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When Jan Dodonna said the Death Star had "greater firepower than half the starfleet", is it ever expressly mentioned he was talking about the Imperial fleet? It struck me that the Rebel fleet would be a better example, as Rebel pilots wouldbe more familiar with their own side's capabilities.

Don't mistake this for any sort of argumentative belief, it's just a notion that's surfaced in my sugar-addled mind.

Half the Rebel starfleet would have been nothing compared to half to Imperial starfleet. Would it have made them shit their pants thinking about sending most of their good pilots against that? I think not.

"the Starfleet" is more easily associated with the Empire than the Rebellion. In the conference at the Death Star, it's referred to as "dangerous to your Starfleet ... not to this battlestation."

There's no canonical reference to imply that the Rebels referred to their vessels as "the starfleet".

IMO.

Cockknocker wrote:When Jan Dodonna said the Death Star had "greater firepower than half the starfleet", is it ever expressly mentioned he was talking about the Imperial fleet? It struck me that the Rebel fleet would be a better example, as Rebel pilots wouldbe more familiar with their own side's capabilities.

That requires the Rebels to
a)have a sizeable fleet by then (which begs the question why they attacked with a piddly 30 or so starfighters), and
b)this fleet being properly organized ('the Starfleet', IMHO, indicates an actual structured organization instead of merely any collection of ships like 'our forces' or 'our fleet' might have)

Well, I do agree in principle that he's talking about the Imps, I was just wondering if it had been discussed before.

Two Things, though:

a) The size of the Rebel fleet would have no bearing on the attack on the DS1, as the capital ships would just get blasted, whilst being unable to injure the DS1 back (though of course they'd have had a lot more fighters)

b) I believe that the rebels did have a large and very well organised fleet, but one that was spread thinly and hidden throughout the galaxy to help prevent detection and destruction. (though the 'evidence' for this is from WEG sources, which may of course have been refuted many times over).

Cockknocker wrote:Well, I do agree in principle that he's talking about the Imps, I was just wondering if it had been discussed before.

Two Things, though:

a) The size of the Rebel fleet would have no bearing on the attack on the DS1, as the capital ships would just get blasted, whilst being unable to injure the DS1 back (though of course they'd have had a lot more fighters)

Actually with the plans Dodonna and the rest would've seen a Cap ship[ assualt was pointless given how many TL that beast is likely to hold.

b) I believe that the rebels did have a large and very well organised fleet, but one that was spread thinly and hidden throughout the galaxy to help prevent detection and destruction. (though the 'evidence' for this is from WEG sources, which may of course have been refuted many times over).

Actually they probably didn't. Endor is a good show of a nearly all or nothing force, and half the firepower of that would not have made a former Imperial/Republic officer that Dodonna was to shit in his pants.

Minor hijack here, relating to fleet size and whatnot. What is it when Han Says "That's impossible, it would take a thousand ships with more firepower than I've ever-" *Beeping from tractor beam alarm*

Was he just ignorant?

Or..

I get it, I'm thinking incorrectly, a BDZ is hardly fragmenting the planet into bite-sized chunks and hurling them into the far reaches of space...that probably would take a thousand ships, huh?

Chardok wrote:Minor hijack here, relating to fleet size and whatnot. What is it when Han Says "That's impossible, it would take a thousand ships with more firepower than I've ever-" *Beeping from tractor beam alarm*

Was he just ignorant?

Or..

I get it, I'm thinking incorrectly, a BDZ is hardly fragmenting the planet into bite-sized chunks and hurling them into the far reaches of space...that probably would take a thousand ships, huh?

Hyperbole.

He may have never known the BDZ procedure and seeing a planet turned to small kibbles and bits is something that the SW universe had yet to see.

Sure the power is there but think of what the average man thought of the Atom Bomb.

Cockknocker wrote:When Jan Dodonna said the Death Star had "greater firepower than half the starfleet", is it ever expressly mentioned he was talking about the Imperial fleet? It struck me that the Rebel fleet would be a better example, as Rebel pilots wouldbe more familiar with their own side's capabilities.

Don't mistake this for any sort of argumentative belief, it's just a notion that's surfaced in my sugar-addled mind.

The Star Wars Trilogy Arcade game says "the Death Star is heavily shielded and carries a firepower greater than half the Alliance starfleet."

As an arcade game, it ranks very low as evidence (it has ISD's heavy guns firing glowy blob things that can be shot down by fighter lasers). So take it for whatever you will.

IIRC i remeber a reference, it may have been the novelisation, stating that the Rebels Capital ships had left the Yavin system once they knew the Death Star was on approach. What was left in Yavin was the last few stragglers. However we know that there was no Mon Cal Fleet in the Alliance untill after Yavin.

Chardok wrote:Minor hijack here, relating to fleet size and whatnot. What is it when Han Says "That's impossible, it would take a thousand ships with more firepower than I've ever-" *Beeping from tractor beam alarm*

Was he just ignorant?

Or..

I get it, I'm thinking incorrectly, a BDZ is hardly fragmenting the planet into bite-sized chunks and hurling them into the far reaches of space...that probably would take a thousand ships, huh?

IIRC, someone on this board figured out a while ago that it would take ~500 ISDs to annihilate a planet like the Death Star did.

EDIT: It would take them an hour.

EDIT2: According to the calcs anyway.

The Starfleet is the canonical term for the Imperial Navy; specifically the Starfleet is the actually combat ships and fighting force of the Imperial Navy, the navy being the attached administrative, logistical, and bureacratic organ which makes those combatants into a fighting force.

However, Han Solo remarks that in the OT novelisations that a formation of Star Destroyers appeared to be at least "a starfleet" if I remember correctly (Publius brought this to my attention and may feel free to correct me if I totally screwed up this reference). Which implies that a starfleet can refer to a general naval unit within the Imperial Navy as well.

However, the capital s Starfleet does in fact refer to the fighting ships of the Imperial Navy.

YT300000 wrote:

Chardok wrote:Minor hijack here, relating to fleet size and whatnot. What is it when Han Says "That's impossible, it would take a thousand ships with more firepower than I've ever-" *Beeping from tractor beam alarm*

Was he just ignorant?

Or..

I get it, I'm thinking incorrectly, a BDZ is hardly fragmenting the planet into bite-sized chunks and hurling them into the far reaches of space...that probably would take a thousand ships, huh?

IIRC, someone on this board figured out a while ago that it would take ~500 ISDs to annihilate a planet like the Death Star did.

EDIT: It would take them an hour.

EDIT2: According to the calcs anyway.

What the fuck are you talking about? I've never heard that. The Alderaan lower limit is at least a dozen orders of magnitude greater than that of a BDZ. Post proof or retract, please.

Lord Pounder wrote:IIRC i remeber a reference, it may have been the novelisation, stating that the Rebels Capital ships had left the Yavin system once they knew the Death Star was on approach. What was left in Yavin was the last few stragglers. However we know that there was no Mon Cal Fleet in the Alliance untill after Yavin.

Well the canon (novelisation) would override that ("we know now"--for which I'd like a source, by the way), wouldn't it? The X-Wing game's story, retold in The Farlander Papers (and indisputably official for those of you still not getting the hint that game plots are as legit as any novel or comic) confirms Mon Calamari cruisers in the Rebellion as of before Yavin.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:What the fuck are you talking about? I've never heard that. The Alderaan lower limit is at least a dozen orders of magnitude greater than that of a BDZ. Post proof or retract, please.

I can't post any proof. I don't even know what forum it was in, let alone thread. I just remember seeing it here a short time after I joined (over a year ago).

Ghost Rider wrote:

Chardok wrote:Minor hijack here, relating to fleet size and whatnot. What is it when Han Says "That's impossible, it would take a thousand ships with more firepower than I've ever-" *Beeping from tractor beam alarm*

Was he just ignorant?

Or..

I get it, I'm thinking incorrectly, a BDZ is hardly fragmenting the planet into bite-sized chunks and hurling them into the far reaches of space...that probably would take a thousand ships, huh?

Hyperbole.

He may have never known the BDZ procedure and seeing a planet turned to small kibbles and bits is something that the SW universe had yet to see.

Sure the power is there but think of what the average man thought of the Atom Bomb.

during the han solo trilogy, nal shaddar is almost bdzed. han was the messenger boy, and knew what it was.

Enforcer Talen wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:
Hyperbole.

He may have never known the BDZ procedure and seeing a planet turned to small kibbles and bits is something that the SW universe had yet to see.

Sure the power is there but think of what the average man thought of the Atom Bomb.

during the han solo trilogy, nal shaddar is almost bdzed. han was the messenger boy, and knew what it was.

Was it BDZ by an imperial order or a bunch of ships going at it, sicne these are two completely different things.

And this by no means discounts the fact that the statement was a hyperbole.

Ghost Rider wrote:Was it BDZ by an imperial order or a bunch of ships going at it, sicne these are two completely different things.

And this by no means discounts the fact that the statement was a hyperbole.

IIRC it was by order, though whether Han knew that or not I'm not sure (he knew they were attacking and whatnot, but don't know if "BDZ" was actually brought up with hima round).

Cockknocker wrote:It struck me that the Rebel fleet would be a better example, as Rebel pilots wouldbe more familiar with their own side's capabilities.

Acutally an organization like the Rebellion would want to keep information like its fleet strength secret from personal like fighter pilots, there on the frontlines and thus prone to capture. And it must be assumed that any information a captured person has will fall into the enemy's hands. The strength of Imperial forces is probably much better known as it has little need to keep its numbers secret, and a fair number of Rebel personal are former Imperials to boot. Only special projects like the Death Star would need any special secrecy when the Empire has such a huge advantage, and even then the reason would be political as much as military.

a fair number of Rebel personal are former Imperials to boot.

Of course! The missing piece of the puzzle. Thanks.[/quote]

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The X-Wing game's story, retold in The Farlander Papers (and indisputably official for those of you still not getting the hint that game plots are as legit as any novel or comic) confirms Mon Calamari cruisers in the Rebellion as of before Yavin.

Additional info on the Mon Cal´s involvement from the start, could come from Ep. III. There is a Mon Cal senator present during several meetings between senators who are said to form the beginnings of the Rebellion.

Just a side-question, were there any other species/organizations building capitalships for the Alliance?

Illuminatus Primus wrote:However, Han Solo remarks that in the OT novelisations that a formation of Star Destroyers appeared to be at least "a starfleet" if I remember correctly (Publius brought this to my attention and may feel free to correct me if I totally screwed up this reference). Which implies that a starfleet can refer to a general naval unit within the Imperial Navy as well.

I'll search for this, as I have the trilogy sitting on my bedside stand.