When was the last time you watched TPM?

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-08-28 08:07am

Well, I borrowed a copy of the DVD from a friend (have decided to wait for the re-release which I'm told by the store will coincide with the OT DVD release)- I must say, it wasn't nearly as poor as I remember it. Yes, the shit and fart jokes/ slapstick + Jar Jar was bad, and Jake Lloyd's acting could still use some work, but damn if I didn't enjoy everything else regardless.

Maybe if you really, really hated TPM, and you haven't seen it in like ... three or four years like me, you should watch it again. Might be surprised.

With that out of the way, some thoughts having watched it again:

(edited out some thoughts about what Sidious' plan was, since Mike covered it so well in his TPM Revelations page that I haven't read in years)

What made the Jedi Council change its mind after Qui-Gon's death to allow Anakin to be trained? (a decision with which Yoda personally disagreed)

Just a random thought as to how well the peak shielding rating of the Acclamator works as a concept (i.e. that the rating given is the maximum amount of energy the shields can dump back out without difficulty, rather than the power level fo the shield, which is impossible because the reactor doesn't supply that much)- when Anakin's N-1 takes a hit in the battle at the Droid Control Ship, he says "everything's overheated", and the shields have failed.

I forgot all about Darth Maul's Sith Infiltrator- it would be really cool if we see that ship again in Episode III ... maybe Anakin could give it a whirl (would be cooler than him going off to do very bad things in that modded Jedi Starfighter, IMO)

Do you think Obi-Wan really was ready to become a Jedi Knight as Qui-Gon said? Or was he just pushing Obi-Wan on because he was desperate to train Anakin?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-08-28 08:24am

Like I've said before ...for me the film wan't bad...it was when they had either Anakin or Jar-Jar...they tried doing "Look at them!!!!!"

Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan actually were very good and gave us a look at the bygone days.

The Jedi Council in many ways was just as because literally it gave us an idea of really how much changed, as well as the Senate and what not.

The Neimodians failed as villains but then again they were meant to, and Maul...Maul had an air about him that gave a great physical stick for Sidious mental foreplay onto the galaxy.

The only reason I could see the Council changing their minds is that in the end perhaps they saw something in Qui-Gon's words and figured to honor what seemed to be his last wish(aside from Obi-Wan becoming a Jedi).

It was perhaps a rash descion(not using any sense of foreknowledge we have) but if he was right, the gain was far greater in their eyes then the possible loss.

And it's possible like Anakin Obi-Wan was ready physically but not mentally, but Qui-gon perhaps figued, Obi-Wan would only learn once he was on his own.

Admiral_Handsome · Post by **Admiral_Handsome** » 2004-08-28 11:08am

I never really hated the movie, but I never considered it to be any good either.

Every other scene was just an excuse to have shit loads of effects going on in the background. The dialogue was poorly done, and the characters were lifeless. I really don't get it why Lucas and co. don't give the Jedi some personality. The Obiwan in Ep. 4,5 and 6 was charismatic. He smiled and was jolly, and when the scene required it, he could be serious too. The Obiwan in the new movies is just like a robot. Qui Gon gin or whatever his name is, is the most miserable character I have seen in a long time. Would it have hurt for him to smile or crack a wise comment here or there?

Yoda in Ep. 5 and 6 is exactly what I like. He is both serious AND humorous. I don't see why the earlier films have such different ideas about what the Jedi should be like. No one ever said Jedi can't have a laugh, but the way these movies are being made, it looks that way. The Jedi are boring SoBs. The droids around them have more charisma in my opinion.

I hope the Jedi develop their sense of humor for the next movie, but I doubt it. I loved the special effects, but the script was poorly done. None of the actors are annoying or bad actors, its just that Lucas or whoerever is directing is doing a piss poor job. Bring back the ESB director immediately if you ask me. I'm really hoping the third movie will be the best one.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2004-08-28 12:08pm

Every other scene was just an excuse to have shit loads of effects going on in the background.

Well, one thing I really, really like about the Star Wars movies is the dynamics in the backgrounds. Every time you watch the movies it's possible to spot something that you never noticed before.

Now back to topic. The last time I watched TPM was on DVD last Sunday. I guess I'm one of the few people here that actually liked Jar Jar, except for the stupid fart joke and the stepping in goo.

About Obi-Wan, I'm sure that Qui-Gon felt that Obi-Wan was ready to become a Jedi, but perhaps his judgment slipped a bit when he demanded that Obi-Wan must train Anakin. About the training of Anakin. While some members of the Jedi Council initally refused to believe that it was a Sith Lord that attacked Qui-Gon on Tatooine, they must have been convinced after Obi-Wan killed Darth Maul since Obi-Wan recieved the title of Jedi Knight. As I figure, some of the more influential members of the Council must have become convinced that this also could mean that the old prophecy was indeed true and that Qui-Gon was correct when he claimed that Anakin was the chosen one. Clearly, Yoda is not convinced, and I don't think that Obi-Wan was either. He wanted to train Anakin because he had made the pledge to Qui-Gon which I think is great for continuity in the Star Wars Saga. In TESB and ROTJ, Yoda and Obi-Wan is trying to convince Luke that Vader must be killed. However, Luke thinks that Vader can be saved, and this makes it possible for Anakin to reemerge and fulfill the old prophecy.
That's my 2 cents (or two Swedish öre). As I see it, TPM is a full fledged Star Wars movie. It isn't flawless, but which movie is?

Mark S · Post by **Mark S** » 2004-08-28 12:24pm

I watched it again just last week. I always like the movie though there are some parts that boggle my mind why Lucas put them in. It was like he couldn't make up his mind what he wanted. He put a little kid in as the hero and gave him a cartoon sidekick and says that he made it as a kids movie, yet he put a huge Macievellian plot in the background and showed parlementry procedure. I though Jar Jar was bad, I thought the whole Trade Federation angle was bad, and I thought making Anakin 10 years old was bad but I still liked the movie.

Was Obi Wan ready? No. Look at him in the final battle with Maul. He has no control over his anger.

Why did the council change their minds? I think it was because they sensed that Obi Wan was going to train Anakin whether they concented or not. Better to have a hand in the training and a close eye on the situation than to have a loose canon.

Admiral_Handsome · Post by **Admiral_Handsome** » 2004-08-28 12:40pm

Well, one thing I really, really like about the Star Wars movies is the dynamics in the backgrounds. Every time you watch the movies it's possible to spot something that you never noticed before.

I agree that the effects are spectacular. But, I get the feeling that more thought went into making the scenes look right, rather than making them sound and act right. The level of effects in Episodes 3,4 and 5 is perfect. Maybe Lucas and co. could have done the entire prequals with limited effects, so that they would be forced to make the dialogue better. Only then should they have gone over the movies and added some effects just before they were released.

Was Obi Wan ready? No. Look at him in the final battle with Maul. He has no control over his anger.

Are you serious? I would have thought that the fact Darth Maul ended up in two pieces was proof of Obiwans readiness.

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2004-08-28 12:50pm

When it was in theaters. The second day it was out, actually.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2004-08-28 12:55pm

Not so much that it was a bad film, but it was such a disapointment that there is some spite towards it. AotC was much better, but still a disapointment.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-08-28 12:58pm

I last watched it back in May, I think.

Meest · Post by **Meest** » 2004-08-28 01:01pm

Admiral_Handsome wrote:I agree that the effects are spectacular. But, I get the feeling that more thought went into making the scenes look right, rather than making them sound and act right. The level of effects in Episodes 3,4 and 5 is perfect. Maybe Lucas and co. could have done the entire prequals with limited effects, so that they would be forced to make the dialogue better. Only then should they have gone over the movies and added some effects just before they were released.

Watch some of the Webdocs on the official site, Lucas' directing in horrible. That and now with his pure digital filmmaking setup, all of the primary set people aren't even on the set, he's just huddling with his yes-men and me-too'n assistants. "Uh.... that looked ok, cut" is the extent of his directing, caught once him saying "You yeah, step back a little maybe, yeah a little more, ok action!" Just brutal. Also think the actors have relationship with him that's still too scared to offer any improv of the dialogue and scenes, but that's still his fault heh.

Also think there was fluff at times when no fluff was needed, get to some more story please, so many establishing shots, oooh Naboo cityscape, we get the idea its big and pretty. Just seems like we are getting rough works as he experiments with what he can get away with effects wise, the audience aren't beta testers

That being said there's far worse movies that do the same thing and badly. Star wars has redeemable qualities, he just needs to hammer on those points again.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-28 01:36pm

What made the Jedi Council change its mind after Qui-Gon's death to allow Anakin to be trained? (a decision with which Yoda personally disagreed)

Could that possibly be because he exhibited enough raw Force talent to torpedo the control ship's reactor without even knowing what the hell he was doing, thus exhibiting amazing Force power? Nah, couldn't be...

Mark S · Post by **Mark S** » 2004-08-28 01:42pm

[quote="Admiral_Handsome]

Was Obi Wan ready? No. Look at him in the final battle with Maul. He has no control over his anger.

Are you serious? I would have thought that the fact Darth Maul ended up in two pieces was proof of Obiwans readiness.[/quote]

Just because he beat Maul in combat doesn't necessarily mean he's ready to be a full Jedi. He gave in to his anger at that point and was on full attack mode. That is not the act of a Jedi. Look at ROTJ; Luke became a full Jedi because he DIDN'T kill Vader.

Mark S · Post by **Mark S** » 2004-08-28 01:44pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Could that possibly be because he exhibited enough raw Force talent to torpedo the control ship's reactor without even knowing what the hell he was doing, thus exhibiting amazing Force power? Nah, couldn't be...

They already knew he was that strong in the Force when they rejected him the first time.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-08-28 01:48pm

Mark S wrote:
Admiral_Handsome wrote:
Was Obi Wan ready? No. Look at him in the final battle with Maul. He has no control over his anger.
Are you serious? I would have thought that the fact Darth Maul ended up in two pieces was proof of Obiwans readiness.
Just because he beat Maul in combat doesn't necessarily mean he's ready to be a full Jedi. He gave in to his anger at that point and was on full attack mode. That is not the act of a Jedi. Look at ROTJ; Luke became a full Jedi because he DIDN'T kill Vader.

He bacme a saelf-declared Jedi, we have no idea if the Jedi council would have promoted him becuase of it or not.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2004-08-28 01:57pm

I saw it again the last time it aired on Fox. Probably six months ago.

I still think it sucks, but mostly because of the plot and acting. Jar Jar is just an irritant.

Admiral_Handsome · Post by **Admiral_Handsome** » 2004-08-28 02:01pm

Watch some of the Webdocs on the official site, Lucas' directing in horrible.

Thanks, I will look at those right away

You know what really drives me crazy in these new movies? I mean REALLY crazy?!?
Its that damn princess from Naboo. Every other scene she has a new hair style new makeup and new clothes. Who the hell is funding her expensive lifestyle? She must get through 100 dresses per day. What a spoilt bratt!

Admiral_Handsome · Post by **Admiral_Handsome** » 2004-08-28 02:11pm

Just because he beat Maul in combat doesn't necessarily mean he's ready to be a full Jedi. He gave in to his anger at that point and was on full attack mode. That is not the act of a Jedi. Look at ROTJ; Luke became a full Jedi because he DIDN'T kill Vader.

I can see what your saying but I disagree. In TPM Obi had just witnessed Qui gon getting his ass kicked. It was clear that if he didn't defend himself, then he would end up like Qui gon...dead! So he had no choice but to kill Maul.

In ROTJ Luke made the right decision. The Emperor was trying to provoke him, so Luke didn't give him what he wanted.

By the way, let me point out that Darth Vader WAS a Jedi and he DID fight the Emperor and killed him. Are you seriously saying Vader should have stood by like a pacafist and done nothing? Look at the good he did. He killed the Emperor and this strengthened the Rebel alliance and he also redeemed himself in the eyes of the other Jedi.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2004-08-28 02:36pm

Mark S wrote: Just because he beat Maul in combat doesn't necessarily mean he's ready to be a full Jedi. He gave in to his anger at that point and was on full attack mode. That is not the act of a Jedi. Look at ROTJ; Luke became a full Jedi because he DIDN'T kill Vader.

I think that the move he uses to defeat Maul is the reason he should be considered ready. At that moment he had to calm himself enough to be able to use the Force to grab Qui-Gon's lightsaber so it would meet his jump at just the right time for him to use it against Maul.

He had to do all of this after seeing his master killed and getting his ass kicked because he lost his temper. In a sense he passed a trial. It wasn't so much that he defeated Maul it's what he had to overcome in himself inorder to defeat Maul.

Anyway, I watched TPM either last week or the week before that. I still rather like it although there is a lot of cringe worthy stuff in it which I mentioned in the recent thread.

I still find some of the stuff with the droids to be a head scratcher. All of the droids are controlled by the ship but there are ranks within the droids, and stuff that is told to one droid is not relayed to them all via the control ship. I suppose that could be some compartmentalization due to the Trade Federation's paranoia about losing control, but I think the droid army would have worked better if they were less goofy.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-08-28 10:12pm

Crazedwraith wrote:
Mark S wrote:Just because he beat Maul in combat doesn't necessarily mean he's ready to be a full Jedi. He gave in to his anger at that point and was on full attack mode. That is not the act of a Jedi. Look at ROTJ; Luke became a full Jedi because he DIDN'T kill Vader.
He bacme a saelf-declared Jedi, we have no idea if the Jedi council would have promoted him becuase of it or not.

You mean Yoda saying "No more training do you require; already know that which you need" has no meaning? Yoda being a former member of the Jedi council and all. What about "After I am gone, last of the Jedi will you be." Straight out of the horse's mouth.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-08-28 11:39pm

I watched it 2 and a half weeks ago. I still like it. One of my favorite scense in all of Star Wars is when the Trade Federation invades. The entire sequance before it with the Queen and losing communications all the way up to the droids entering Theed (though I don't like the Gungan parts, any of them).

President Sharky · Post by **President Sharky** » 2004-08-29 12:03am

You know, I've always found the Neimoidians to be hilarious villains. It must be their complete and utter stupidity

Also, the first meeting between Watto and Qui-Gon at the junkshop is great, especially the "credits will do fine" part.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-08-29 12:18am

Well I watched it for the first time back in 2001 and living in a country far from US I was immune to talk of Jar Jar sucking. So I liked the film a lot. Then I decided to give the original triology a try and was blown away. TPM is not my favorite Star Wars film but if I had not watched I would not have seen the OT.

Damaramu · Post by **Damaramu** » 2004-08-29 03:04am

The last time I watched my TPM dvd was about a year ago.

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2004-08-29 05:01am

Christmas, when it was on the Tv, as part of the showallfiveinarowathon. which they have everyother year

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2004-08-29 06:47am

Christmas isn't christmas without a star wars movie. Just like new years day is a mandatory James Bond movie day. Tis tradition ye uncouth heathen