Lightsaber+shields=?

PSW: discuss Star Wars without "versus" arguments.

Moderator: Vympel

User avatar
Techno_Union
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1599
Joined: 2003-11-26 08:02pm
Location: Atlanta

Lightsaber+shields=?

Post by Techno_Union »

There is a minor debate on SB.com here, and in it someone brings up a lightsaber can't go through shields (never specified what type of shields but mostly SW).

So my question is, how are lightsabers affected by shields in SW?

Those red energy field in TPM at the end battle between Sith and Jedi, were they "shield" types or what? I ask this becuase they stopped a lightsaber for the time they were in contact (not very long but still).
Proud member of GALE Force.
User avatar
YT300000
Sith'ari
Posts: 6528
Joined: 2003-05-20 12:49pm
Location: Calgary, Canada
Contact:

Re: Lightsaber+shields=?

Post by YT300000 »

Techno_Union wrote:Those red energy field in TPM at the end battle between Sith and Jedi, were they "shield" types or what? I ask this becuase they stopped a lightsaber for the time they were in contact (not very long but still).
They were both particle and ray shields. Ray because they stopped lightsabres, and particle because Obi-Wan didn't just deactivate his sabre and run through them.
Name changes are for people who wear women's clothes. - Zuul

Wow. It took me a good minute to remember I didn't have testicles. -xBlackFlash

Are you sure this isn't like that time Michael Jackson stopped by your house so he could use the bathroom? - Superman
User avatar
Spanky The Dolphin
Mammy Two-Shoes
Posts: 30776
Joined: 2002-07-05 05:45pm
Location: Reykjavík, Iceland (not really)

Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

That's not definate proof that they were both. Considering that IIRC, Ray shields can still cause physical injury from contact.

The laser doors (their official name) could still be either/or, in my opinion, but not nessesarily both simultaneously. Though I'm leaning towards ray shields.
Image
I believe in a sign of Zeta.

[BOTM|WG|JL|Mecha Maniacs|Pax Cybertronia|Veteran of the Psychic Wars|Eva Expert]

"And besides, who cares if a monster destroys Australia?"
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Post by Connor MacLeod »

In "Before the storm", Luke was able to use a lightsaber to cut through a personal shield to kill the person beneath, so they obviously CAN interact with shields (which would make sense to anyone who bothered to think about it - lightsabers emit energy, so they must be subject to devices that absorb/dissipate energy, like deflectors.)

I suppose if you were talking about in other non-SW universes, it would depend on the kind of shield in question.
User avatar
Techno_Union
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1599
Joined: 2003-11-26 08:02pm
Location: Atlanta

Post by Techno_Union »

Hey Connor, do you happen to know how much force he used, or if the lightsaber just went right through without stopping?
Proud member of GALE Force.
User avatar
The Nomad
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1839
Joined: 2002-08-08 11:28am
Location: Cheeseland

Post by The Nomad »

From HDS's Quotes & Extract Database :
Before the Storm wrote:The first man he had disarmed projected a personal shield, which blunted Luke's initial stroke. But the blow took the man to his knees all the same. The next stroke, with the power of the lightsaber married to the will of a Jedi Master, sliced through the shield and deep into the assailant's chest.
Luke even had to increase the strength of his blow with the Force to get through a personal shield. Possibly, droideka shields might be beyond most Jedi's ability to break through.
User avatar
YT300000
Sith'ari
Posts: 6528
Joined: 2003-05-20 12:49pm
Location: Calgary, Canada
Contact:

Post by YT300000 »

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:That's not definate proof that they were both. Considering that IIRC, Ray shields can still cause physical injury from contact.

The laser doors (their official name) could still be either/or, in my opinion, but not nessesarily both simultaneously. Though I'm leaning towards ray shields.
What where those shields there for in the first place? If their purpose was to stop gases or something, then we know they are particle shields too.
Name changes are for people who wear women's clothes. - Zuul

Wow. It took me a good minute to remember I didn't have testicles. -xBlackFlash

Are you sure this isn't like that time Michael Jackson stopped by your house so he could use the bathroom? - Superman
User avatar
Gil Hamilton
Tipsy Space Birdie
Posts: 12962
Joined: 2002-07-04 05:47pm
Contact:

Post by Gil Hamilton »

Besides, lightsabres have a thin metal-looking rod in their center when deployed is ANH is any indication, so it makes sense that they can interact with shields.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet

"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert

"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
User avatar
The Nomad
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1839
Joined: 2002-08-08 11:28am
Location: Cheeseland

Post by The Nomad »

Gil Hamilton wrote:Besides, lightsabres have a thin metal-looking rod in their center when deployed is ANH is any indication, so it makes sense that they can interact with shields.
Wasn't it a SFX glitch that was deleted in the newer version ?
User avatar
Gil Hamilton
Tipsy Space Birdie
Posts: 12962
Joined: 2002-07-04 05:47pm
Contact:

Post by Gil Hamilton »

The Nomad wrote:Wasn't it a SFX glitch that was deleted in the newer version ?
I don't know. All I know is that during the Obi-wan/Vader fight, Ben's lightsabre goes out several times and there is a thin metal-like rod there. Normally I'd agree it's a SFX error, but I'm pretty sure that Suspending Disbelief means that there are no bugs, only features.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet

"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert

"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
User avatar
Spanky The Dolphin
Mammy Two-Shoes
Posts: 30776
Joined: 2002-07-05 05:45pm
Location: Reykjavík, Iceland (not really)

Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

Please don't start that again, Gil.

YT3: The laser doors' purpose was to block excess plasma, I think.
Image
I believe in a sign of Zeta.

[BOTM|WG|JL|Mecha Maniacs|Pax Cybertronia|Veteran of the Psychic Wars|Eva Expert]

"And besides, who cares if a monster destroys Australia?"
User avatar
Gil Hamilton
Tipsy Space Birdie
Posts: 12962
Joined: 2002-07-04 05:47pm
Contact:

Post by Gil Hamilton »

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Please don't start that again, Gil.
Start what now? As SW:ANH establishes there is a rod smack in the middle of Obi-wan's lightsabre, which you can see when the glowing part flickers out occasionally.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet

"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert

"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
User avatar
Spanky The Dolphin
Mammy Two-Shoes
Posts: 30776
Joined: 2002-07-05 05:45pm
Location: Reykjavík, Iceland (not really)

Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

Don't start being an ass and argue against things like SOD based on known effects errors when you fucking know better, Gil.

The last time this happened was when you seemed to have randomly gotten a hair up your ass and just decided to act like a dick.
Image
I believe in a sign of Zeta.

[BOTM|WG|JL|Mecha Maniacs|Pax Cybertronia|Veteran of the Psychic Wars|Eva Expert]

"And besides, who cares if a monster destroys Australia?"
User avatar
Gil Hamilton
Tipsy Space Birdie
Posts: 12962
Joined: 2002-07-04 05:47pm
Contact:

Post by Gil Hamilton »

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Don't start being an ass and argue against things like SOD based on known effects errors when you fucking know better, Gil.

The last time this happened was when you seemed to have randomly gotten a hair up your ass and just decided to act like a dick.
And here you go acting like the fucking self appointed message board police. How's about you stop being an anal retentive loser and mind your own fucking business?

Unfortunately for you, even if they really are SFX errors, we cannot treat them as SFX errors due to Suspension of Disbelief. Just consider how many honest-to-god SFX errors regarding blasters and turbolasers have be treated as real before you decide to arbitrarily decide that this is of no consequence.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet

"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert

"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
User avatar
Spanky The Dolphin
Mammy Two-Shoes
Posts: 30776
Joined: 2002-07-05 05:45pm
Location: Reykjavík, Iceland (not really)

Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

You see? You're fucking doing it all over again.

You're seriously arguing that it should be accepted that since the metal rods used for the lightsabres during filming could be seen in a couple of shots in ANH, it should be regarded that lightsabres have such metal rods in their centres in the fictional setting. To me that's just being an ass, since all you're doing is deciding to randomly bitch about SoD.

Honestly, it's you who right now needs to shut up and mind their own fucking business.
Image
I believe in a sign of Zeta.

[BOTM|WG|JL|Mecha Maniacs|Pax Cybertronia|Veteran of the Psychic Wars|Eva Expert]

"And besides, who cares if a monster destroys Australia?"
User avatar
Gil Hamilton
Tipsy Space Birdie
Posts: 12962
Joined: 2002-07-04 05:47pm
Contact:

Post by Gil Hamilton »

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:You see? You're fucking doing it all over again.

You're seriously arguing that it should be accepted that since the metal rods used for the lightsabres during filming could be seen in a couple of shots in ANH, it should be regarded that lightsabres have such metal rods in their centres in the fictional setting. To me that's just being an ass, since all you're doing is deciding to randomly bitch about SoD.
We accept other SFX errors as real, like the faint square around TIE Fighters being shields (even though it was imperfect blue screening) and blasters bolts doing odd things (ILM never was perfect) or the dozens of other bloopers that happen in StarWars that people explain away. We have to accept this as canon, if we accept any SFX errors at all as canon. It happened more than once as well. After Vader "slays" Obi-Wan and Luke shoots the door closed, Vader lightsabre has the metal rod thing going rather than it glowing red as it normally does.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet

"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert

"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
User avatar
Gil Hamilton
Tipsy Space Birdie
Posts: 12962
Joined: 2002-07-04 05:47pm
Contact:

Post by Gil Hamilton »

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Honestly, it's you who right now needs to shut up and mind their own fucking business.
Except that my original post was on topic and relevant, while the only thing you've been doing in this thread is acting like the Asshole of the Message Board police. I'm suprised you haven't found any typos to nitpick, given how pathetic your efforts have been thus far.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet

"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert

"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
User avatar
nightmare
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1539
Joined: 2002-07-26 11:07am
Location: Here. Sometimes there.

Post by nightmare »

Gil Hamilton wrote:We accept other SFX errors as real, like the faint square around TIE Fighters being shields (even though it was imperfect blue screening)
Perhaps you would like to explain why this particular 'imperfect blue screening error' still resides with STAR WARS A New Hope Special Edition. Or why we don't see more of it?
Star Trek vs. Star Wars, Extralife style.
User avatar
Spanky The Dolphin
Mammy Two-Shoes
Posts: 30776
Joined: 2002-07-05 05:45pm
Location: Reykjavík, Iceland (not really)

Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

Gil Hamilton wrote:We accept other SFX errors as real, like the faint square around TIE Fighters being shields (even though it was imperfect blue screening)
Matte boxes are NOT the basis for the arguement for TIE deflector shields, you idiot: shield flashes during the Falcon-TIE dogfight in ANH are...

Jesus, now you're being purposely obtuse. :roll:
Image
I believe in a sign of Zeta.

[BOTM|WG|JL|Mecha Maniacs|Pax Cybertronia|Veteran of the Psychic Wars|Eva Expert]

"And besides, who cares if a monster destroys Australia?"
User avatar
Gil Hamilton
Tipsy Space Birdie
Posts: 12962
Joined: 2002-07-04 05:47pm
Contact:

Post by Gil Hamilton »

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Matte boxes are NOT the basis for the arguement for TIE deflector shields, you idiot: shield flashes during the Falcon-TIE dogfight in ANH are...

Jesus, now you're being purposely obtuse. :roll:
I've heard the matte boxes used as evidence for TIE shields before, here and on SB.com. I wasn't contesting the existance of shields themselves.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet

"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert

"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
User avatar
Spanky The Dolphin
Mammy Two-Shoes
Posts: 30776
Joined: 2002-07-05 05:45pm
Location: Reykjavík, Iceland (not really)

Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

Well I personally haven't, and anybody who uses the matte boxes as evidence for shields for anything is honestly a fucking idiot...
Image
I believe in a sign of Zeta.

[BOTM|WG|JL|Mecha Maniacs|Pax Cybertronia|Veteran of the Psychic Wars|Eva Expert]

"And besides, who cares if a monster destroys Australia?"
User avatar
nightmare
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1539
Joined: 2002-07-26 11:07am
Location: Here. Sometimes there.

Post by nightmare »

Gil Hamilton wrote:I've heard the matte boxes used as evidence for TIE shields before, here and on SB.com. I wasn't contesting the existance of shields themselves.
I've never seen such an argument. But in any case, AFAIK we don't use SFX glitches as evidence unconditionally. For example, I've never seen anyone claim that TIE fighters are sometimes equipped with phase cloaks..
Star Trek vs. Star Wars, Extralife style.
User avatar
PainRack
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7583
Joined: 2002-07-07 03:03am
Location: Singapura

Post by PainRack »

nightmare wrote:
Gil Hamilton wrote:I've heard the matte boxes used as evidence for TIE shields before, here and on SB.com. I wasn't contesting the existance of shields themselves.
I've never seen such an argument. But in any case, AFAIK we don't use SFX glitches as evidence unconditionally. For example, I've never seen anyone claim that TIE fighters are sometimes equipped with phase cloaks..
Turbolaser passing through A-wing.
Let him land on any Lyran world to taste firsthand the wrath of peace loving people thwarted by the myopic greed of a few miserly old farts- Katrina Steiner
Howedar
Emperor's Thumb
Posts: 12472
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:06pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Post by Howedar »

TPM explicitly demonstrates that typical SW metal will not survive contact with a lightsaber blade. Although of lower canon status, many SW game plots revolve partly around a metal that is partly resistant to lightsabers (note that this in and of itself is considered exceptional, ie there are no metals that are completely resistant).

TESB demonstrates that Imperial armor and/or structure (on AT-ATs) cannot resist lightsabers.

As it explicitly contradicts TPM and TESB, we can conclusively say that the fight in the DS1 in ANH does not demonstrate metal rods inside lightsabers. Whatever alternate interprtation is devised, I do not know. However, the ANH events are open to interpretation while the TPM events are not.
Howedar is no longer here. Need to talk to him? Talk to Pick.
User avatar
White Haven
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6360
Joined: 2004-05-17 03:14pm
Location: The North Remembers, When It Can Be Bothered

Post by White Haven »

So...in earlier sci-fi movies, where we can see the wires being used to hold the models for starships up, does that prove they're all being dangled from some uber-mothership directly above, and that directed gravity is being used to hold the lines in the same direction?

:roll:
Image
Image
Chronological Incontinence: Time warps around the poster. The thread topic winks out of existence and reappears in 1d10 posts.

Out of Context Theatre, this week starring Darth Nostril.
-'If you really want to fuck with these idiots tell them that there is a vaccine for chemtrails.'

Fiction!: The Final War (Bolo/Lovecraft) (Ch 7 9/15/11), Living (D&D, Complete)Image
Post Reply