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Was Vader well known throughout the Empire? I figure at least some people knew who he was. Han fired on him in ESB without a second thought, so he at least did.

Cpl Kendall wrote:Was Vader well known throughout the Empire? I figure at least some people knew who he was. Han fired on him in ESB without a second thought, so he at least did.

Han had seen Vader in ANH (in DS1), but I think at least imperial admirals knew Vader.

Lord Revan wrote: Han had seen Vader in ANH (in DS1), but I think at least imperial admirals knew Vader.

I'm sure the Senior Officers of the Imperial military knew of him. What I'm wondering is if the normal civilian populace knew of him.

Cpl Kendall wrote:

Lord Revan wrote: Han had seen Vader in ANH (in DS1), but I think at least imperial admirals knew Vader.

I'm sure the Senior Officers of the Imperial military knew of him. What I'm wondering is if the normal civilian populace knew of him.

I think that civilians knew rumors of imperial commander of that name, but nothing more.

Cpl Kendall wrote:

Lord Revan wrote: Han had seen Vader in ANH (in DS1), but I think at least imperial admirals knew Vader.

I'm sure the Senior Officers of the Imperial military knew of him. What I'm wondering is if the normal civilian populace knew of him.

Actually in a variety of EU he is pubicly known. They literally have parades with him at the head of it all.

Donald Rumsfeld is well-known. Why wouldn't Vader be?

He is the offical right hand of the Emperor.
Of course he should be well known, sice he does the dirty work for the Emperor.
And he must be known in politics, because Leia's dialoge between him and her on her corvette in ANH shows that clearly.

Vader was probably well known after ANH when he became supreme commander of the military. Most of people in the empire would be aware of who is running the military. But was he as well known before ANH?

Vader was a terror weapon. If people don't know about a terror weapon, they won't be frightened of it.

Additionally, he had a big role in the elimination of the Jedi Knights who survived the Clone Wars--a difficult thing to keep under wraps.

Vader was extremely well-known. In Splinter of the Mind's Eye, for example, Vader frequented parades and had enough of a reputation that a few words to a child from Vader stuck with the guy for his entire life. He was by far the most visible of the Emperor's agents.

Splinter of the Mind's Eye is not one of the best sources concerning Star Wars. Since that thing contraidicts some things heavily......

Tribun wrote:Splinter of the Mind's Eye is not one of the best sources concerning Star Wars. Since that thing contraidicts some things heavily......

True, but none of the Vader parade thing has ever been contradicted by any other source.

Master of Ossus wrote:

Tribun wrote:Splinter of the Mind's Eye is not one of the best sources concerning Star Wars. Since that thing contraidicts some things heavily......

True, but none of the Vader parade thing has ever been contradicted by any other source.

I need to read it again. Must dig it out of bookcase.

I agree that Vader was well known, but to play devils advocate for a bit, there isn't alot to support this other than common sense. Vader enters the TIV only after the battle is won (we know this wasn't out of fear, he could have captured the ship himelf. ST take note: THIS is how commanders act), Leia recognises him, but she's a terrorist with connections and would know of him. Obi Wan knows, obviously, and so does Yoda; but Luke says he hates 'the Empire', and he has no personal contact with Vader in ANH apart from being nearly shot down). I don't think the Rebels knew who it was in that special TIE. Han fired on him in ESB, but by then Han knew all about him. Aboard the DS, Tarkin and various military figures basically roll their eyes at Vader a fair bit.

But of course people know of him. My question is, would they know of his Force powers? No one seemed to know he was a fallen Jedi, and Vader (at least in ANH, and around non-Force users) seemed to keep a low profile magic-wise.

I think it's unfortunate we see so much of Vader as he is pursuing Luke; obviously the pressure is getting to him, and perhaps Luke makes his personal issues worse. I don't personally think Vader usually goes around killing Imperial Captains.

EU silliness notwithstanding, I doubt Vader was well-known to general populace of the galaxy. I saw him as more of the Emperor's "Cancer Man," rarely seen yet infamous throughout the Imperial court and upper echelons of the military as a former Jedi and bold enforcer of His Majesty's will.

I simply doubt the Emperor would publicize Vader's existence given the known history of the Sith, especially during the intervening years between ROTS and ANH when there was an obvious power struggle between Palpatine and the Imperial Senate.

Tribun wrote:Splinter of the Mind's Eye is not one of the best sources concerning Star Wars. Since that thing contraidicts some things heavily......

True, but George Lucas gave the thing the Official Go-Ahead and Once Over. So while it's contradicted, it should definitely be counted.

Stark wrote:I agree that Vader was well known, but to play devils advocate for a bit, there isn't alot to support this other than common sense. Vader enters the TIV only after the battle is won (we know this wasn't out of fear, he could have captured the ship himelf. ST take note: THIS is how commanders act), Leia recognises him, but she's a terrorist with connections and would know of him.

She's also a Senator and stateswoman but she's not part of the Imperial Court. I doubt that she'd know anything totally black. We've seen the Empire was better at keeping secrets than that.

Stark wrote:Obi Wan knows, obviously, and so does Yoda; but Luke says he hates 'the Empire', and he has no personal contact with Vader in ANH apart from being nearly shot down). I don't think the Rebels knew who it was in that special TIE.

They probably didn't or more of an effort might have been made to shoot him down. That doesn't mean that they didn't know of Vader though,

Stark wrote: Han fired on him in ESB, but by then Han knew all about him.

And Han being Han, probably would have shot regardless.

Stark wrote:Aboard the DS, Tarkin and various military figures basically roll their eyes at Vader a fair bit.

Of course they do, but they were also very high up there as well. Tarkin at least harbored ambitions of his own Empire. These are not men Vader could take lightly.

Stark wrote:But of course people know of him. My question is, would they know of his Force powers? No one seemed to know he was a fallen Jedi, and Vader (at least in ANH, and around non-Force users) seemed to keep a low profile magic-wise.

The EU flat out states that people knew Vader was an ex-Jedi. In fact according to them, Palpatine made a point of that when he conducted his Jedi purges.

The ANH novelization implies that a fair amount of people knew he was a Sith Lord as well, but not necessarily saying they knew the whole truth of what it meant.

Stark wrote:I think it's unfortunate we see so much of Vader as he is pursuing Luke; obviously the pressure is getting to him, and perhaps Luke makes his personal issues worse. I don't personally think Vader usually goes around killing Imperial Captains.

Actually, from everything it sounds like he does. Anakin has a rather hot temper and I don't think it's unreasonable to think he strangled those that pissed him off.

The way the EU represented Vader...he pretty much did kill enough(Zahn makes it a bit too much of a point given each killing was an abject failure) that one didn't piss Vader off.

As for his knowledge of being an ex-Jedi...most the EU said the Emperor made a large deal and acknowledged him as a Sith Lord. Hell, Tarkin makes note of it by calling him the last of that dying religon, when they talk about Ben escaping with the Princess.

Now the Emperor, I doubt many if any knew of his powers since for all to watch he was essentially a very old man.

Also to make him a symbol of the last of the Jedi and a public figure shows who's taken over quite clearly.

*dons never-read-EU asbestos suit*

Isn't everyone knowing Vader is a magical person almost expressly rejected by ANH, where the whole Jedi thing is laughed at, even by Imperial higher-ups who were old enough to remember the Jedi?

And Stormbringer, I agree Han would've fired anyway (I know I do when bizarre bondage-masters gatecrash dinner), but by then he did know exactly who Vader was, so its not important.

Its a shame the EU talks up his officer slayage. He didn't seem so unbalanced in ANH, so I just figured it was just stress.

Stormbringers comment on Imperial secrecy is interesting; obviously, since they can hide a DS construction, they could conceal Vader's presence, or history, or attitudes, and it makes sense to do so... so the EU Imperial posterboy schtick doesn't really make any sense.

Stark wrote:*dons never-read-EU asbestos suit*

Isn't everyone knowing Vader is a magical person almost expressly rejected by ANH, where the whole Jedi thing is laughed at, even by Imperial higher-ups who were old enough to remember the Jedi?

It's only rejected by Motti.

Tarkin knows who he is and acknoledges him as the last of them. Unless he's taken up Motti's viewpoint I don't believe he ever mocked it and none of them looked like they were laughing when he was killing someone.

Its a shame the EU talks up his officer slayage. He didn't seem so unbalanced in ANH, so I just figured it was just stress.

EU brings it up a bit much, but given how he handles failure in ESB...somehow I wouldn't consider the threat he gave in RoTJ to Moff Jerrorord just stress.

Stormbringers comment on Imperial secrecy is interesting; obviously, since they can hide a DS construction, they could conceal Vader's presence, or history, or attitudes, and it makes sense to do so... so the EU Imperial posterboy schtick doesn't really make any sense.

He himself may have wanted it. Why not...The Emperor has everything to hide but Vader can easily use it as intimidation. I mean knowing he's coming to visit would make anyone a bit fearful if they know who and what he is versus some agent of the Emperor.

I personally doubt that many civilians or even most military personel really knew anything about the Sith.

They may have been the talk of the town 4000-5000 and plus years ago, but for the past 1000 years they seemed to have been slipping further and further into obscurity, until hardly anyone seems to know what they were by the time of the trilogies (of course most of the main characters know, but that's because they're involved in the crisis and in positions that would allow them to know things about the Sith).

Given Palpatine's political savvy and how well he was able to manipulate everyone behind the scenes, I'd assume he continued to employ these methods well into his reign as Emperor.

That's why I'd expect him to keep Vader on a relatively short leash, preferring to utilize his apprentice's talents covertly and only when necessary (as he did with Darths Maul and Tyrannus).

The rest of the time, I'd think that Palpatine would rely on his political wiles and the Force to get his way and maintain his support-base among the affluent core populace and military industrial complex.

Ghost Rider wrote:The way the EU represented Vader...he pretty much did kill enough(Zahn makes it a bit too much of a point given each killing was an abject failure) that one didn't piss Vader off.

As for his knowledge of being an ex-Jedi...most the EU said the Emperor made a large deal and acknowledged him as a Sith Lord. Hell, Tarkin makes note of it by calling him the last of that dying religon, when they talk about Ben escaping with the Princess.

I thought that was specifically to him being the last of the Jedi?

Stark wrote:*dons never-read-EU asbestos suit*

Isn't everyone knowing Vader is a magical person almost expressly rejected by ANH, where the whole Jedi thing is laughed at, even by Imperial higher-ups who were old enough to remember the Jedi?

They don't have to know he has special powers to know that he enjoys special status in the Empire. He is called LORD Vader, which means he has public title of nobility.

Ghost Rider wrote:

Stark wrote:*dons never-read-EU asbestos suit*

Isn't everyone knowing Vader is a magical person almost expressly rejected by ANH, where the whole Jedi thing is laughed at, even by Imperial higher-ups who were old enough to remember the Jedi?

It's only rejected by Motti.

Tarkin knows who he is and acknoledges him as the last of them. Unless he's taken up Motti's viewpoint I don't believe he ever mocked it and none of them looked like they were laughing when he was killing someone.

Han Solo, for one, also rejected the whole Force thing, though he ought to have been experienced enough to know better.

That's one thing that's bugged me about this whole saga: only about twenty years are supposed to pass between episodes 3 and 4, and yet the Jedi Order seems to have nearly vanished into myth. They are household names in TPM, even in a backwater like Tattooine. (Watto: "What do you think you are, some kind of Jedi?") Notice how in ANH, Kenobi can wander the streets of Mos Espa without arousing suspicion, or even comment, until he disarms a bar patron.

Anyways, there must have been an extremely effective propaganda campaign in order to purge the Jedi not only from the history books, but from living memory, one of Orwellian proportions. It seems to me that to parade Vader around as one of the supposedly mythical former Jedi would be counter-productive to that agenda, especially to the general public.

The question, though, is whether or not Vader is known to exist by the general public, not whether or not it's known that he is strong with the Force. The answer that I come up with is "why not".