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I'm curious on how large the population is in the deep core, is it large or small?

19.7 billion people live on Byss. That's probably high-end for a Deep Core world, and there's hundreds of colonized worlds in the Deep Core.

A few trillion, perhaps?

19.7 billion people live on Byss. That's probably high-end for a Deep Core world, and there's hundreds of colonized worlds in the Deep Core.

A few trillion, perhaps?

Isn't Coruscant and similar planest on the deep core? Or are they on the Inner core?

Darth Phoenix wrote:

19.7 billion people live on Byss. That's probably high-end for a Deep Core world, and there's hundreds of colonized worlds in the Deep Core.

A few trillion, perhaps?

Isn't Coruscant and similar planest on the deep core? Or are they on the Inner core?

The Deep Core is the nasty, inhospitable center of the galaxy. The oldest settled planets, like Coruscant, are in the "Core Worlds" according to my Essential Chronology, which is basically the loop surrounding the Deep Core.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:19.7 billion people live on Byss. That's probably high-end for a Deep Core world, and there's hundreds of colonized worlds in the Deep Core.

A few trillion, perhaps?

Darksabre indicates that the Deep Core (as in the galatic 'hub') is largely un-populated. As does Dark Empire.

So what are we defining 'Deep Core' as?

The Deep Core is within the galactic nucleus.

Crown wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:19.7 billion people live on Byss. That's probably high-end for a Deep Core world, and there's hundreds of colonized worlds in the Deep Core.

A few trillion, perhaps?

Darksabre indicates that the Deep Core (as in the galatic 'hub') is largely un-populated. As does Dark Empire.

So what are we defining 'Deep Core' as?

A galactic bulge contains dozens of billions of stars. An equal portion of the galactic disk would likely contain several million inhabited worlds at least.

Generally, when you're talking about something which should contain millions of worlds, quadrillions of inhabitants, and it has only a few hundred--that is mostly uninhabited.

Besides, the Warlords have to have peons to fuel somesort of economy to lord over. Metal, money, food, basic economic fuel for the industries of war doesn't come out of asking really nicely. There has to be something there just due to what is there that we've seen.

EDIT:

And I said "colonized" for a reason; until Palpatine, virtually no one lived there except for a few exceptions on the fringes like the globular cluster Koornacht and the Empress Teta System.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Crown wrote:Darksabre indicates that the Deep Core (as in the galatic 'hub') is largely un-populated. As does Dark Empire.

So what are we defining 'Deep Core' as?

A galactic bulge contains dozens of billions of stars. An equal portion of the galactic disk would likely contain several million inhabited worlds at least.

Generally, when you're talking about something which should contain millions of worlds, quadrillions of inhabitants, and it has only a few hundred--that is mostly uninhabited.

Besides, the Warlords have to have peons to fuel somesort of economy to lord over. Metal, money, food, basic economic fuel for the industries of war doesn't come out of asking really nicely. There has to be something there just due to what is there that we've seen.

That's all really nice, but we need to define what Deep Core is. You have provided lovely reasonable reasoning for the way things should be but Darksabre tells us that the Deep Core is the military bases of the warlords, and that their 'territory' or 'civilian pool of resources' is in the Core region.

How do we reconcile those?

Illuminatus Primus wrote:EDIT:

And I said "colonized" for a reason; until Palpatine, virtually no one lived there except for a few exceptions on the fringes like the globular cluster Koornacht and the Empress Teta System.

Wasn't the Empress Teta system, like 4000 years before ANH's time? (I'm thinking Sith Wars and Exar Kun here)

In short; besides Byss (which has been destroyed), what other 'Deep Core' worlds are there? In the NJO it is said to be a barren unihabitated and largely unexplored area.

Crown wrote:That's all really nice, but we need to define what Deep Core is. You have provided lovely reasonable reasoning for the way things should be but Darksabre tells us that the Deep Core is the military bases of the warlords, and that their 'territory' or 'civilian pool of resources' is in the Core region.

How do we reconcile those?

No, it doesn't say that, at least to my memory. It does say the "Core Systems" though. The "Core Systems" = the "Deep Core."

The "Core Worlds" != the "Core Systems"

Its quite obvious in Darksabre that the Warlords aren't having picnics next door to Coruscant.

The Deep Core/Core Systems comprise the region of the galaxy which is inside the galactic bulge. The Core Worlds is the region in the inner annular reaches of the galactic disk immediately surrounding the galactic bulge.

The Deep Core/Core Systems was previously virtually uninhabited because the density of stars is quite enormous, making hyperspace navigation difficult, and the number of habitable worlds is quite low. In addition, astrophysical concerns make the galactic bulge considerably poor in post-helium elements, which also makes the region economically unattractive.

Crown wrote:Wasn't the Empress Teta system, like 4000 years before ANH's time? (I'm thinking Sith Wars and Exar Kun here)

No, you're completely correct. Empress Teta has been around for forever. It was her forces who rallied to the immediate counteroffensive when the Sith broke in to the Republic. Empress Teta's nobility became the Krath of the Sith Wars as well.

I don't really have a reason for that other than the rather inaccurate official maps place it on a clear hyperlane all the way to the edge of the galaxy and on the edge of the Deep Core.

So its probably a system located on the edges of the galactic bulge, not deep enough to be obscured from hyperspace access or irradiated by the myriads of stars nearby.

Crown wrote:In short; besides Byss (which has been destroyed), what other 'Deep Core' worlds are there? In the NJO it is said to be a barren unihabitated and largely unexplored area.

The Jedi safehouse of Eclipse was in the Deep Core. Tarkin's Fang and Ebaq 9 were also in the Deep Core. The Essential Chronology states that even after Pelleaon withdrew the Imperial forces and bureaucracy to the fortress worlds on the Rim, there were still Imperial subjects which Daala would eventually stir up again independently of Pelleaon and his Imperial Remnant.

There never were many worlds there, I mean, the Chommell Sector has tens of thousands of inhabited worlds, probably almost all of them more attractive and useful. And to the New Republic it was even worse because they never really recovered or tried to independently locate the hyperlanes that the Empire discovered under Palpatine. Pelleaon remains in possession of those starmaps, and loaned information to the Republic which made the ambush and Yuuzhan Vong defeat at Ebaq 9 in the Deep Core possible.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:No, it doesn't say that, at least to my memory. It does say the "Core Systems" though. The "Core Systems" = the "Deep Core."

The "Core Worlds" != the "Core Systems"

Its quite obvious in Darksabre that the Warlords aren't having picnics next door to Coruscant.

The Deep Core/Core Systems comprise the region of the galaxy which is inside the galactic bulge. The Core Worlds is the region in the inner annular reaches of the galactic disk immediately surrounding the galactic bulge.

The Deep Core/Core Systems was previously virtually uninhabited because the density of stars is quite enormous, making hyperspace navigation difficult, and the number of habitable worlds is quite low. In addition, astrophysical concerns make the galactic bulge considerably poor in post-helium elements, which also makes the region economically unattractive.

I'll get back to this, after re-reading Darksabre *shudder*. I want sort this out, it's starting to bug me.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:No, you're completely correct. Empress Teta has been around for forever. It was her forces who rallied to the immediate counteroffensive when the Sith broke in to the Republic. Empress Teta's nobility became the Krath of the Sith Wars as well.

I don't really have a reason for that other than the rather inaccurate official maps place it on a clear hyperlane all the way to the edge of the galaxy and on the edge of the Deep Core.

So its probably a system located on the edges of the galactic bulge, not deep enough to be obscured from hyperspace access or irradiated by the myriads of stars nearby.

Well do we know what it's status is like now? Is it still inhabitated, or has it gone into decline? Also it should be noted that we need to define in which period of SW we are looking at when discussing the population of the Deep Core, but I'll get to that later.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Jedi safehouse of Eclipse was in the Deep Core. Tarkin's Fang and Ebaq 9 were also in the Deep Core. The Essential Chronology states that even after Pelleaon withdrew the Imperial forces and bureaucracy to the fortress worlds on the Rim, there were still Imperial subjects which Daala would eventually stir up again independently of Pelleaon and his Imperial Remnant.

That's what I mean. By the NJO, the Deep Core is described as un-explored and un-inhabitated (the Jedi safehouse, nor the ambush were what one would consider 'major population centres'), and as for Daala I don't even know what happened to her.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:There never were many worlds there, I mean, the Chommell Sector has tens of thousands of inhabited worlds, probably almost all of them more attractive and useful. And to the New Republic it was even worse because they never really recovered or tried to independently locate the hyperlanes that the Empire discovered under Palpatine. Pelleaon remains in possession of those starmaps, and loaned information to the Republic which made the ambush and Yuuzhan Vong defeat at Ebaq 9 in the Deep Core possible.

So again, we come to the central question of which period are we talking about? The Dark Empire period, there would be easily perhaps 1000's of trillions, but the further we move away from that, the more we are going into 'uninhabitated'.

Unless we count the Sith Wars.

Crown wrote:Well do we know what it's status is like now?

Unknown. Been several years since the last time Daala came out with a fleet from the Deep Core.

Crown wrote:Is it still inhabitated, or has it gone into decline?

Most certainly decline, though concievably Daala could be still alive and scheming (KJA, that wanker!, pens the Chronology and of course machines his pet loser bitch a return to Imperial authority and then gives her a maybe-possibly-last-minute survival clause out of it. Bastard.).

Crown wrote:Also it should be noted that we need to define in which period of SW we are looking at when discussing the population of the Deep Core, but I'll get to that later.

Apart from systems on the edge of the bulge, the Deep Core should've been almost entirely uninhabited until Palpatine mapped it and began building safehouses and secretly shipping in Imperial fanatics to form the core populations of new worlds.

There is, however, at least one apparently native alien species (though they are humanoid and thus might be an early human off-shoot from settlers or a pseudohuman species which evolved along pressures presented by early human traders), the Khommites.

Crown wrote:That's what I mean. By the NJO, the Deep Core is described as un-explored and un-inhabitated (the Jedi safehouse, nor the ambush were what one would consider 'major population centres'), and as for Daala I don't even know what happened to her.

They don't really tell us anything. If the worlds there aren't self-sustaining, they could've petered out, but I really don't know.

Crown wrote:So again, we come to the central question of which period are we talking about? The Dark Empire period, there would be easily perhaps 1000's of trillions, but the further we move away from that, the more we are going into 'uninhabitated'.

I don't think the Sith Wars delve in the Deep Core much. Empress Teta isn't Deep Core as much as say, Byss or Eclipse is. Without the Empire, good luck getting to there.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I don't think the Sith Wars delve in the Deep Core much. Empress Teta isn't Deep Core as much as say, Byss or Eclipse is. Without the Empire, good luck getting to there.

Totally agree with you here. I'll go over Darksabre again, to see if it helps shed some light on the matter (as to where the warlords were keeping their civilian population centres, or at least the bulk of the Empire Dalaa was put in charge thereof).

Until then, where does that leave us? During Dark Empire the population would have been in the trillions (accounting for say all Palpy's forces), or at the very least 100's of billions. But after

I'll be more clear. The only explicit reference to the civilian population of the Deep Core's worlds is the 19.7 billion number from The Dark Empire Sourcebook, and a fleeting reference in The Essential Chronology:

[i]The Essential Chronology[/i] by Kevin J. Anderson and Daniel Wallace, page 121 wrote:During the Darksabre crisis, [Daala] had murdered thirteen warlords and appropriated their fleets, but she left behind a manufacturing infrastructure and planets teeming with Imperial subjects. [italicized emphasis mine]

Does anyone have The Essential Guide to Planets and Moons? If I remember correctly, it describes a few different planets in the Deep Core ... I'd check myself but I don't own it.

There are only two Deep Core planets listed in the EGPM, but I'll list those and a few others:

DEEP CORE
-Byss
-Khomm

KOORNACHT CLUSTER (star group located on the fringe of the Deep Core)
-Galantos
-J't'p'tan
-N'zoth

CORE
-Abregado-rae
-Alderaan
-Chandrilla
-Coruscant
-Kuat
-Ralltiir
-Corellia
-Duro
-Sacorria

The maps in the two Inside the Worlds books also list several planets in the Core and Deep Core, and also give us distinct boundry lines for territorial divisions.

The Deep Core has a radius of about 15,000 lightyears, while the Core extends out to either 17,500 or 20,000 lightyears (there is a dotted semicircle labeled "Core Worlds" at the smaller value, while the main border ends at the greater value, underneath is the label "Colonies", but that is most likely for the next outer section).

The Core World planets listed in both books are:
-Alderaan
-Corellia
-Coruscant
-Nubia
-Vulpter

Deep Core planets are:
-Aargau
-Ojom
-New Plympto (TPM book has this in the Core, while AotC has moved it to the Deep Core. I consider it nothing more than a revision)

New Plympto's movement into the Deep Core is definitely an error. Coruscant and the Core Worlds clearly features it as a Core World (in an exceptional map of the Core Worlds too I must say), just a few light-years away from Corellia.

There is also a section in the same book that identifies New Plympto as a Core World.

Perhaps, but the DK books are also higher in the Canon order than the RPG books...

Not anymore; as I originally was afraid, the I68 quote which we (rather liberally and by implication alone, I might add) enveloped over all of the DK nonfiction SW works and assumed to refer to "Cerasi/Sansweet canon" not "Rostini canon" did not apply in that manner.

Leland Chee recently clarified: there is "G level canon", ie. that which GL personally made or spun off directly, your novelisations, scripts, and movies.

"C level canon" which is the DK nonfiction books and all other EU too.

"S level canon" iffy shit like The Glove of Darth Vader.

Check your stickies, Spanky.

ICS and VD is not intrinsically more authoritive than other EU.

Well ain't that a shame...