StarDestroyer.Net BBS

What do you think would be the factory weapon compliment of

a) The Firespray class patrol ship.

b) The YT-1300 class freighter.

Stock armament for a YT-1300 was a single dual laser cannon in a top turret.

The Episode 2 ICS says that the Firespray only came with the two 600 gigajoule blaster cannons that we see attached to the lower hull.

Jango added the missiles, the mines, and the two fast firing laser cannons that shot at Obi Wan's fighter in the asteroid chase. He also refined the targeting of the original blaster cannons and gave them variable firepower.

Icehawk wrote:The Episode 2 ICS says that the Firespray only came with the two 600 gigajoule blaster cannons that we see attached to the lower hull.

Jango added the missiles, the mines, and the two fast firing laser cannons that shot at Obi Wan's fighter in the asteroid chase. He also refined the targeting of the original blaster cannons and gave them variable firepower.

Nope the E2:ICS says they are the only thing that remains of the orginal armament. I checked.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Stock armament for a YT-1300 was a single dual laser cannon in a top turret.

what is your evidence?

X-Wing Alliance for one, as the standard YT-1300 in the game had only the upper turret with two laser cannons and twin warhead launchers between the mandibles.

Lord Revan wrote: Nope the E2:ICS says they are the only thing that remains of the orginal armament. I checked.

Which begs the question of what else it could have possibly had. Their are only lasers, blasters, ion cannons and missiles to chose from and the ICS says that Jango gave it the missiles, the mines and the 2 laser cannons. This only leaves room for an ion cannon and the only source which points to this is the OT ICS which shows Boba Fett's Slave 1 armed with one (he replaced the 2 lasers from Episode 2 with it).

To me the only logical thing the Firespray could have originally had on top of its two blasters would have been an ion cannon (no evidence of this though). It was originally just a simple patrol ship after all.

Icehawk wrote:

Lord Revan wrote: Nope the E2:ICS says they are the only thing that remains of the orginal armament. I checked.

Which begs the question of what else it could have possibly had. Their are only lasers, blasters, ion cannons and missiles to chose from and the ICS says that Jango gave it the missiles, the mines and the 2 laser cannons. This only leaves room for an ion cannon and the only source which points to this is the OT ICS which shows Boba Fett's Slave 1 armed with one (he replaced the 2 lasers from Episode 2 with it).

To me the only logical thing the Firespray could have originally had on top of its two blasters would have been an ion cannon (no evidence of this though). It was originally just a simple patrol ship after all.

assuming that Slave I was up specs when Jango took it.

X-Wing Alliance armamen for Firespay is

twin lasers (the tail guns)
2 standard warhead launchers
CM system

so if these specs are true, then this what I think Jango did

1. replaced orginal warhead launchers with lasers (mid-ship guns)
2. added a special missile laucher (tail launcher)
3. replaced the CM system with a minelayer

Executor32 wrote:X-Wing Alliance for one, as the standard YT-1300 in the game had only the upper turret with two laser cannons and twin warhead launchers between the mandibles.

standard YT-1300 also doesn't have the big sensor dish, so the Falcon sicks out like sore thumb. That has no logic at all since it's last thing that Han would want.

Ultra-powerful sensors is always a good thing if you're a smuggler.

Icehawk wrote:Which begs the question of what else it could have possibly had. Their are only lasers, blasters, ion cannons and missiles to chose from and the ICS says that Jango gave it the missiles, the mines and the 2 laser cannons. This only leaves room for an ion cannon and the only source which points to this is the OT ICS which shows Boba Fett's Slave 1 armed with one (he replaced the 2 lasers from Episode 2 with it).

To me the only logical thing the Firespray could have originally had on top of its two blasters would have been an ion cannon (no evidence of this though). It was originally just a simple patrol ship after all.

From how I see what the AOTC ICS has to say about the Slave 1, it means that the tail blasters is the only unconcealed weapon remaining from the stock design, which means that the stock design could have quite happily included external laser cannons.

Slartibartfast wrote:Ultra-powerful sensors is always a good thing if you're a smuggler.

Not if they make you conspicuous and prevents you from safely approaching any patrolled planet.

Lord Revan wrote:

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Stock armament for a YT-1300 was a single dual laser cannon in a top turret.

what is your evidence?

WEG's listings for a stock YT-1300. I would assume that WotC's listings said the same.

Lord Revan wrote:

Executor32 wrote:X-Wing Alliance for one, as the standard YT-1300 in the game had only the upper turret with two laser cannons and twin warhead launchers between the mandibles.

standard YT-1300 also doesn't have the big sensor dish, so the Falcon sicks out like sore thumb. That has no logic at all since it's last thing that Han would want.

There are millions of YT-1300s in existance at the very least, many just as modified as the Falcon and some even more so. Solo is just fine.

I assume Han didn't completely re-engineer the entire central core to accommodate a ventral turret, so I'm guessing the YT-1300 was designed with flexibility and upgradablility in mind to allow several "dealer options" (and aftermarket mods) like the second quad cannon, sensor dish, etc.

Galvatron wrote:I assume Han didn't completely re-engineer the entire central core to accommodate a ventral turret, so I'm guessing the YT-1300 was designed with flexibility and upgradablility in mind to allow several "dealer options" (and aftermarket mods) like the second quad cannon, sensor dish, etc.

This seems most likely to me... the Essential Guide to V&V states that Corellian Engineering Corporation's policy with its ships is to make them capable of being modified extensively from factory-standard. While this probably wouldn't apply to the heavy freighters, I wouldn't be too surprised if it went for the fighting ships and small freighters like the MF.

While I don't know about KDY, it would make sense that they'd make some categories of ships capable of modification; for example, the Firespray is a "system patrol" (think police car) ship, which means that (possibly, and as we've seen) extra weapons could be added for heavily-trafficked systems, while for backwater systems only one Firespray with the as-issued armaments would be necessary.

Makes sense to me, anyway...

Makes me think, why mission-specific weaponry is so rare in Star Wars ships. In real life, as well as many computer space games (Wing Commander, Elite) there are several ways to customize fighters ranging from swapping guns to having 2 or 3 different types of missiles at once, all exchangeable. But most ships, privately owned or otherwise seem to be mostly stuck with the default configuration. Why couldn't I, for instance, take an X-Wing and easily replace two of the wing cannons with compatible Ion guns? To do so would mean some major redesign of the model, a new model, or hundreds of hours of customization á la Falcon (IF even possible).

Slartibartfast wrote:Makes me think, why mission-specific weaponry is so rare in Star Wars ships. In real life, as well as many computer space games (Wing Commander, Elite) there are several ways to customize fighters ranging from swapping guns to having 2 or 3 different types of missiles at once, all exchangeable. But most ships, privately owned or otherwise seem to be mostly stuck with the default configuration. Why couldn't I, for instance, take an X-Wing and easily replace two of the wing cannons with compatible Ion guns? To do so would mean some major redesign of the model, a new model, or hundreds of hours of customization á la Falcon (IF even possible).

I hardly think this is an issue in SW; they doubtless have either different guidance systems or a composite for their warheads, and fighter ion cannons are only useful for one thing. Why would anyone WANT to use them, when you can disable ships with regular blaster fire anyway? By having ions, especially mostly ions, you can't kill anyone. All their weapons are based on blaster/TL tech; there is no scope for 'different' weapons or customisations, just different scales and mountings. I mean, who wouldn't strip out the YT-1300 forward cargo bay and mount a pair of light TLs?

The Elite customisation is just lame; no overhead, no requirements for firecontrol or guidance, just throw it in the hold lol

Stark wrote:The Elite customisation is just lame; no overhead, no requirements for firecontrol or guidance, just throw it in the hold lol

That's Elite 2 and afterwards, actually, but yeah, it's kinda lame. Using mass is also kinda lame for equipment limits specially in outer space. (not that it even affects your speed)

But I see what you're saying, still, you have an Y-Wing with two lasers and two ions, why can't you have an X-wing with 2 and 2?

Slartibartfast wrote: That's Elite 2 and afterwards, actually, but yeah, it's kinda lame. Using mass is also kinda lame for equipment limits specially in outer space. (not that it even affects your speed)

It certainly wasn't meant to hold up to scrutiny! But fully loaded and empty your delta-v was the same... sad sad sad

Slartibartfast wrote:But I see what you're saying, still, you have an Y-Wing with two lasers and two ions, why can't you have an X-wing with 2 and 2?

A pox on ye and ye foolish 'fighter ion cannons'!! Bleeding Y-wing roof guns point down a bit, they're useless in dogfights! Aside from computer game crap-itude, why would a fighter even WANT ion guns? To 'short out the force field'? To 'disable the escaping frieghter'? BAH I say. Can do that just as well with blasters. Next you'll be saying they've got blue bolts!

Lord Revan wrote:

Executor32 wrote:X-Wing Alliance for one, as the standard YT-1300 in the game had only the upper turret with two laser cannons and twin warhead launchers between the mandibles.

standard YT-1300 also doesn't have the big sensor dish, so the Falcon sicks out like sore thumb. That has no logic at all since it's last thing that Han would want.

Yeah because recognition of starships in space is limited to short-range visual glances. And Solo acquired a 1 of a kind dish. Right.

Stark wrote:

Slartibartfast wrote: That's Elite 2 and afterwards, actually, but yeah, it's kinda lame. Using mass is also kinda lame for equipment limits specially in outer space. (not that it even affects your speed)

It certainly wasn't meant to hold up to scrutiny! But fully loaded and empty your delta-v was the same... sad sad sad

Depends on your thrust/mass ratio. If accel is limited not by thrust, but compensator capacity (Honorverse anybody?), added mass from cargo /equipment isn't going to mak much of a difference.

Slartibartfast wrote:But I see what you're saying, still, you have an Y-Wing with two lasers and two ions, why can't you have an X-wing with 2 and 2?

A pox on ye and ye foolish 'fighter ion cannons'!! Bleeding Y-wing roof guns point down a bit, they're useless in dogfights!

By that argument the Apache shouldn't be able to use its gun without shooting it's own nose off, what with the gun pointing upwards in neutral. It's a turreted gun. How about it's moveable?
Leaving alone the fact that we know SW guns can fire off-axis.

Aside from computer game crap-itude, why would a fighter even WANT ion guns? To 'short out the force field'? To 'disable the escaping frieghter'? BAH I say. Can do that just as well with blasters.

Brilliant idea. Shoot out the engines of a ship you want to capture. And how about there's someone aboard you'd rather NOT die from asphyxiation, what with you poking holes in the hull? Let's not mention the things that might go kablooeee if you hit them with Blaster fire...
Does EVERY starfighter need ions? Hell no. But they're certainly not useless.

Which does not mean that customisation need be as easy as Slarty wants it to be. Should it be technically possible to put two ion cannon on an X-Wing? Propably.
Does this mean it should be as easy as in Elite/Privateer etc? HELL NO.
Foe all we know, switching lasers for ions requires extensive refurbishing of the supportive equipment, they may require a completely different type of 'ammunition' (some liquid as opposed to Tibanna gas or s. th.) ...

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Yeah because recognition of starships in space is limited to short-range visual glances. And Solo acquired a 1 of a kind dish. Right.

Of course. It is after all common knowledge that parabolic antennae are not used anywhere else.

Oh wait...

Batman wrote:

Stark wrote:

Slartibartfast wrote: That's Elite 2 and afterwards, actually, but yeah, it's kinda lame. Using mass is also kinda lame for equipment limits specially in outer space. (not that it even affects your speed)

It certainly wasn't meant to hold up to scrutiny! But fully loaded and empty your delta-v was the same... sad sad sad

Depends on your thrust/mass ratio. If accel is limited not by thrust, but compensator capacity (Honorverse anybody?), added mass from cargo /equipment isn't going to mak much of a difference.

WHAT? Of course acceleration is limited by thrust! Increasing mas WILL lower acceleration if thrust remains the same; and you're not adding extra engines. The MADNESS! And in many cases we're talking going from about 400tons to 2,500 tons. But that won't change accel, no way...

Batman wrote:

Slartibartfast wrote:But I see what you're saying, still, you have an Y-Wing with two lasers and two ions, why can't you have an X-wing with 2 and 2?

A pox on ye and ye foolish 'fighter ion cannons'!! Bleeding Y-wing roof guns point down a bit, they're useless in dogfights!

By that argument the Apache shouldn't be able to use its gun without shooting it's own nose off, what with the gun pointing upwards in neutral. It's a turreted gun. How about it's moveable?
Leaving alone the fact that we know SW guns can fire off-axis.

LOL Unless the whole roof structure is movable, its not like the pintle mounted apache gun at all. However, the guns may be articulated at the mid-point; but it seems to me that there's no turning base for them. But lets pretend we don't need any evidence or anything. And off axis is one thing; deliberately pointing your guns the wrong way is still stupid.

Do SW guns have to be straight? The roof guns don't appear to be straight for their entire length.

Batman wrote:

Aside from computer game crap-itude, why would a fighter even WANT ion guns? To 'short out the force field'? To 'disable the escaping frieghter'? BAH I say. Can do that just as well with blasters.

Brilliant idea. Shoot out the engines of a ship you want to capture. And how about there's someone aboard you'd rather NOT die from asphyxiation, what with you poking holes in the hull? Let's not mention the things that might go kablooeee if you hit them with Blaster fire...
Does EVERY starfighter need ions? Hell no. But they're certainly not useless.

Which does not mean that customisation need be as easy as Slarty wants it to be. Should it be technically possible to put two ion cannon on an X-Wing? Propably.
Does this mean it should be as easy as in Elite/Privateer etc? HELL NO.
Foe all we know, switching lasers for ions requires extensive refurbishing of the supportive equipment, they may require a completely different type of 'ammunition' (some liquid as opposed to Tibanna gas or s. th.) ...

You've missed the point. Its not that easy because Elite/Privateer are both LAUGHABLY UNREALISTIC. Comparing one stupid game to another teaches us nothing about refitting weapons. And I point you at TPM (maybe you've heard of it) where they were firing at the yacht with their regular guns to disable it? Indeed, this is one of the few places where variable power levels would be useful; and I'm sorry, but someone you want to capture could just destroy the ship if you disabled it; the lame game-ness of disabled ships with important documents/people/technology waiting patiently for you to board is just that - game lameness. Ever heard of the Tantive IV?

'Ion cannons all about' is a brainbug. Either that, or GL doesn't know what he's doing? lol

Stark wrote:

Batman wrote:

Stark wrote: It certainly wasn't meant to hold up to scrutiny! But fully loaded and empty your delta-v was the same... sad sad sad

Depends on your thrust/mass ratio. If accel is limited not by thrust, but compensator capacity (Honorverse anybody?), added mass from cargo /equipment isn't going to mak much of a difference.

WHAT? Of course acceleration is limited by thrust! Increasing mas WILL lower acceleration if thrust remains the same; and you're not adding extra engines. The MADNESS! And in many cases we're talking going from about 400tons to 2,500 tons. But that won't change accel, no way...

I have, apparently, not made myself clear. Changes in mass will affect accelleration only if accelleration is limited by available thrust. If your ship can accellerate at 250,000 g but your accelleration compensator can only handle 750, an increase in mass even of several orders of magnitude will NOT affect available accelleration.
Wether or not any of this applies to Elite 2 is of course up for grabs because I can't recall the accleration rates or if they had compensators in the first place.

Stark wrote:

Batman wrote:

A pox on ye and ye foolish 'fighter ion cannons'!! Bleeding Y-wing roof guns point down a bit, they're useless in dogfights!

By that argument the Apache shouldn't be able to use its gun without shooting it's own nose off, what with the gun pointing upwards in neutral. It's a turreted gun. How about it's moveable?
Leaving alone the fact that we know SW guns can fire off-axis.

LOL Unless the whole roof structure is movable, its not like the pintle mounted apache gun at all.

Of course not. My point was that where the gun is pointed in travel position means exactlyjack shit.

However, the guns may be articulated at the mid-point; but it seems to me that there's no turning base for them.
But lets pretend we don't need any evidence or anything.

The official EGVV says its a turret. So IIRC does the EU. Do you have visuals that show it CAN'T be?
Unless you're claiming SW guns can't be fired off-axis

And off axis is one thing; deliberately pointing your guns the wrong way is still stupid.

Where you point your gun in transit configuration is totally irrelevant.
Unless you have screenshots showing them being fired that way...

Batman wrote:

Aside from computer game crap-itude, why would a fighter even WANT ion guns? To 'short out the force field'? To 'disable the escaping frieghter'? BAH I say. Can do that just as well with blasters.

Brilliant idea. Shoot out the engines of a ship you want to capture. And how about there's someone aboard you'd rather NOT die from asphyxiation, what with you poking holes in the hull? Let's not mention the things that might go kablooeee if you hit them with Blaster fire...
Does EVERY starfighter need ions? Hell no. But they're certainly not useless.
Which does not mean that customisation need be as easy as Slarty wants it to be. Should it be technically possible to put two ion cannon on an X-Wing? Propably.
Does this mean it should be as easy as in Elite/Privateer etc? HELL NO.
Foe all we know, switching lasers for ions requires extensive refurbishing of the supportive equipment, they may require a completely different type of 'ammunition' (some liquid as opposed to Tibanna gas or s. th.) ...

You've missed the point. Its not that easy because Elite/Privateer are both LAUGHABLY UNREALISTIC. Comparing one stupid game to another teaches us nothing about refitting weapons.

HELLO? I AGREE!!! That's why I said it's propably NOT THAT EASY???

And I point you at TPM (maybe you've heard of it) where they were firing at the yacht with their regular guns to disable it?

Yes. Your point being? OF COURSE you can disable a ship with lasers. Why should you WANT to if there's another option? Like,maybe, taking it intact?
And that's assuming the TradeFed ships had ion guns in the first place.

Indeed, this is one of the few places where variable power levels would be useful; and I'm sorry, but someone you want to capture could just destroy the ship if you disabled it;

Because everybody is always prepared to blow the ship to hell to prevent capture.
NTM that they can do THE EXACT SAME THING when you disable them with lasers...

the lame game-ness of disabled ships with important documents/people/technology waiting patiently for you to board is just that - game lameness. Ever heard of the Tantive IV?

I dimly remember the name. I also remember her always staying BELOW the ISD where to my knowledge she'd be out of the field of fire of the ISD's ion cannon (unless some smart captain got the brilliant idea to roll the ship but since he didn't oh well...)

Batman wrote:

Stark wrote:

Slartibartfast wrote: That's Elite 2 and afterwards, actually, but yeah, it's kinda lame. Using mass is also kinda lame for equipment limits specially in outer space. (not that it even affects your speed)

It certainly wasn't meant to hold up to scrutiny! But fully loaded and empty your delta-v was the same... sad sad sad

Depends on your thrust/mass ratio. If accel is limited not by thrust, but compensator capacity (Honorverse anybody?), added mass from cargo /equipment isn't going to mak much of a difference.

In which case I could use volume or something.