how Dreadnaughts could still be considered a threat in the time of Thrawn - concentration of guns that cover most angles with massive weapons. Gives it great punch.

Interestingly enough in "Survivors Quest" it was noted that Dreadnaughts have point defense guns (even anti-meteor laser cannons as well as ion cannons).

On the other hand, I'm not sure I recall ISD's having 'retractable turrets" and in some cases it would be hard to argue such. (for the most part they seem to be either internal or simply too small to see against the larger backdrop. In the "out of movie' context, they simply never put many actual guns ON the ship. Anyone who has seen the model can tell this.)

Connor MacLeod wrote:

Ender wrote:

McC wrote:Can you post that picture, Ender? I'm curious to see it.

My books and scanner are in Chicago, I'm in Norfolk.

Just go to Barne's and Noble and flip through it. It's a shot of the battle of Nar Shadda, and it shows that a single jagnormous turbolaser occupies a single blister, and that the blister covers are retractable as a result. It's a cool shot, explains how we don't see as many guns on the ISD as we should (they are covered by retractable openings), shows that the artist was going for the movie design ethos instead of RPG shit, and illustrates how Dreadnaughts could still be considered a threat in the time of Thrawn - concentration of guns that cover most angles with massive weapons. Gives it great punch.

Interestingly enough in "Survivors Quest" it was noted that Dreadnaughts have point defense guns (even anti-meteor laser cannons as well as ion cannons).

Yep, and recent publications about ISDs list them as having 40 PD batteries (for a total of 200 point defense guns as Starships of the Galaxy said a battery is 5 guns). Apparently the ICS is having an impact on the very stuff it was correcting.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I recall ISD's having 'retractable turrets" and in some cases it would be hard to argue such. (for the most part they seem to be either internal or simply too small to see against the larger backdrop. In the "out of movie' context, they simply never put many actual guns ON the ship. Anyone who has seen the model can tell this.)

The retractable bit is the rationalizatrion for that. We know out of universe they didn't put that many guns on it. We know in universe it has a huge number of guns. Rationalization I've seen tossed out is the possibility that they are retractable. That picture would support that idea.

Had a look at the picture yesterday -- one question, though: where would you stash the retractable guns on the ISD? I mean, surely there's plenty of surface area and volume, but the dreadnaught has pretty noticable weapon blisters, while the ISD has no such blisters or bumps of any kind.

Perhaps in the brim trenches or in between the terraces on the command tower. There's enough "stuff" there on the model for smaller turbolaser ports to be accomodated.

I suppose...do we ever see TL blasts coming from the surface of the ISDs rather than from the trenches or superstructure areas?

Ender wrote: Yep, and recent publications about ISDs list them as having 40 PD batteries (for a total of 200 point defense guns as Starships of the Galaxy said a battery is 5 guns). Apparently the ICS is having an impact on the very stuff it was correcting.

Actually, ISDs had poitn defense guns as of the second edition SWRPG (which came out when episode 2 did). As for the "5 gun battery" bit, I should point out that it was treating each separate gun as a battery (so it had 60 guns according to WOTC, linked into 12 5-gun batteries.) WEG treated them the opposite: 60 five-gun batteries composed of two dual turrets and one single. (same with ion cannons.)

Interesting to mention though that the ANH novelization mentions "dozens" of heavy weapons emplacements for the Devastator, while the script metions the Devastator being capable of firing "hundreds" of laser blasts at the Tantive IV.

And of course, way back in the HTTE trilogy Thrawn had ISDs mounting laser cannons (the Chimaera fired a "sandstorm" of laser bolts at Luke's X-wing when he escaped the interidctor trap, just prior to meeting Karrde and Jade) I think he reinforced that in the Hand of Thrawn duology too (I do know he tended to suggest Star Destroyers carry torpedo launchers, which is also implied by canon extrapolation from the Death STar's armaments from the novelization and Radio Drama.)

Apparently Star Destroyers carry quite a diverse selection of armaments, both in kinds (a beam weapon, a bolt/pulse weapon, ion cannons, projectile/missile weapons, tractor beams) and scale (light, medium, heavy)

The retractable bit is the rationalizatrion for that. We know out of universe they didn't put that many guns on it. We know in universe it has a huge number of guns. Rationalization I've seen tossed out is the possibility that they are retractable. That picture would support that idea.

I dont quite see how its usually a problem, since we rarely see Star Destrroyers close up enough to notice any sort of apparent guns in the movie.