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What if the Imperial Senate was not disbanded by the emporer. What would have happened after the emporer and vader were destroyed with the second death star?

Would the destructive power struggle still have taken place? If so, what part would the senate play in it.

Would there be the possibility of the empire turning back into a republic of some sort?

In my opinion the power struggle would have taken place within the senate. It probably would have been less destructive as the military would not be involved.


any other opinions? theories?

I doubt that in any possible reality the senate would have lasted so long. And even if this would happen, the military was much too powerfull in the Empire. The Senate wouldn't have had any powers and most likely be ignored or worse, killed. I don't see any way the Empire would have turned into a REpublic again.

The Senate's power would've been undermined and the real authority in the hands of the regional Moffs long before Palpatine publicly dissolved it.
With no clear successor to the throne, things would play out more or less the same. The best the Senate could do to have any impact at all would be to officially back one of the warlords for the position of Emperor and perhaps he would gain some leverage because of that. But in the end it'd make little difference.

However, with the Senate being largely Rebel sympathizers, at least in the view of the Empire's major powers, I find it doubtful the Senate would back anyone for Emperor period (other than someone they believe they could control).

Vohu Manah wrote:However, with the Senate being largely Rebel sympathizers, at least in the view of the Empire's major powers, I find it doubtful the Senate would back anyone for Emperor period (other than someone they believe they could control).

Agreed; that was what the Moffs tried to do with Thrawn after all, although that backfired when Thrawn proved popular with both the Impeiral military and the Impeiral civillian population.

The Senate could have named a successor. After all, legally Palpatine's powers were granted to him by the Senate. How much influence they actually would have had is debatable, but they could have leant a measure of legitimacy to one of the warlords, or quickly promoted one of the Moffs or Grand Admirals. It might not have prevented the civil war, but it could have ameliorated it (especially when Thrawn showed up). It also, paradoxically, could have PREVENTED the Rebel Alliance from declaring itself the New Republic, since technically, the Old Republic still existed and Mon Mothma's band of merry men would have had no legitimacy.

As for Rebel sympathsizers, there's no reason Palpatine couldn't have arranged for their replacement or expulsion from the Senate, or their marginalization within it. In my opinion, he didn't dissolve the Senate because it was full of sympathy for the Rebels or because he didn't want any organization with even pseudo-autonomy and authority around to challenge him. Rather, he did it because removing the Senate was the last step towards engineering a system of government which depended entirely on his personal authority and survival to work, shielding him from assasination from power-hungry advisors, officials, and admirals (who would have no legitimacy and no way to obtain it should they try to sieze power) and give responsible statesmen who might want to be rid of him for the good of the people pause, since the implosion of the Empire following Palpatine's death was predictable and almost certainly killed more innocent people than the New Order did (never mind when the Yuuzhan Vong showed up).

This theory makes perfect sense when you consider there was no single second in command below him. Vader carried no actual military rank and could only have been part of the military chain of command on Palpatine's special commission, and at least as of ANH, he was inferior in authority to Tarkin. The Moffs were equal in rank, the Grand Admirals had no rank within the bureaucracy, and his inner circle of advisors did not, IIRC, have any actual rank within the military or bureaucratic chains of command and were too busy plotting against each other to plot against Palpatine anyway. The government was divided into competing entities with overlapping responsibilities, and the one agency in charge of overseeing everything, COMPNOR, was legally an NGO that only exercised power over the government because anyone who was anyone in the Imperial bureaucracy was also a COMPNOR member.

The Empire was designed, in my opinion, specifically to tear itself apart without Palpatine's cult of personality to hold it together. Palpatine never actually planned on dying, but setting up the New Order to die with him if he ever did was a pretty good insurance policy, beloved of dictators throughout history. In the end, it took an organization with nothing to lose if the Empire fell apart to kill him, despite the number of ruthless, unscrupulous, power-hungry Moffs and admirals who could have done it.

Interesting, I never thought of it that way.

RedImperator wrote:The Senate could have named a successor. After all, legally Palpatine's powers were granted to him by the Senate.

Actually the office of Emperor appears to have been formed coincident with the ratification of the Imperial Charter (that's right, the Galactic Empire is a constitutional despotate ). However, the Charter does not give a means by which the Emperor is chosen.

The closest thing to a legal succession of Palpatine would've required an amendment to the Charter by the Imperial member worlds to create the constitutional mechanism for succession which would be subsequently carried out. (However, whether or not the Charter permits for an amendment process independent of the Emperor is unknown).

The Galactic Empire's existing form as of Palpatine's bodily death in Return of the Jedi allowed no legal means of his replacement.

RedImperator wrote:How much influence they actually would have had is debatable, but they could have leant a measure of legitimacy to one of the warlords, or quickly promoted one of the Moffs or Grand Admirals.

The Galactic Empire was firmly in civilian control until Madame Director of Intelligence Ysanne Isard launched her coup d'état. Direct precedent for the Empire would have probably resulted in a civilian being elevated to Grand Moff. The most visible symbols of Palpatine's rule were Sate Pestage and Ars Dangor. They would be among the most likely suspects, with the other members of the Emperor's Ruling Circle also possible. Military rule of the Empire did not become normal or expected until GADM Thrawn assumed the office of Supreme Commander.

RedImperator wrote:It might not have prevented the civil war, but it could have ameliorated it (especially when Thrawn showed up). It also, paradoxically, could have PREVENTED the Rebel Alliance from declaring itself the New Republic, since technically, the Old Republic still existed and Mon Mothma's band of merry men would have had no legitimacy.

The Galactic Republic is consitutionally distinct from the Galactic Empire.

RedImperator wrote:As for Rebel sympathsizers, there's no reason Palpatine couldn't have arranged for their replacement or expulsion from the Senate, or their marginalization within it. In my opinion, he didn't dissolve the Senate because it was full of sympathy for the Rebels or because he didn't want any organization with even pseudo-autonomy and authority around to challenge him. Rather, he did it because removing the Senate was the last step towards engineering a system of government which depended entirely on his personal authority and survival to work, shielding him from assasination from power-hungry advisors, officials, and admirals (who would have no legitimacy and no way to obtain it should they try to sieze power) and give responsible statesmen who might want to be rid of him for the good of the people pause, since the implosion of the Empire following Palpatine's death was predictable and almost certainly killed more innocent people than the New Order did (never mind when the Yuuzhan Vong showed up).

All correct and agreed. Palpatine intentionally designed the Empire so it could not and would not function without him.

RedImperator wrote:This theory makes perfect sense when you consider there was no single second in command below him. Vader carried no actual military rank and could only have been part of the military chain of command on Palpatine's special commission, and at least as of ANH, he was inferior in authority to Tarkin. The Moffs were equal in rank, the Grand Admirals had no rank within the bureaucracy, and his inner circle of advisors did not, IIRC, have any actual rank within the military or bureaucratic chains of command and were too busy plotting against each other to plot against Palpatine anyway. The government was divided into competing entities with overlapping responsibilities, and the one agency in charge of overseeing everything, COMPNOR, was legally an NGO that only exercised power over the government because anyone who was anyone in the Imperial bureaucracy was also a COMPNOR member.

All correct. However, COMPNOR is a paramilitary apparatus with similarities to Germany's National Socialists and the Soviet's Communists in many respects. It is a quasi-bureaucractic wing of the government, and also serves education, policy-direction, and military roles. It is, above all, a political party. Its officials are civilian. I don't know if I'd compare it to an NGO.

Exactly what you describe occurred following Endor.

RedImperator wrote:The Empire was designed, in my opinion, specifically to tear itself apart without Palpatine's cult of personality to hold it together. Palpatine never actually planned on dying, but setting up the New Order to die with him if he ever did was a pretty good insurance policy, beloved of dictators throughout history. In the end, it took an organization with nothing to lose if the Empire fell apart to kill him, despite the number of ruthless, unscrupulous, power-hungry Moffs and admirals who could have done it.

You're right, of course.

There were a few attempts at military coups d'état during Palpatine's reign, namely by Grand Moff Trachta and Grand Admiral Demetrius Zaarin. There was the other Admiral from TIE Fighter who mutinied, and at least one Moff who became "too independent." Much of the Galactic Empire enormous strategic fleets (with such examples as the kind of forces arrayed about Byss during Operation SHADOW HAND and Admiral Giel's armada) probably with the express intent of squashing and occupying worlds in classic warfare (unlike the irregular combat favored by the Alliance to Restore the Republic), which probably includes rebellious Moffs or Grand Moffs, overly independent aristocratic worlds like Alderaan, overly ambitious top naval brass, and the Succession Worlds described in the Rebel Alliance Sourcebook.