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I´m not sure wether this is enough to warrant a new thread or if I should just resurrect the "Inside the Worlds of the SW Trilogy"-thread, but any way:

Since Saxton is on board the writing team (even if it´s as a consultant), is it possible we´ll see some mention of the lesser known ship-classes from the trilogy? (Heaven forbid an actual naming of the classes!) You know, like the "communications ship" and the "bay-less destroyer" from ROTJ, and "big, Corellian ships" from ANH? Not to mention proper naming of the Mon Cal cruisers...

Anyone heard anything from him regarding stuff like that?

Saxton maintains a professional level of silence regarding his work on such books until after they're published.

News from the Official Site!

Linky

Here's some of the goodies from what the OS posted:

-Echo Base had 7,500 combat personnel.

-The Empire employed Incom Y-85 Titan dropships to deploy the AT-AT walkers on Hoth.

-Among the personal items in Emperor Palpatine's quarters aboard the second Death Star is a piece of art given to him by longtime ally and follower, Moff Panaka.

-Helping spare Endor from a fiery metal-pelting fate were the valiant effort of Rebel starships that erected deflector shields and towed hazardous wreckage away from the green moon.

Emphasis mine.

Panaka's a Palpatine admirer

R.I.P. Endor Holocaust Theory

I would have preferred it if the Rebel's simply EVACUATED THE FUCKING TRIBE THAT HELPED THEM. There, you have Endor Holocaust Theory, and you have Rebel's trying to make up for it; including Ewok recruits only too happy to fight for the Rebels (we see a duo of them in DE shaking Chewie's hand, probably meaning they were the ones with him on the AT-ST).

Doesn't matter if they forced Saxton to allow that threw, it doesn't really change things as is.

As Saxton put it, the Rebel fleet cannot possess them means to move the Death Star's mass-energy away from the Moon becuase then they could simply used that means against the Death Star itself.

And I don't really see the potential for installing a shield generator protecting at least half the Moon and towing away all major impactors (which were possibly moving at extreme velocities) while simultaneously fighting the Imperial fleet for another four hours.

Nice to see Pablo Hidalgo and Co. clinging to that hair like rapid vermin.

President Sharky wrote:R.I.P. Endor Holocaust Theory

I wonder if Curtis was instructed by Lucasfilm to help poke holes in his own theory to support this.

Naturally the anti-Holocaust kneejerkers will hold this up as some magic pixie dust to thwart something they have a personal agenda against.

Nevertheless, this is nothing new, neither in terms of what's been proposed officially and in the countless ad hoc grab bag of everything and anything which concievably defeat Saxton's hypothesis.

And its hardly any more plausable or a perfect and complete fix as it was before. Movie canon trumps everything.

I want to know why the Endor Holocaust Theory is so bad in the eyes of the official PTB at Lucasfilm. It's a war, the Ewoks are casualties. They're another 3rd party caught in the middle. It happens. What's the big deal?

And I like my compromise. The Rebels can't save Endor, so they evacuate the Ewok tribe that contributed to their victory. The rebels had transport ships in their fleet, so it's not inconceivable they could evac a few hundred/thousand 3ft high midgets. Especially if they cram them into their big ships.

Maybe the Rebels could set up a temporary shield the protected that particular area of Endor for a few days, to help Evac. Conceivable?

Stofsk wrote:I want to know why the Endor Holocaust Theory is so bad in the eyes of the official PTB at Lucasfilm. It's a war, the Ewoks are casualties. They're another 3rd party caught in the middle. It happens. What's the big deal?

Because Pablo Hidalgo wants SW to be treated like Loony Toons.

Stofsk wrote:And I like my compromise. The Rebels can't save Endor, so they evacuate the Ewok tribe that contributed to their victory. The rebels had transport ships in their fleet, so it's not inconceivable they could evac a few hundred/thousand 3ft high midgets. Especially if they cram them into their big ships.

Partial evacuation of some Ewoks is supported in the official evidence.

Stofsk wrote:Maybe the Rebels could set up a temporary shield the protected that particular area of Endor for a few days, to help Evac. Conceivable?

I only have a beef that the Rebels had the time, energy, and capability (remember, the fleet at Endor was the ENTIRE Alliance) to place enough shielding up in minutes during the heat of battle, then keep it up indefinitely until all that shit could be pulled into a higher orbit or to escape velocity. It defies any assemblance of human sense.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Because Pablo Hidalgo wants SW to be treated like Loony Toons.

I remember the old thread. I was hoping he was in the minority.

Partial evacuation of some Ewoks is supported in the official evidence.

That's what I figured.

I only have a beef that the Rebels had the time, energy, and capability (remember, the fleet at Endor was the ENTIRE Alliance) to place enough shielding up in minutes during the heat of battle, then keep it up indefinitely until all that shit could be pulled into a higher orbit or to escape velocity. It defies any assemblance of human sense.

How does the timeline of events go? The Rebel fleet and Imperial fleet battle it out for some time after the DS2 went up, but was there an interval between the DS2 exploding and the final Imp withdrawal?

There was enough time for some sort of celebration on the surface that lasted an indeterminate amount of time. Was that after the Imp withdrawal?

Stofsk wrote:How does the timeline of events go? The Rebel fleet and Imperial fleet battle it out for some time after the DS2 went up, but was there an interval between the DS2 exploding and the final Imp withdrawal?

Yeah, four hours more, and lead by an Imperial Grand Admiral. And even better, thanks to certain quotes and canon policy, very strict limits are placed on what was available to the Rebels. Essentially, everything they had was at Endor (so no quick-response support team rushing in once the Death Star blew up) and that itself is limited to what you see in the movies and what is elaborated/added by official. And that's it. If you extrapolate to invent stuff which was explicitly there than you're intentionally inventing evidence to support a preconcieved agenda which runs directly counter to the direct consequences of the filmic canon. That's very iffy, to say the least.

Stofsk wrote:There was enough time for some sort of celebration on the surface that lasted an indeterminate amount of time. Was that after the Imp withdrawal?

I'd imagine so. I can buy some sort of interlocking shield web established by rigging together the systems of various starships, and maybe there were some secondary relays moonside which were powered up. But I find it highly doubtful that a full englobement planetary shield was maintained indefinitely until nearly the entire mass of the enormous Death Star was all accelerated to a high stable orbit or escape velocity.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Stofsk wrote:How does the timeline of events go? The Rebel fleet and Imperial fleet battle it out for some time after the DS2 went up, but was there an interval between the DS2 exploding and the final Imp withdrawal?

Yeah, four hours more, and lead by an Imperial Grand Admiral. And even better, thanks to certain quotes and canon policy, very strict limits are placed on what was available to the Rebels. Essentially, everything they had was at Endor (so no quick-response support team rushing in once the Death Star blew up) and that itself is limited to what you see in the movies and what is elaborated/added by official. And that's it. If you extrapolate to invent stuff which was explicitly there than you're intentionally inventing evidence to support a preconcieved agenda which runs directly counter to the direct consequences of the filmic canon. That's very iffy, to say the least.

My only 'agenda' as it were is to try and compromise between the Endor holocaust (which I support) and the evac of the Ewok tribe that supported the Rebels.

I'd imagine so. I can buy some sort of interlocking shield web established by rigging together the systems of various starships, and maybe there were some secondary relays moonside which were powered up.

That's starting to sound plausible. The Rebels don't need to save the entire planet, just that small region to evacuate however many Ewoks survived. Military redundancy (your secondary shield relays) and fleet ships creating a geosynchronous blockade would be enough to get an evacuation under way.

But I find it highly doubtful that a full englobement planetary shield was maintained indefinitely until nearly the entire mass of the enormous Death Star was all accelerated to a high stable orbit or escape velocity.

It doesn't have to last that long. Just long enough to cram the furballs into the Rebel transport ships and get the hell out of there.

But the question is, how many Ewoks could be saved? A couple hundred? A couple thousand? The MonCals are big ships, but they wouldn't be able to hold them for long. Can we assume if an evac occurred, it would be after the Imp withdrawal (assuming a evac during a fleet engagement... would be problematic, at best)?

Stofsk wrote:My only 'agenda' as it were is to try and compromise between the Endor holocaust (which I support) and the evac of the Ewok tribe that supported the Rebels.

I'm not talking about you personally, I'm talking about those bound and determined to defeat the Holocaust hypothesis in general.

Stofsk wrote:That's starting to sound plausible. The Rebels don't need to save the entire planet, just that small region to evacuate however many Ewoks survived. Military redundancy (your secondary shield relays) and fleet ships creating a geosynchronous blockade would be enough to get an evacuation under way.

Geosynchronous blockade is not the right term for what you're describing. I'd also add that in my opinion that the ad hoc theory I threw out was is at and probably beyond the limits of feasability and common sense with four hours of post-explosion fleet combat. That leaves a totally redundant and logically nonsensical planetary shield grid hypothesized for the express purpose of defeating the Holocaust hypothesis. Like I've said, its ugly.

Stofsk wrote:It doesn't have to last that long. Just long enough to cram the furballs into the Rebel transport ships and get the hell out of there.

Its ugly in general. I'm willing to concede some apparatus which prevented the strike team at the base directly under the Death Star from being annhiliated. Still, the balloon payment will eventually be due, and someone will pay the piper. I'm afraid the Alliance just doesn't have that kind of credit and the Endorian biosphere ends up left with the bill after the party.

Stofsk wrote:But the question is, how many Ewoks could be saved? A couple hundred? A couple thousand? The MonCals are big ships, but they wouldn't be able to hold them for long. Can we assume if an evac occurred, it would be after the Imp withdrawal (assuming a evac during a fleet engagement... would be problematic, at best)?

I'd say official evidence doesn't suggest or require or constrain any more than a few hundred.

The OT Inside The Worlds looks awesome. All I need now is the AOTC one, which I can't find, and the TPM one, which I can't find.

I also wish they'd make a new OT ICS with:

- the Executor
- Shuttle Tyderian
- Imperial Star Destroyer Avenger (compared to Devastator)
- Headquarters Frigate call-sign "Home One" (with an inset dealing with MC cruisers in general)
- A-Wing
- B-Wing
- TIE Interceptor
- TIE Bomber
- Death Star II
- Rebel transport (Hoth/ Endor)
- "Communications Ship" (whatever it is)

and of course .... Saxton figures!

Oh, please stop. We've now been presented with an explanation as to how Endor survived the Death Star explosion. It's not perfect, but we must not forget that it's GL vision that the Endor moon survived.

I found this little passage to be of interest:

represent a wealth of never-before-revealed official information about some well-known locales.

That's something for certain individuals out on the 'Net to interpret that doesn't understand SW canon (needless to say, none of these people can be found on this board ).

Mange the Swede wrote:Oh, please stop. We've now been presented with an explanation as to how Endor survived the Death Star explosion. It's not perfect, but we must not forget that it's GL vision that the Endor moon survived.

It's not imperfect, it's downright nonsensical and completely at odds with canon events in ROTJ.

Howedar's right. The problem isn't with the presence of an explanation or it subjective congruence with GL's nebulous "vision," but with the fact that, this explanation, compared against the consistent reality presented in the fictional universe of the SW films, does not work, and appears to be yet another ass-covering-we-won't-admit-we-fucked-up ad hoc intentionally vague hypothesis.

-Helping spare Endor from a fiery metal-pelting fate were the valiant effort of Rebel starships that erected deflector shields and towed hazardous wreckage away from the green moon.

Does this mean the four hour fighting between imperials and rebels AFTER DSIIs destruction is thrown out of the window?

If you ask me, LFL can have only one of the two: Continued fighting or attempts to save the Ewoks.

FTeik wrote:If you ask me, LFL can have only one of the two: Continued fighting or attempts to save the Ewoks.

I'm attempting (poorly, IMO) to compromise; there had to be some sort of way the Rebels could stand on Endor for some indeterminate time after the DS2 explosion. There was enough time for a quasi-celebration (which could just as well have been a Ewok "Farewell Dance" thing to their homeland), so a temporary 'shield' designed to delay the inevitable isn't that inconceivable.

[EDIT] I hope.

That's not his point. He observes the same thing you do, but he's criticizing LFL for wanting its cake and eating it too: sure you can fit in what you and I have been talking about, but with four hours of continued fleet combat against an Imperial Grand Admiral? Come on.

Regarding the "Entire Alliance" being at Endor, what evidence do you have of that statement? Surely the Alliance must have kept some sector fleets to defend their systems, or were these totally undefended at the time before and during the battle?

Vader mentions 'a rebel fleet' not 'the rebel fleet' you know...

VT-16 wrote:Regarding the "Entire Alliance" being at Endor, what evidence do you have of that statement? Surely the Alliance must have kept some sector fleets to defend their systems, or were these totally undefended at the time before and during the battle?

Vympel went through a good deal of effort to point out with canon novel passages. Incidentally after Hoth the Rebels kept a mobile base. That actually brings up something I want to explore, but this isn't the thread for it...

Vader mentions 'a rebel fleet' not 'the rebel fleet' you know...

If Vader meant there were other separate fleets, they were probably ones in the process of construction. I'm sure the fleet the Rebel's mustered for Endor was every ACTIVE asset they had available.

If Vader meant there were other separate fleets, they were probably ones in the process of construction. I'm sure the fleet the Rebel's mustered for Endor was every ACTIVE asset they had available.

Aahh, that sounds better. And semi-logical. Sorry, but I just got hilarious "EU minimalism"-vibes reading the above statement. Thanks for the theory though, appreciate it!

President Sharky wrote:Panaka's a Palpatine admirer

Not just an admirer: he's a freaking Moff!!

It's quite interesting that a Naboo chief security officer can be elevated to the position of Imperial sector governor. Clearly fitting with Palpatine's methods of dealing with associates from his past: promote rather than silence.

It's very unfortunate regarding the status of the Endor Holocaust, even more so that some sort of compromise couldn't have at least been made between the two theories. I guess the cult of Hidalgo was a bit too strong over at LFL, although IIRC, Wayne has stated that Saxton isn't really that confrontational of a person.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Wayne has stated that Saxton isn't really that confrontational of a person.

It's true. As far as I can recall, Curtis never once stooped to arguing in the same way that we do here.